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Post by section2 on Feb 20, 2013 10:43:54 GMT -5
Siena's budget isn't in the ballpark? Thank God, because if they were spending as much as Big East schools, it would be a tragedy. I'm not sure why you think a jump from $12 million to $16-18 million is impossible. I'd be willing to bet the " Catholic 7" spending falls to near that when they leave the Big East.
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nysaint
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Post by nysaint on Feb 20, 2013 10:57:51 GMT -5
Interesting discussion about budgets and how Siena could possibly get themselves in the same ballpark as the current C-7 so they could compete. It would take vision and leadership from Siena which I’m not sure they have. I’ve always felt the 518 was completely different from most metro areas because we don’t have one large central city surrounded by suburbs. It’s a collection of small cities and most people in each city follow local teams. If you look at hockey attendance on the occasional Saturday night when RPI, Union, Albany and Glens Falls all have games - there are over 12,000 going to hockey events in the area. Same thing happens when Siena plays on the same night as UAlbany (ok, maybe 10,000). My point is that there has never been a single program or team that galvanized the entire area like possibly a Big East program would. It’s a leap of faith that they could capture that. Siena basketball is the biggest thing in the area, but what’s the ceiling for attendance and corporate sponsorship if the home schedule was Georgetown, Villanova, St. John’s Marquette etc. I would assume alumni donation would go up some, but Siena would have to be creative and capture the market. The area is very stable and is undergoing a tech explosion of jobs and capital. Tim and Mark’s banter in the TU today was so shortsighted – sure D’arg could have a bake sale and raise the money – ha ha ha. How are these other A-10 schools with budgets only slightly larger than Siena going to do it. How does the current C-7 schools do it without big time football programs? I heard Mike Francesa interview Jay Wright one time and asked him how Villanova was able to run a mom and pop corner store compared to the big box programs that had big time football – and he said they were able to do it creatively.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Feb 20, 2013 11:09:06 GMT -5
I feel so much better knowing that money = wins. I can now just cross out the entire season and put Siena down for 62% more wins than Niagara.
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Post by Tony on Feb 20, 2013 12:29:57 GMT -5
I see that Mark and Tim said the exit fee for the MAAC is 1 million bucks with less than 3 years notice? Does anyone know if that number is correct? Last I saw from the minutes of MAAC presidents meeting last May was the million exit fee was purposed and the MAAC Council of Presidents agreed that the entrance and exit fee discussion should take place after the Legal Counsel and Commissioner provides a further in-depth accounting of future conference liabilities and an analysis of the fee structures from other mid major conferences.
So according to that the exit fee is not yet in place… but maybe they had another meeting
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 14:12:38 GMT -5
It would only apply to Siena as it would be discussed and voted on as soon as the rumblings of a departure were getting loud enough. So they better save some dough.
On the other hand the cash cow would be leaving the MAAC.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Feb 20, 2013 15:25:55 GMT -5
I dont want to piss on anyone's parade...but here is a dose of reality for you guys—the purpose of the C7 schools breaking off is too stay relevant in the college landscape. They didn’t want to get stuck with programs like “Tulane” so it would be a stretch to get Siena and sell them and their 3 straight losing seasons in the MAAC to a TV network . Not to mention a PR nightmare with their members- yes Schools admins can look past a bad year or two—at Siena it goes beyond that, Siena administration is “weak” and our good and bad cycle speaks volumes of the commitment of the school. I have serious doubts Siena will even pursue a move to the A10 let alone the C7- school admins don’t have that sort of vision- or at least have never shown that in the past When has Tulane ever been "relevant?" We've been relevant, and the only reason we have "cycles" is because we don't pay the great ones to stay. We wouldn't have that problem if we made this quality jump. We aren't an easy sell right now because of Baghdad, but none of you negative guys would be saying this 3 years ago. We give Fran $5 million/5 year deal 3 years ago, he's not going anywhere.
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Post by MTS on Feb 20, 2013 15:30:10 GMT -5
I dont want to piss on anyone's parade...but here is a dose of reality for you guys—the purpose of the C7 schools breaking off is too stay relevant in the college landscape. They didn’t want to get stuck with programs like “Tulane” so it would be a stretch to get Siena and sell them and their 3 straight losing seasons in the MAAC to a TV network . Not to mention a PR nightmare with their members- yes Schools admins can look past a bad year or two—at Siena it goes beyond that, Siena administration is “weak” and our good and bad cycle speaks volumes of the commitment of the school. I have serious doubts Siena will even pursue a move to the A10 let alone the C7- school admins don’t have that sort of vision- or at least have never shown that in the past When has Tulane ever been "relevant?" We've been relevant, and the only reason we have "cycles" is because we don't pay the great ones to stay. We wouldn't have that problem if we made this quality jump. We aren't an easy sell right now because of Baghdad, but none of you negative guys would be saying this 3 years ago. We give Fran $5 million/5 year deal 3 years ago, he's not going anywhere. Siena gave Fran 8 years $4 million dollar contract..how much higher could they have gone? Siena may have gotten cheap with Deane way back but they tried pretty hard to keep Fran. Siena will never be able to pay what a BCS football power can pay. The main reason Butler and VCU were able to pay their coaches over a million dollars is the money those schools brought in from their final four runs. I love to see Siena make a statement - call up Dave Paulsen and say hey Dave we'll give you the same deal Fran McCaffery had when he left. Your wife is from Albany...come home. I can live with Cliff Warren or Jeff Neubauer but I'd love to see them shoot for the fences and to me that's Paulsen. To get him or Andy Toole Siena will have to offer a good contract. Both likely will have other schools looking at them.
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Post by airwolf on Feb 20, 2013 15:48:38 GMT -5
When has Tulane ever been "relevant?" We've been relevant, and the only reason we have "cycles" is because we don't pay the great ones to stay. We wouldn't have that problem if we made this quality jump. We aren't an easy sell right now because of Baghdad, but none of you negative guys would be saying this 3 years ago. We give Fran $5 million/5 year deal 3 years ago, he's not going anywhere. Siena gave Fran 8 years $4 million dollar contract..how much higher could they have gone? Siena may have gotten cheap with Deane way back but they tried pretty hard to keep Fran. Siena will never be able to pay what a BCS football power can pay. The main reason Butler and VCU were able to pay their coaches over a million dollars is the money those calls brought in from their final four runs. I love to see Siena make a statement - call up Dave Paulsen and say hey Dave we'll give you the same deal Fran McCaffery had when he left. Your wife is from Albany...come home. I can live with Cliff Warren or Jeff Neubauer but I'd love to see them shoot for the fences and to me that's Paulsen. Siena should not be getting guys they can " live with "- that disrepectful to the fanbase.
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siena86
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Post by siena86 on Feb 20, 2013 15:55:27 GMT -5
Siena gave Fran 8 years $4 million dollar contract..how much higher could they have gone? Siena may have gotten cheap with Deane way back but they tried pretty hard to keep Fran. Siena will never be able to pay what a BCS football power can pay. The main reason Butler and VCU were able to pay their coaches over a million dollars is the money those calls brought in from their final four runs. I love to see Siena make a statement - call up Dave Paulsen and say hey Dave we'll give you the same deal Fran McCaffery had when he left. Your wife is from Albany...come home. I can live with Cliff Warren or Jeff Neubauer but I'd love to see them shoot for the fences and to me that's Paulsen. Siena should not be getting guys they can " live with "- that disrepectful to the fanbase. And Mitch was respectful to the fan base? Throw a tarp over him and throw him out there next year since he is under contract. Respectful to the fan base? Is killing the program for decades respectful to the fan base?
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 20, 2013 16:01:26 GMT -5
need to think outside the box., meaning no prior ties to Siena...............can do better than Cliff and that's no slight on him!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Tony on Feb 20, 2013 16:37:21 GMT -5
Siena should not be getting guys they can " live with "- that disrepectful to the fanbase. And Mitch was respectful to the fan base? Throw a tarp over him and throw him out there next year since he is under contract. Respectful to the fan base? Is killing the program for decades respectful to the fan base? +1000..I feel the same way Mitch bullshited his way into the job and then torpedoed the program.. he truly is a program wrecker
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siena95
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Post by siena95 on Feb 20, 2013 16:39:24 GMT -5
I just don't understand what some people want... MTS says Siena gave fran 8 years, $4M, what more can they do... so you immediately want them to offer the most money they would have ever spent on a coach to the next guy..... i am not sure what Siena will do, but to go to your MAX amount immediately really leaves you no room to grow with said coach.... say he is your wet dream and has siena back at 20 wins next year, you don't think he will want a raise? or any coach would want one? now what do you do? well, we are paying close to $500K, maybe you can have another kid and we can send him to St Gregorys for free??? You risk losing someone pretty quick.... hey, if someone leaves in 4 years to grenner pastures so be it, but if you basically drop your pants just to get someone, you have zero room to move and zero leverage.
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Feb 20, 2013 16:46:35 GMT -5
What nobody seems to be considering is that teams leaving the Big East may need to reduce their sports budget. Siena and the A-10 schools could raise theirs slightly and be middle of the pack. Win for a couple years and raise again. It's about business. Spend money to make money. Very good point!
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 20, 2013 16:51:46 GMT -5
I just don't understand what some people want... MTS says Siena gave fran 8 years, $4M, what more can they do... so you immediately want them to offer the most money they would have ever spent on a coach to the next guy..... i am not sure what Siena will do, but to go to your MAX amount immediately really leaves you no room to grow with said coach.... say he is your wet dream and has siena back at 20 wins next year, you don't think he will want a raise? or any coach would want one? now what do you do? well, we are paying close to $500K, maybe you can have another kid and we can send him to St Gregorys for free??? You risk losing someone pretty quick.... hey, if someone leaves in 4 years to grenner pastures so be it, but if you basically drop your pants just to get someone, you have zero room to move and zero leverage. very true......but that game is played differently.............it likely isn't until the negotiation part that the salary sign off comes into play..........certainly there is a level or range that is referenced in preliminary talks, but the nitty gritty numbers happen much later in the process.............Siena should be in the position to offer what would be a substantial base and then load it with potential incentive extra's..........in as much as some here think Paulsen (and or Toole) would need to get a ton to be interested here, think again, they aren't exactly hauling in a boat load at their current jobs.............it's the whole package hoping Siena can offer that would be appealing to the candidates, which should include a very good offer back loaded with other goodies..............it may also come down to how others view where the Siena program is compared to their current situation, the expectations will be different and accountalble!!!!!!!!!
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Feb 20, 2013 19:22:20 GMT -5
4guys have a piece on their site basically laying out the budget and making a case for why Siena can't make the move. This is my response to their 'analysis'...
This is an extreme oversimplification...
Cost of real estate, labor expenses, etc are significantly higher in the major metropolitan areas. Further those teams are now attempting to compete in a football conference which bloats budgets. Finally, the attendance figures... hmmm.... please, Siena is drawing those numbers against St. Peters and Rider the impact on attendance when playing 'Nova, G'Town etc will be significant to say the least.
This is why I loved working for Governors Pataki & Bush when something made sense they ignored the naysayers and made it happen.
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