iskout
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Post by iskout on Apr 9, 2021 9:35:26 GMT -5
Who is the second linch pin? Manny who graduated & wants to earn $$$ or King who on a good roster would have been 7th or 8th man? Dunno about that one. He had his weaknesses, but frankly, King would have been at worst 6th man on most of the rosters in the MAAC over the last decade or so.
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Post by dalydoseofhoops on Apr 9, 2021 9:39:56 GMT -5
How’s this for a wild prediction...King Rice calls his old teammate Hubert Davis up and convinces him to offer Pickett to come to UNC. From your mouth to God’s ears.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Apr 9, 2021 9:40:35 GMT -5
Fordham is a DEAD END job and a coaching graveyard for those who don’t succeed. Carm isn’t stupid, he’s way too young to take a job with so much risk and so little gain. Plus that job wasn’t paying anywhere near what was rumored! He squeezed Siena for a contract bump, end of story! If you don’t think the NCAA rule change was 100% responsible for JP’s decision you aren’t watching what’s currently going on around D1 hoops! Who is the second linch pin? Manny who graduated & wants to earn $$$ or King who on a good roster would have been 7th or 8th man? We've known about the transfer rule for months, but all indications up to 50+ hours ago were that Jalen was staying. So clearly something other than "what's happening in college basketball" is at work here. Jordan is the second linchpin player. It's disingenuous of you to suddenly suggest he wasn't important to the team when he clearly was for the last 2 years. He WAS on a good roster and he was an important part of it. His hypothetical role on another team is irrelevant - he was a linchpin player for Siena. Sorry don’t buy it. Using your logic, Carm’s interview was over 3 weeks ago and made public. If JP was so upset why didn’t he leave then, he waits until Carm finalized his contract with Siena to announce his entry into the portal weeks after? He’s getting advice from “trusted” advisors, pretty much the way it goes! His HS coach seems awfully chatty!
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joesiena
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Post by joesiena on Apr 9, 2021 9:44:09 GMT -5
Apparently, it isn't the end of the story at all. If they offered him enough, he would have taken it. He clearly didn't think it was a dead end job or he wouldn't have applied and interviewed twice. There was more than a contract squeeze going on. I agree that Carm isn't stupid. Stupid would be openly and publicly courting another job, getting deep into the process, all to pull the rug out at the end because you really think it's a dead end job. Make no mistake - if the money and offer were there, he would have gone to Fordham. And that sends a message to players. You can interview as much as asked, especially when you’re also negotiating with your current employer. He would have been under no obligation to accept any offer from Fordham. It’s not uncommon for candidates to turn down offers after mult interviews. I mean this as an honest question, not to troll: how do you know it's a common practice? I'd be surprised if it happened in the majority of cases, just because it's far more common that the candidate is eliminated by the school first. I do not believe for a second that Carm would not have taken the job if the money was there, whether that was the original goal or not. Once an employee has decided they are willing to listen, there is always the chance they're leaving. It is NEVER just a ploy. And that's all well and good. I agree that it's a dead end job and he's better off staying. But the pursuit has ramifications and it's fair to ask if it had something to do with Jalen's decision. I'm not blaming or criticizing either person - they have their rights and have both earned their opportunities. But something here isn't right with the program.
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Post by saintsfan12 on Apr 9, 2021 9:44:25 GMT -5
Welp, that's it for me and college basketball
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joesiena
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Post by joesiena on Apr 9, 2021 9:51:53 GMT -5
We've known about the transfer rule for months, but all indications up to 50+ hours ago were that Jalen was staying. So clearly something other than "what's happening in college basketball" is at work here. Jordan is the second linchpin player. It's disingenuous of you to suddenly suggest he wasn't important to the team when he clearly was for the last 2 years. He WAS on a good roster and he was an important part of it. His hypothetical role on another team is irrelevant - he was a linchpin player for Siena. Sorry don’t buy it. Using your logic, Carm’s interview was over 3 weeks ago and made public. If JP was so upset why didn’t he leave then, he waits until Carm finalized his contract with Siena to announce his entry into the portal weeks after? He’s getting advice from “trusted” advisors, pretty much the way it goes! His HS coach seems awfully chatty! To your point,if it was only Fordham, why three weeks later? But to mine, if it's only the transfer rule or only the people whispering in his ear, why now and not years or months ago? To be clear, I'm not saying it's the definite reason. I'm saying Carm's interest in Fordham may very well have been a factor and we can't eliminate the possibility that is playing a role in players leaving. I'm saying it complicates retention and needs to be considered in mitigation attempts.
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Post by siena2003 on Apr 9, 2021 9:54:27 GMT -5
Loyalty to what? I don't get what you think he should be loyal to? 1. The TEAM 2. Siena College 3 Fans ..
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Apr 9, 2021 9:57:19 GMT -5
You can interview as much as asked, especially when you’re also negotiating with your current employer. He would have been under no obligation to accept any offer from Fordham. It’s not uncommon for candidates to turn down offers after mult interviews. I mean this as an honest question, not to troll: how do you know it's a common practice? I'd be surprised if it happened in the majority of cases, just because it's far more common that the candidate is eliminated by the school first. I do not believe for a second that Carm would not have taken the job if the money was there, whether that was the original goal or not. Once an employee has decided they are willing to listen, there is always the chance they're leaving. It is NEVER just a ploy. And that's all well and good. I agree that it's a dead end job and he's better off staying. But the pursuit has ramifications and it's fair to ask if it had something to do with Jalen's decision. I'm not blaming or criticizing either person - they have their rights and have both earned their opportunities. But something here isn't right with the program. There’s a systemic transfer problem throughout the entire D1 basketball system. You have almost 1300 plus kids entering. Manny leaving for graduation and to earn a living is a non issue. Donald going to Georgetown (a great opportunity, great educational institution and a step up in competition) is understandable, where he had a nice season btw. Harris was facing his 4th stint in isolation quarantined, i think his transfer (back home btw) is understandable. King I don’t really get, but he sounded like he had personal issues. I can only take him at his word. Tate, has he even surfaced? Sounds like RI had him pegged right. Picket will most likely go P6, do you blame him? Let’s see how this plays out before we imply Rome is burning. Covid caused a lot of unique situations, it’s more to blame than anything else I can think of... I have no doubt our roster stays more intact without it!
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hardwood
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Post by hardwood on Apr 9, 2021 10:05:00 GMT -5
I mean this as an honest question, not to troll: how do you know it's a common practice? I'd be surprised if it happened in the majority of cases, just because it's far more common that the candidate is eliminated by the school first. I do not believe for a second that Carm would not have taken the job if the money was there, whether that was the original goal or not. Once an employee has decided they are willing to listen, there is always the chance they're leaving. It is NEVER just a ploy. And that's all well and good. I agree that it's a dead end job and he's better off staying. But the pursuit has ramifications and it's fair to ask if it had something to do with Jalen's decision. I'm not blaming or criticizing either person - they have their rights and have both earned their opportunities. But something here isn't right with the program. There’s a systematic transfer problem throughout the entire D1 basketball system. You have almost 1300 plus kids entering. Manny leaving for graduation and to earn a living is a non issue. Donald going to Georgetown (a great opportunity, great educational institution and a step up in competition) is understandable, where he had a nice season btw. Harris was facing his 4th stint in isolation quarantined, i think his transfer (back home btw) is understandable. King I don’t really get, but he sounded like he had personal issues. I can only take him at his word. Tate, has he even surfaced? Sounds like RI had him pegged right. Picket will most likely go P6, do you blame him? Let’s see how this plays out before we imply Rome is burning. Covid caused a lot of unique situations, it’s to blame more than anything. I think our roster stays more intact without it! Rome is definitely burning, the question is how good is the fire department.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Apr 9, 2021 10:14:56 GMT -5
There’s a systematic transfer problem throughout the entire D1 basketball system. You have almost 1300 plus kids entering. Manny leaving for graduation and to earn a living is a non issue. Donald going to Georgetown (a great opportunity, great educational institution and a step up in competition) is understandable, where he had a nice season btw. Harris was facing his 4th stint in isolation quarantined, i think his transfer (back home btw) is understandable. King I don’t really get, but he sounded like he had personal issues. I can only take him at his word. Tate, has he even surfaced? Sounds like RI had him pegged right. Picket will most likely go P6, do you blame him? Let’s see how this plays out before we imply Rome is burning. Covid caused a lot of unique situations, it’s to blame more than anything. I think our roster stays more intact without it! Rome is definitely burning, the question is how good is the fire department. Lol, we’ll find out. It’s all Carm’s guys going forward.
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Post by sienasaint3 on Apr 9, 2021 10:19:20 GMT -5
Loyalty to what? I don't get what you think he should be loyal to? 1. The TEAM 2. Siena College 3 Fans .. 1. The team would replace him if they had a better option at the drop of a hat 2. See number 1 3. What did you do to earn player loyalty? If you think its buying tickets well how much of that money goes to Pickett? Spoiler alert $0 There is 0 reason to complain that a college player isn't "loyal".
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Post by sienasaint3 on Apr 9, 2021 10:21:58 GMT -5
There’s a systematic transfer problem throughout the entire D1 basketball system. You have almost 1300 plus kids entering. Manny leaving for graduation and to earn a living is a non issue. Donald going to Georgetown (a great opportunity, great educational institution and a step up in competition) is understandable, where he had a nice season btw. Harris was facing his 4th stint in isolation quarantined, i think his transfer (back home btw) is understandable. King I don’t really get, but he sounded like he had personal issues. I can only take him at his word. Tate, has he even surfaced? Sounds like RI had him pegged right. Picket will most likely go P6, do you blame him? Let’s see how this plays out before we imply Rome is burning. Covid caused a lot of unique situations, it’s to blame more than anything. I think our roster stays more intact without it! Rome is definitely burning, the question is how good is the fire department. This mass transfer exodus will subside in the future but everyone is transferring now because it is year 1. Next year less players will be eligible for the free transfer so less players will enter the portal. Mid-major basketball will be different going forward. Stud freshman and sophomores will transfer to bigger programs, while dud freshman and sophomores will be transferring down from P5 to mid-majors where they are more suited to cut it. Its not a death sentence, but doubtful 4 year players exist anymore anywhere.
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joesiena
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Post by joesiena on Apr 9, 2021 10:53:06 GMT -5
There’s a systematic transfer problem throughout the entire D1 basketball system. You have almost 1300 plus kids entering. Manny leaving for graduation and to earn a living is a non issue. Donald going to Georgetown (a great opportunity, great educational institution and a step up in competition) is understandable, where he had a nice season btw. Harris was facing his 4th stint in isolation quarantined, i think his transfer (back home btw) is understandable. King I don’t really get, but he sounded like he had personal issues. I can only take him at his word. Tate, has he even surfaced? Sounds like RI had him pegged right. Picket will most likely go P6, do you blame him? Let’s see how this plays out before we imply Rome is burning. Covid caused a lot of unique situations, it’s to blame more than anything. I think our roster stays more intact without it! Rome is definitely burning, the question is how good is the fire department. I don't disagree that there is a systematic transfer problem in D1. I don't disagree with your assertion that Pickett is transferring because he is now able to. But that implies that the only thing keeping him at Siena was the previous set of rules. That was not the consensus before, and it means that the other things Siena prides itself on as retention drivers are not competitive any longer: the degree, the Franciscan tradition, the beautiful campus, the locale, the family atmosphere, etc. That particular mix has failed when challenged this year. Look at the list of impact players that left and why - heck, even our coach gave it a go! None of what Siena offers stopped any of that, and that is somewhat surprising and definitely flies in the face of our self-image. We simply aren't competitive any more, judging by these results, and that's bigger than a rule change or COVID. It's fair to question all of this, including Carm's role. Our best player in a decade - the face of the program - is leaving for another school. That's a pretty big problem that we shouldn't write off or quickly try to attribute to something out of our control. Hopefully, things will settle and this will be an unfortunate blip.
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hardwood
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Post by hardwood on Apr 9, 2021 11:20:45 GMT -5
Rome is definitely burning, the question is how good is the fire department. I don't disagree that there is a systematic transfer problem in D1. I don't disagree with your assertion that Pickett is transferring because he is now able to. But that implies that the only thing keeping him at Siena was the previous set of rules. That was not the consensus before, and it means that the other things Siena prides itself on as retention drivers are not competitive any longer: the degree, the Franciscan tradition, the beautiful campus, the locale, the family atmosphere, etc. That particular mix has failed when challenged this year. Look at the list of impact players that left and why - heck, even our coach gave it a go! None of what Siena offers stopped any of that, and that is somewhat surprising and definitely flies in the face of our self-image. We simply aren't competitive any more, judging by these results, and that's bigger than a rule change or COVID. It's fair to question all of this, including Carm's role. Our best player in a decade - the face of the program - is leaving for another school. That's a pretty big problem that we shouldn't write off or quickly try to attribute to something out of our control. Hopefully, things will settle and this will be an unfortunate blip. “That was not the consensus before, and it means that the other things Siena prides itself on as retention drivers are not competitive any longer: the degree, the Franciscan tradition, the beautiful campus, the locale, the family atmosphere, etc.” These days are gone, forever. This is a problem in society not just the college campus. Me, me, me is the new order. You see it in the workplace too. Maybe we’re seeing a return to 80’s greed with a new century twist.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Apr 9, 2021 11:28:14 GMT -5
Why couldnt Pickett leave last year? He wouldn't have had to sit. Did Carey sit? Did Stormo sit? He was coming off a POY year, and would've been a hot commodity.
Players are just like coaches with their version of "coachspeak." The answer to a lot of your questions ARE right in front of your face, but some of you refuse to see it.
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