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Post by Tony on Nov 27, 2014 14:09:24 GMT -5
You had a good post until this part- then you lost me (I am not a kool-aid drinker)
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Post by buffalo butt on Nov 27, 2014 17:19:23 GMT -5
You had a good post until this part- then you lost me (I am not a kool-aid drinker) He drinks so much Siena koolaid he's turning into the koolaid man
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Post by SaintsFan on Nov 27, 2014 20:11:59 GMT -5
Good post - Not sure what Saintsfans point is—over last 30 years Siena has had more success than any program in the MAAC – more NCAA wins, More NIT wins and yeah a CBI championship—get a kick out of those who brush it off--- if it was so easy to win CBI why hasn’t other MAAC team won the event? And yeah like other mids Siena has had its down years—21-9 is pretty good and agreed program is on the upswing, with no losing seasons on the horizon. Jimmy is in year two of rebuilding the program from one of the worst coaches in MAAC history. I think Saintsfan is the Grinch and with holiday season coming up in a foul mood Maybe that's the problem. .. the front office looks at a 30 yr window. I look at them being 1-2 in their last 3 hires with Jimmy TBD. One great win. .. two horrible losses
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Nov 27, 2014 20:49:49 GMT -5
Nice fluff thanks to Fran. .. but a solid shit bread for that sandwich with Lanier and mitch. More losing than winning over that stretch with a good taste of some of the worst basketball in all of D1. Nope the last 10 years (not counting the first three games of this season) Siena is 173-152 (.532) - 6 winning seasons, 4 losing seasons not great but not "more losing than winning either - those are the #facts As bad as Lanier was he went to two postseasons (not factored into the 10 year period). Yes we've has a few memorable years But over 10 we're a pubic hair above 500. That's mediocre in my book!
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Nov 28, 2014 0:25:02 GMT -5
Good post - Not sure what Saintsfans point is—over last 30 years Siena has had more success than any program in the MAAC – more NCAA wins, More NIT wins and yeah a CBI championship—get a kick out of those who brush it off--- if it was so easy to win CBI why hasn’t other MAAC team won the event? And yeah like other mids Siena has had its down years—21-9 is pretty good and agreed program is on the upswing, with no losing seasons on the horizon. Jimmy is in year two of rebuilding the program from one of the worst coaches in MAAC history. I think Saintsfan is the Grinch and with holiday season coming up in a foul mood Maybe that's the problem. .. the front office looks at a 30 yr window. I look at them being 1-2 in their last 3 hires with Jimmy TBD. One great win. .. two horrible losses you're tough, my friend. but we need a few "fair" critics like yourself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 6:38:39 GMT -5
Good post - Not sure what Saintsfans point is—over last 30 years Siena has had more success than any program in the MAAC – more NCAA wins, More NIT wins and yeah a CBI championship—get a kick out of those who brush it off--- if it was so easy to win CBI why hasn’t other MAAC team won the event? And yeah like other mids Siena has had its down years—21-9 is pretty good and agreed program is on the upswing, with no losing seasons on the horizon. Jimmy is in year two of rebuilding the program from one of the worst coaches in MAAC history. I think Saintsfan is the Grinch and with holiday season coming up in a foul mood Maybe that's the problem. .. the front office looks at a 30 yr window. I look at them being 1-2 in their last 3 hires with Jimmy TBD. One great win. .. two horrible losses Nothing wrong with being a realist.
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glen
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Post by glen on Nov 28, 2014 8:00:34 GMT -5
Gorvy nailed it. If a coach posts 2 (especially his first 2) losing season in a row then chances are they should be let go. Good coaches win. Siena's problem is that they negotiate sh*t contracts such that they can't buy the guy out. That's just f*ing stupid. Look, this isn't St. Peter's. Siena can get great coaches and ones that are confident enough in their ability that they don't need a golden parachute. The fact that we keep these incompetent coaches as long as we do is squarely on the admins. It is hard to guess how good a coach can be but hindsight is 20/20. After 2 years there's no need to guess. I'll note too that especially if the school is looking at hard times financially, there is even more pressure to not get screwed by a bad hire.
What simply stuns me is that given Mitch's past one would think that he'd have been on a very short leash. At this point I have to say that as a season ticket holder of 25+ years, my tolerance for this crap has run out. I'm very pleased with Jimmy so far but at some point he's going to leave. If they follow Jimmy up with a bad hire and keep him they can keep my tickets too because I'm not flushing $3K (3 seasons @ $1K) while they sort themselves out.
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siena70
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Post by siena70 on Nov 28, 2014 10:06:19 GMT -5
I love this thread. It tells me that the majority of posters are realists and not goody two shoes apologists. I have been harping on this Board for a couple of years for the appointment of a Committee of at least eight knowledgible people outside of the Siena Administration to vote on the replacement of the Men's basketball coach.
Fr. Mullen and D'Arg wanted to power to make the not only the appointment but also the contract terms.
The hiring of Mitch ( a former loser at FF) and his ridiculous $1M +, 4 year contract was the result of rampant nepotism at Siena. See most recently the addition of John Svec's wife as assistant women's lacrosse coach. I'm sure that if I spent the time I could find plenty of other " nepotic hires, promotions, etc.". I cringe when I think that the Mitch hire could of cost us our best chance for admission to the A-10.
Sure , only the insiders know the real cost of the Mitch hire.
Despite D'Arg's shortcomings and apparently lack of interest by higher ranked schools to hire him an AD, Fr. Mullen rewards him ( probably for not throwing Mullen under the bus for Mitch's hire) with a promotion to VP and a member of the President's Cabinet.
The only honesty an transparency is here on this Board.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Nov 28, 2014 11:14:44 GMT -5
I love this thread. It tells me that the majority of posters are realists and not goody two shoes apologists. I have been harping on this Board for a couple of years for the appointment of a Committee of at least eight knowledgible people outside of the Siena Administration to vote on the replacement of the Men's basketball coach. There is a committee that exists for that very purpose. I don't believe it's public though.
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glen
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Post by glen on Nov 28, 2014 12:14:09 GMT -5
There is a selection committee but this is a 2 part problem. 1) selection 2) contract
One could make a (weak) case that Mitch provided consistency and continuity. I'll buy that to some degree as many on this board were calling for stability at the time. OK. But, please, for the love of all that is holy, don't give the guy a $1M deal. That should have been a year-to-year "you're out if you suck" deal. Mitch had WAY too many red flags. No way he should've gotten that contract. Hell, I would do it for that kind of money.
I don't believe the committee has a role after selection.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Nov 28, 2014 12:58:23 GMT -5
There is a selection committee but this is a 2 part problem. 1) selection 2) contract One could make a (weak) case that Mitch provided consistency and continuity. I'll buy that to some degree as many on this board were calling for stability at the time. OK. But, please, for the love of all that is holy, don't give the guy a $1M deal. That should have been a year-to-year "you're out if you suck" deal. Mitch had WAY too many red flags. No way he should've gotten that contract. Hell, I would do it for that kind of money. I don't believe the committee has a role after selection. Do you think a 4 yr/$1 mill deal is over the top for Siena? 4 yr deals are pretty standard. So now $$$$. What would you give to the coach of the best program in the conference?? I don't 250per is crazy at all. In fact it's probably too low.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Nov 28, 2014 13:48:27 GMT -5
There is a selection committee but this is a 2 part problem. 1) selection 2) contract One could make a (weak) case that Mitch provided consistency and continuity. I'll buy that to some degree as many on this board were calling for stability at the time. OK. But, please, for the love of all that is holy, don't give the guy a $1M deal. That should have been a year-to-year "you're out if you suck" deal. Mitch had WAY too many red flags. No way he should've gotten that contract. Hell, I would do it for that kind of money. I don't believe the committee has a role after selection. Do you think a 4 yr/$1 mill deal is over the top for Siena? 4 yr deals are pretty standard. So now $$$$. What would you give to the coach of the best program in the conference?? I don't 250per is crazy at all. In fact it's probably too low. With the red flags, I think it might have been wise to offer $250k per year but only for say two yrs (the two consecutive losing seasons rule some are referring to). Reevaluate it and offer a new contract, that or simply $250K per ye but with only 1-yr term. I know it's not supposed to work that way and hindsight is 20/20 but that's the only thing I could have seen done differently (other than not hire him I first place). That would have saved the school the 4th $250k for no services performed. He still would have cost $500-$750 for 2-3 yrs. I just don't think Siena operates that way. They'll probable continue to offer new BB coaches 3 or 4 yr deals with buyouts.
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Post by Tony on Nov 28, 2014 14:12:37 GMT -5
There is a selection committee but this is a 2 part problem. 1) selection 2) contract One could make a (weak) case that Mitch provided consistency and continuity. I'll buy that to some degree as many on this board were calling for stability at the time. OK. But, please, for the love of all that is holy, don't give the guy a $1M deal. That should have been a year-to-year "you're out if you suck" deal. Mitch had WAY too many red flags. No way he should've gotten that contract. Hell, I would do it for that kind of money. I don't believe the committee has a role after selection. Do you think a 4 yr/$1 mill deal is over the top for Siena? 4 yr deals are pretty standard. So now $$$$. What would you give to the coach of the best program in the conference?? I don't 250per is crazy at all. In fact it's probably too low. \ Salary was fine guaranteeing it for 4 years -- with a coach that already ran one MAAC program into the crapper is another-- Mitch should have been given a 4 year contract- with 1 year guaranteed and maybe a 100K buyout after that. If he was successful you give the guy a better deal, if he doesn't work out get rid of him after 1 year like Holy Cross did a few years ago with Sean Kearny( who Cross let go after 1 season ) it was fairly apparent it wasn't going to work out after the first year Mitch was at Siena I understand the reasoning for hiring Mutch- the continuity etc,, plus Mitch was bullshitting big time, on how his style of play,schedule etc... and again our AD sat by and did nothing because he had already given Mitch a guaranteed 4 year deal. I've said for a long time Siena will never have any continuity in coaching position until they get a real AD
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Nov 28, 2014 15:10:06 GMT -5
No one gets a 2-yr deal. That never happens. So let's admit a 4-yr deal is the norm. If there was any concerns/questions on the hire, you definitely don't guarantee the contract. Then I would have layered the money over the 4 years (200, 225, 250 and 275). Package worth $975K, school can get out (after poor performance) after 2 years, and only losing $425K.
Think Mitch turns that down? No chance. Where else is he going? Iowa? Go ahead. I highly doubt he'd be the #1 assistant at a Big 10 school. He might be on the staff for around the same money. We all might have won if the contract was drawn up like that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 15:25:48 GMT -5
Since Siena paid Mitch less than half of what they were paying Fran and received a buy-out from Iowa, they actually saved about $1million. That's why he was hired and why D'argenio should be fired.
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