gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 20, 2013 19:37:31 GMT -5
4 guys basically owned by siena so no surprise. I guess small time thinking is the norm around here, sigh...
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Post by section2 on Feb 20, 2013 19:43:00 GMT -5
4 guys basically owned by siena so no surprise. I guess small time thinking is the norm around here, sigh... The 4 guys article does not say that at all. The link is in another thread, go read it. It does say the move would be difficult. We all know that. |
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 20, 2013 20:14:23 GMT -5
You are right it was one of the better 4 guys articles. I just think this should come down to whether the catholic 7 wants siena, a big question mark) rather than does siena want the catholic 7. The stuff behind the scenes that we don't know about is what kind of deal is being discussed, if any.
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 20, 2013 20:17:50 GMT -5
4 guys basically owned by siena so no surprise. I guess small time thinking is the norm around here, sigh... The 4 guys article does not say that at all. The link is in another thread, go read it. It does say the move would be difficult. We all know that. one thing stood out as incorrect however, there is no such maac exit fee currently enforceable.............they may however be thinking about it now that Loyola MD is heading to Patriot League...had this been already on the books, the Hounds weren't leaving.........so Siena at this point is not held to any such amount should they decide to bolt or perhaps they can now serve notice to the MAAC that they are in fact "thinking" of a possible move within a few years, hence giving them full notice!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by DelmartianEd on Feb 20, 2013 20:49:51 GMT -5
Question. If the Catholic 7 proposes unequal revenue distribution where the 7 get double the money of the 5, let's suppose that St. Louis, Xavier, and Dayton jump in anyways, but Butler and Richmond say no thanks and decide to stay with VCU and St. Joe's in the A-10. Now Detroit and Siena get our invites. Should we take it?
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Post by diamonddog on Feb 20, 2013 21:13:21 GMT -5
4 guys basically owned by siena so no surprise. I guess small time thinking is the norm around here, sigh... I really wish somebody around here would have a website or something that reports honestly what happens to Siena. It would be refreshing NOT to have something owned by/have interest from Siena that gives opinion or something, like 4 guys (check Siena's athletic website- there is a link.) I guess this forum does that, but I would like a website with real, honest opinions... Anybody seen the movie "Network"? If not, watch it- shows how others influence their opinions on a person. |
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Post by MTS on Feb 20, 2013 21:19:05 GMT -5
To Ed's question: Yes. If Siena can get to a better league I do it. Diamonddog - this is the site that tells it like it is for Siena. It's not a blog but posters essentially serve as "mini" talking points. We also have posters with good insight and information. I'm sure when Mitch gets canned and when the new coach is named this board will have it first and then the TU blog with pick up on it  |
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 20, 2013 21:20:03 GMT -5
That is where I was going with my previous post. Obviously those types of situations are a different scenario and would have to be evaluated with all the facts at hand. Such an arrangement would have to be temporary, otherwise it is not really an invite. We'd still be more like a Cinderella, only getting to go to part of the ball and only then on the wicked sister's terms. In your scenario Siena would be on equal footing with 5 schools who decided to jump in--- so theoretically if it was a good deal for them it would be a good deal for Siena. On the other hand if Siena got a better deal with the A-10 that included Butler Richmond and VCU and St. Joe's that would have to be looked at too. I've always said that the big conference schools have all the advantages--- more home games on their terms, better tv, easier access to recruits-- now here is a potential chance for Siena to move up in stature, maybe its last chance given the circumstances. Some pain can be expected, but if a commitment is made, it would be worth it in the long run. What do you think?
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Post by knicksaint on Feb 20, 2013 22:56:55 GMT -5
If the opportunity exists to go to the C12 or whatever it may be called, and I would urge Siena to be proactive and seek a place at the table, I think the College would be making a very smart decision to join with the rest of the group. I absolutely believe that a significant part of the appeal of Providence, one of the colleges with which Siena competes most fiercely for students, to high school students considering applying for admission is that it has played in the Big East for the past 30+ years. With all due respect to Providence and its alums, and my comments is not that of a Siena alum, there is no way to justify financially paying close the $15,000 more per year to send your son or daughter to Providence rathervthan Siena. Couldn't some part of the cost to moving to the C12be covered by an increase in the cost of a Siena education. I would certainly answer in the affirmative.
I know that Villanova's national championship in 1985 produced a huge spike in applications. Over the past 10-15 years, Siena has done a good job of raising its academic profile, and that effort will become even more effective with the expansion of the College's footprint that would accompany such a move.
To those who contend that Siena could not compete athletically, I submit you are wrongwe when we have had quality coaches, we have attracted quality recruits. How much easier would it be to recruit players like Melsahn Basabe, Chirs Jones, Byron Allen et al if our schedule included 16 or so games vs. the C12? How much easier would it be to attract and retain a quality coach?
I don't know how serious the interest is in Siena, but if I were the President, the AD or a Trustee, I would be leading the charge to wrangle an invite and make it work financially.
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Post by airwolf on Feb 21, 2013 6:39:27 GMT -5
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glen
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Post by glen on Feb 21, 2013 7:39:54 GMT -5
My opinion: C7, A10 or something else...we need to get out of NEC/MAAC. Demographically and in other ways the MAAC is the perfect league for Siena. Unfortunately, the MAAC really doesn't take hoop all that seriously. The schools generally have much smaller budgets and play in much smaller venues. Had the MAAC tried to draw in St. Joes and LaSalle, etc. I'd be all in but they went with Monmouth and Quinnipiac. Really!?!?!
In fairness the C7 schools/alums look upon Siena with the same disdain that I look upon Quinnipiac. I get that. We do however have 3 NCAA first round wins since '89 (not counting Lanier's PIG win). We have also generally (except for Hewitts appearance) represented ourselves and our league quite well by being competitive even in losing. That *should* count for something.
I will say that I do fear ending up like PC, SJU, SHU, etc. and not sniffing the tournament again if we do move up. That said, college hoops is all about coaching. Get a good coach and the team wins. Period.
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glen
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Post by glen on Feb 21, 2013 7:56:19 GMT -5
As for coaches: Think Xavier. Look, Butler and Gonzaga are the rare exception where the coach is great and wants to stay. Most coaches, like most players, want to go as "high" as they can. Everyone keeps saying "pay a million" and he'll stay. Xavier pays > $1M and they lose their coach all the time. Then people say "go A10 and and he'll stay" Xavier is in the A10 and pays > $1M and they lose their guy. We need to acccept that this is life and unless we're truly blessed we'll not come across a Gonzaga/Butler situation any time soon. What we need is a repeatable methodology for identifying a great coach...dare I say it...like Xavier.
Until we nail down that methodology we'd be foolish to max our budget on day 1 with a new coach. Minimally we need to be able to afford to quickly buy the guy out if he lays an egg. Waiting 3 years is no good. We need to be prepared to drop the hammer at the end of year 2. The last thing we want is a "Ruland" situation where we blow our load on the coach and then we're stuck (unless of course we're absolutely 100% certain the guy is a rock start - in which case we can't afford him to begin with).
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 21, 2013 8:02:58 GMT -5
exactly Glen. Year one, even.
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 21, 2013 8:57:07 GMT -5
The 4 guys article does not say that at all. The link is in another thread, go read it. It does say the move would be difficult. We all know that. one thing stood out as incorrect however, there is no such maac exit fee currently enforceable.............they may however be thinking about it now that Loyola MD is heading to Patriot League...had this been already on the books, the Hounds weren't leaving.........so Siena at this point is not held to any such amount should they decide to bolt or perhaps they can now serve notice to the MAAC that they are in fact "thinking" of a possible move within a few years, hence giving them full notice!!!!!!!!! can also add, that no way in heck does Monmouth & Quinny enter our league with that held over there head if they decide to leave at some point.............that type exit fee would make up at least 1/2 or 1/3 of a schools basketball budget on our level...........pipe dream for that to be agreed upon or enacted!!!!!!!!!! |
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siena95
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Post by siena95 on Feb 22, 2013 10:09:08 GMT -5
Question. If the Catholic 7 proposes unequal revenue distribution where the 7 get double the money of the 5, let's suppose that St. Louis, Xavier, and Dayton jump in anyways, but Butler and Richmond say no thanks and decide to stay with VCU and St. Joe's in the A-10. Now Detroit and Siena get our invites. Should we take it? no... siena would be well behind all those schools to begin with, the only thing that would boost them up quicker is the promise of added revenue... now if you hamstring the revenue to HALF of what the other teams will receive, Siena would be lucky to even survive |
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