lmnop22
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Post by lmnop22 on Mar 16, 2013 17:19:08 GMT -5
Siena will always be a revolving door position and if it continues to be a re-volving door with coaches moving onto the top tier conferences then that means Siena is winning and people are making great hires....we have a ceiling for what we can afford to pay whether we are in the MAAC or in the A10...that's jus the business
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Post by section2 on Mar 16, 2013 18:02:49 GMT -5
There is no ceiling on what Siena can pay. They draw fans, they get corporate sponsorships, they will get a new TV deal if they move up. Alumni donations will increase, especially if they start putting out some high payed pro athletes.
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lmnop22
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Post by lmnop22 on Mar 16, 2013 18:15:02 GMT -5
Yes there is a ceiling...they aren't joining the Big 10 here....Xavier has a ceiling, Butler has a celing, VCU has a ceiling.....You want a young up and coming coach like Toole and Pitino...you want success...you get success you have those type of guys for 3-5 years and be thankful for what they do....your crazy if you think Siena is an end all job for those type of guys...those Stevens, Fews and Smarts don't come along all the time and at one point in time those guys will make their moves for their dream jobs
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Post by Tony on Mar 16, 2013 18:28:27 GMT -5
I wouldn't say Xavier loses their coach "regularly". They've had less coaches than Siena in the last 20 years. 7 head coaches in last 40 years at Xavier. Please what are you lately the board contrarian? In last 20 years Xavier has lost Pete Gillen, hired Skip Prosser, lost him and hired Thad Matta , lost him and hired Sean Miller, lost him and hired Chris Mack- five coaches in last 20 years is losing your coach regularly. What Xavier has been able to do is successfully replace coaches with good coaches. Butler has had 4 coaches, VCU 5.. Heck Kansas lost their coach to UNC
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Post by Tony on Mar 16, 2013 18:29:38 GMT -5
Siena will always be a revolving door position and if it continues to be a re-volving door with coaches moving onto the top tier conferences then that means Siena is winning and people are making great hires....we have a ceiling for what we can afford to pay whether we are in the MAAC or in the A10...that's jus the business exactly right- the key is making successful hires. Siena has not been able to do that to this point
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Post by grascandunk on Mar 16, 2013 18:37:16 GMT -5
I just have to wonder if we as doomed to always have a down cycle after losing a winning coach. If I'm an up an comer that sees Siena as a 3 year stepping stone to power conference head coaching job, I wouldn't touch Siena with a 10 foot pole after a run like Fran's. You can only mess that up, not much opportunity for you to look good. It'd only after Siena stinks it up for a few seasons that I'd want this job.
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lmnop22
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Post by lmnop22 on Mar 16, 2013 18:39:56 GMT -5
You kidding me...your talking about people who want to be at the top of the business...you look at that as an opportunity to continue success because obviously there are resources to be successful...Fran had a great run, but if you are a type A personality coach like many of these guys are, you say there is more to be done and I can do it and then move on to the place that allows me a chance at millions and a national championship....
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Post by Tony on Mar 16, 2013 18:42:01 GMT -5
I just have to wonder if we as doomed to always have a down cycle after losing a winning coach. If I'm an up an comer that sees Siena as a 3 year stepping stone to power conference head coaching job, I wouldn't touch Siena with a 10 foot pole after a run like Fran's. You can only mess that up, not much opportunity for you to look good. It'd only after Siena stinks it up for a few seasons that I'd want this job. what successful mid majors do is play whatever style works for them- doesn't matter who coaches Butler they play the same way. Same with VCU Capel had them humming. He gets hired away and they hire Grant- who builds on what Capel does , they lose Grant and hire Shaka. You dont see successful programs drastically change their style from coach to coach- if you are going to coach at Butler you coach a certain way, at Xavier or VCU a certain way- hell even Vermont has been able to replace successful coaches with more successful coaches- so it can be done
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Post by grascandunk on Mar 16, 2013 18:48:02 GMT -5
I just have to wonder if we as doomed to always have a down cycle after losing a winning coach. If I'm an up an comer that sees Siena as a 3 year stepping stone to power conference head coaching job, I wouldn't touch Siena with a 10 foot pole after a run like Fran's. You can only mess that up, not much opportunity for you to look good. It'd only after Siena stinks it up for a few seasons that I'd want this job. what successful mid majors do is play whatever style works for them- doesn't matter who coaches Butler they play the same way. Same with VCU Capel had them humming. He gets hired away and they hire Grant- who builds on what Capel does , they lose Grant and hire Shaka. You dont see successful programs drastically change their style from coach to coach- if you are going to coach at Butler you coach a certain way, at Xavier or VCU a certain way- hell even Vermont has been able to replace successful coaches with more successful coaches- so it can be done Does it really matter when Fran jumps ship just before the bottom falls out from a personnel perspective? Why does it matter to stay consistent if the new coach is always recruiting from scratch?
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Mar 16, 2013 18:51:21 GMT -5
If Fran had stayed the bottom wouldn't have dropped out--- he already had Basabe who did a pretty good job in the Big Ten. I agree with Tony-- if we had a set style the new coach could come in right away and have players that know how to run the system-- that is how you maintain consistency across multiple coaches. The Wrecker said he was going to do that but he lied.
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Post by Tony on Mar 16, 2013 18:54:25 GMT -5
[ Does it really matter when Fran jumps ship just before the bottom falls out from a personnel perspective? Why does it matter to stay consistent if the new coach is always recruiting from scratch? Bottom wasn't falling out when Fran left..Siena made a bad hire... if they had hired a decent coach, they step back a bit first year ( win 18 to 20 games) new coach gets some players in and we are back off to the races. In addition being a poor "in game" coach, Mitch couldn't recruit..once again several other programs lose their coach and dont skip a beat-- key is making good hires. Up to this point Siena has not been able to follow up one good hire with another and to be frank it has held the program back
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Post by section2 on Mar 16, 2013 19:01:45 GMT -5
I wouldn't say Xavier loses their coach "regularly". They've had less coaches than Siena in the last 20 years. 7 head coaches in last 40 years at Xavier. Please what are you lately the board contrarian? In last 20 years Xavier has lost Pete Gillen, hired Skip Prosser, lost him and hired Thad Matta , lost him and hired Sean Miller, lost him and hired Chris Mack- five coaches in last 20 years is losing your coach regularly. What Xavier has been able to do is successfully replace coaches with good coaches. Butler has had 4 coaches, VCU 5.. Heck Kansas lost their coach to UNC How many schools haven't had 5 or more coaches in the last 20 years? It's normal, most schools change coaches. Call me anything you want, you're the so call " moderator". Just ban me for knowing what is common in college basketball.
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Post by grascandunk on Mar 16, 2013 19:11:01 GMT -5
If Fran had stayed the bottom wouldn't have dropped out--- he already had Basabe who did a pretty good job in the Big Ten. I agree with Tony-- if we had a set style the new coach could come in right away and have players that know how to run the system-- that is how you maintain consistency across multiple coaches. The Wrecker said he was going to do that but he lied. But Fran DID leave and so did his best recruit. Combine that with graduating your 3 best players and I'd say the bottom fell out. I didn't mean to imply that Fran wasn't going to maintain if he stayed. But he left and so did his recruiting. We had Rossiter Jackson and a bunch of question marks. To me, you can build around that with most any style you want. What advantage would they have by sticking with a possessions type game?
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Post by Tony on Mar 16, 2013 19:14:43 GMT -5
so wait now Xavier does lose coaches regularly? LOL beautiful
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Mar 16, 2013 19:40:52 GMT -5
If Fran had stayed the bottom wouldn't have dropped out--- he already had Basabe who did a pretty good job in the Big Ten. I agree with Tony-- if we had a set style the new coach could come in right away and have players that know how to run the system-- that is how you maintain consistency across multiple coaches. The Wrecker said he was going to do that but he lied. But Fran DID leave and so did his best recruit. Combine that with graduating your 3 best players and I'd say the bottom fell out. I didn't mean to imply that Fran wasn't going to maintain if he stayed. But he left and so did his recruiting. We had Rossiter Jackson and a bunch of question marks. To me, you can build around that with most any style you want. What advantage would they have by sticking with a possessions type game? Well, the new guy (won't say who it would have been to save some people from a heart attack) still would have had three all maac starters on his roster with NCAA tourney experience. He would have used Breeden the way he should have been used from day one, even if it didn't end up working out in the long run. He would have tried to bring in an impact player, but even if not, that first team would have at least won 18 games and likely played somewhere in the post season. From there it would have been off and "running". As it is, the team lost 7 games by 3 points or less. I know it is hard to see because the Wrecker could make even the most polished diamond look like dog Shit, but that is how the new coach would have used possessions to his advantage. Maintain consistency in style of play through solid decision making when selecting head coaches and the players don't regress and recruiting is easier-- I believe that is how the elite mid majors are reloading instead of rebuilding across multple coaches.
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