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Post by greenblood on Feb 8, 2017 18:27:27 GMT -5
Given his track record here at Siena - I'll wait to see him recruit some impact players. Probably biggest disappointment I'd had with Jimmy's time here at Siena- I knew he was so-so X and O coach- I thought with Siena's resources he would be dynamite recruiter. I've been surprised how bad a recruiter he has been. I'll be surprised once again if Jimmy is coach after next season Keeping the good kids here is my issue. I'd have liked to see how this team really did with Cole, Wormley and Kinnon in the mix. I blame him for Kinnon, not the other two. Thank you.
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bigsaintg
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Post by bigsaintg on Feb 8, 2017 18:29:01 GMT -5
Keeping the good kids here is my issue. I'd have liked to see how this team really did with Cole, Wormley and Kinnon in the mix. I blame him for Kinnon, not the other two. Thank you. I smell a group hug coming next
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 18:49:50 GMT -5
I can't begin to understand some of the recruiting strategies or game plans that I've seen the last 4 years.
At times I think there's a method to the madness but then it later gets revealed that the reason for it was completely different than what I thought.
If I were Jimmy:
JP1- I would have used more 2 shooter lineups and played Hymes more over White. Hymes played less than 20 mpg that year. JP2- Paige and WB probably would have gotten all of White's minutes. JP3- Kinnon would have played another 100 mins or so. Silas or Paige would have played over Fisher depending on Silas' turnover level. Clareth would have been told to shoot less threes or least no more early shot clock contested ones. JP4- More zone. Friday, WB, and potentially Heurter would have gotten ALL of Fisher's minutes from day 1. Richard would have assumed Oliver's role on the first day, with Wright as PG. JO, Shivers, and Smithen(depending on what I saw in practice) would all have been told not to shoot many threes. Wright and Clareth's 3 attempts would have been reigned in faster and Clareth would have been told to attack, attack, and attack the rim and not always try to avoid contact so much. I would have done everything possible to maximize the points per shot knowing the elite skill level from 2pt range in that area from last year.
Recruiting wise: Gottfried would never have been given a scholarship. I would have vetted Paige and White more to make sure they were actually guards and pushed my staff for a different type of guard altogether. Fisher never would have gotten the scholarship, as I said from day 1 that we already had 4 face up forwards in Long, Bisping, Wolfe, and WB. I would have recruited another defensive center instead. Wormley would likely not have been offered until the late period..though I would have considered him for a defensive CG role depending on how the previous recruits looked. There would be no guard on the roster that I didn't think could at least play both PG and defend or take care of the ball and shoot a three..if not all of the above. Shivers has passed the ball better than expected. But I wouldn't have foreseen that so he probably never comes.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 8, 2017 19:12:29 GMT -5
Keeping the good kids here is my issue. I'd have liked to see how this team really did with Cole, Wormley and Kinnon in the mix. I blame him for Kinnon, not the other two. You have to recruit- and keep Impact players- good coaches like to bring in 1 a year in years when you are graduating large Senior class 2 or more. Jimmy has struggled bringing in impact players. We are already less athletic than most MAAC teams, I shudder to think what next year will be like. Unless Jimmy can pull a rabbit out of his hat and recruit one or two impact players between now and end of late signing period I see no way he survives. Jimmy knew what the deal was here at Siena when he took the job- he is not going to talk his way out of this one With the way jimmy can turn over a roster it is still possible to have a "good" season next year. Unfortunately that is the best case scenario. I don't want to go through another boring lame duck season and I think it would be too expensive to make a change... the problem is I was hoping for a coach that could get us a reasonable 13 seed or better in the ncaas and I don't forsee that ever with this coach.
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Post by greenblood on Feb 8, 2017 19:37:54 GMT -5
My standards are lower. I for one hope they if get to the dance I don't want to see them slapped back to Loudonville. I don't see the former happening under this regime without major upsets. Not saying it can't happen but odds are not in their favor.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Feb 8, 2017 20:17:22 GMT -5
My standards are lower. I for one hope they if get to the dance I don't want to see them slapped back to Loudonville. So a trip to the NCAA's isn't good enough, they have to give a 2/3 seed a game, or it's not good enough. Did you really start this post out with, "My standards are lower?" lol
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Post by greenblood on Feb 8, 2017 20:33:22 GMT -5
Yes I did. I didn't say they have to give a 2/3 a game if they get there but just to squeak in by magical pixie dust in the tournament after a season of excuses like this one isn't going to grow or sustain anything in my opinion. I want to see them compete every game all season, not mail it in or be flat or not ready to play or not get along on the court or not get suspended for violating rules. I want to see them well prepared and able to switch up the game plan and match ups that aren't working. I want to see a next man up approach used in many programs to sustain levels of competency. IF that were the culture then the program might flourish and become a sustainable asset. Right now it is not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2017 20:35:59 GMT -5
So dumb. We are 11-14 hen we were picked to be this counseling sessions start taking place, then a PIP, then the door if things don't improve. I was ecstatic when I got to my hotel room, saw we were winning and then won but it was one game I may be dumb but don't care for the snarky comment dig Dave made (I.e., nice win buy the players (as if the coach had nothing to to with the game plan or AD had nothing to do with allowing Nico back)). So there's one half sdntence of praise then the rest with his agenda). I'll continue to throw praise to the team, coaches, admin, program for wins just as much as others want to emphasize the negative. I'm not saying they're wrong, that the coach, admin, players, etc all may actually suck at their jobs; but until they're replaced I cheer for them all without exception. I'm not out to determine who should go or stay, I simply cheer for who's here. You forgot the Yankee Trails driver, the Iona parking attendant, and the locker room cleaning crew - c'mon IS, don't hold back on your never ending all encompassing praise....
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nolesaint
Team Captain
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Post by nolesaint on Feb 9, 2017 7:32:45 GMT -5
Keeping the good kids here is my issue. I'd have liked to see how this team really did with Cole, Wormley and Kinnon in the mix. I blame him for Kinnon, not the other two. You have to recruit- and keep Impact players- good coaches like to bring in 1 a year in years when you are graduating large Senior class 2 or more. Jimmy has struggled bringing in impact players. We are already less athletic than most MAAC teams, I shudder to think what next year will be like. Unless Jimmy can pull a rabbit out of his hat and recruit one or two impact players between now and end of late signing period I see no way he survives. Jimmy knew what the deal was here at Siena when he took the job- he is not going to talk his way out of this one Another thing - most schools with under performing coaches know that it isn't going to workout and cut bait at the end of year three. Somebody at Siena should be held to account for taking 4-6 years before they make the change...
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Feb 9, 2017 8:13:19 GMT -5
Keeping the good kids here is my issue. I'd have liked to see how this team really did with Cole, Wormley and Kinnon in the mix. I blame him for Kinnon, not the other two. BTW I blame all 3 on Jimmy-- It wouldn’t have been a big deal losing all 3 if he hadn’t given scholarships to Gottfried, Page, White, Wolfe, WB,EF,- you have to be prepared for storm, due to Jimmy’s weak recruiting losing a kid or two is a killer. He had 4 solid senior players and he couldn’t even surround them with enough talent to have a successful season And with the current seniors playing time opening up next year, the '17 recruiting class is incredibly weak, at least on paper...
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Post by MTS on Feb 9, 2017 11:55:01 GMT -5
You have to recruit- and keep Impact players- good coaches like to bring in 1 a year in years when you are graduating large Senior class 2 or more. Jimmy has struggled bringing in impact players. We are already less athletic than most MAAC teams, I shudder to think what next year will be like. Unless Jimmy can pull a rabbit out of his hat and recruit one or two impact players between now and end of late signing period I see no way he survives. Jimmy knew what the deal was here at Siena when he took the job- he is not going to talk his way out of this one Another thing - most schools with under performing coaches know that it isn't going to workout and cut bait at the end of year three. Somebody at Siena should be held to account for taking 4-6 years before they make the change... They usually do. Beyer and Mitch both were fired after year three. Lanier got a fourth year but had an NCAA and NIT and overall winning record after three seasons. If Patsos survives to a fifth year (which looks likely) it will be unprecedented especially if he has no NCAA/NIT and a losing overall record.
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hankla
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Post by hankla on Feb 9, 2017 12:38:15 GMT -5
I can't begin to understand some of the recruiting strategies or game plans that I've seen the last 4 years. At times I think there's a method to the madness but then it later gets revealed that the reason for it was completely different than what I thought. If I were Jimmy: JP1- I would have used more 2 shooter lineups and played Hymes more over White. Hymes played less than 20 mpg that year. JP2- Paige and WB probably would have gotten all of White's minutes. JP3- Kinnon would have played another 100 mins or so. Silas or Paige would have played over Fisher depending on Silas' turnover level. Clareth would have been told to shoot less threes or least no more early shot clock contested ones. JP4- More zone. Friday, WB, and potentially Heurter would have gotten ALL of Fisher's minutes from day 1. Richard would have assumed Oliver's role on the first day, with Wright as PG. JO, Shivers, and Smithen(depending on what I saw in practice) would all have been told not to shoot many threes. Wright and Clareth's 3 attempts would have been reigned in faster and Clareth would have been told to attack, attack, and attack the rim and not always try to avoid contact so much. I would have done everything possible to maximize the points per shot knowing the elite skill level from 2pt range in that area from last year. Recruiting wise: Gottfried would never have been given a scholarship. I would have vetted Paige and White more to make sure they were actually guards and pushed my staff for a different type of guard altogether. Fisher never would have gotten the scholarship, as I said from day 1 that we already had 4 face up forwards in Long, Bisping, Wolfe, and WB. I would have recruited another defensive center instead. Wormley would likely not have been offered until the late period..though I would have considered him for a defensive CG role depending on how the previous recruits looked. There would be no guard on the roster that I didn't think could at least play both PG and defend or take care of the ball and shoot a three..if not all of the above. Shivers has passed the ball better than expected. But I wouldn't have foreseen that so he probably never comes. Reminds me of Dandy Don Meredith--"if ifs and buts were candy and nuts........."
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mjs72
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Post by mjs72 on Feb 9, 2017 12:57:34 GMT -5
Another thing - most schools with under performing coaches know that it isn't going to workout and cut bait at the end of year three. Somebody at Siena should be held to account for taking 4-6 years before they make the change... They usually do. Beyer and Mitch both were fired after year three. Lanier got a fourth year but had an NCAA and NIT and overall winning record after three seasons. If Patsos survives to a fifth year (which looks likely) it will be unprecedented especially if he has no NCAA/NIT and a losing overall record. Mike, Patsos has two 20 win seasons out of his first three and the CBI title. This year's shit storm may only be the culmination of problems from prior years but those winning years bought Jimmy the extensions so he is a different case maybe
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 9, 2017 13:04:29 GMT -5
no Siena coach has survived two consecutive losing seasons. This season would only start the clock at one if it was a losing one.
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Post by MTS on Feb 9, 2017 13:08:52 GMT -5
no Siena coach has survived two consecutive losing seasons. This season would only start the clock at one if it was a losing one. I guess technically Beyer and Mitch did as they got a third year because the two losing seasons were their first two years. Interestingly, John Griffin is the only coach at Siena to have ANY losing seasons (had 1) and not eventually get fired (in the modern era)
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