Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Apr 4, 2016 21:54:58 GMT -5
I fail to see what the big deal is with requiring kids to red shirt for 1 year when transferring schools. They do not lose a year of eligibility nor do they have to pay for school during the red shirt year. I would prefer the scholarship be for 4 or 5 years at the students option (not the schools). I think if you look at the average, regular students take closer to 5 years on average to graduate anyway. With limited exceptions, I am okay with schools not being able to block where kids transfer to. Exception would be transferring within the conference or to the same school a head coach leaves his current school to go to. . That's basically what we have now-- if the transfer rate is higher -- ( I have just seen numbers, remember the number of d1 schools have increased by about 50 schools over the past twenty or so years --- so naturally the number would increase) then perhaps something needs to change--at least studied. I don't have a huge issue with the wait year but I question it because of the max five year rule. This means it's a one shot deal for the student so if grades, injury or other issue comes up too bad. Also the school receiving the transfer loses a scholarship opportunity in the wait year-- this puts mids and lows at a disadvantage since most kids transfer down instead of up. Some spitball ideas --- optional four year guarantee scholarship in exchange for no transfers within same division-- playing time waivers written in -- one year renewable allows unlimited transfers, etc (no hard feelings for "run offs). No, the rate went up when the ncaa started bending the rules to allow hardships and graduate transfers to play immediately. It created yet another loophole to be exploited. If you make the scholarships for 4 years with the players option and no exceptions to the 1 year wait, you'll see fewer transfers because 1) kids don't want to wait and 2) schools are less likely to invest 3 years to get 2 on the court. The worst thing that could happen would be to open it up to make easier to transfer. It would absolutely kill mid majors as it would become open season (more so than it already is) on kids like Clareth. As for the 5 year rule, schools can petition for a 6th year when injuries occur which is fine. I have no problem with extending that window to 6 years. As to making it fair for the players ... I'm sorry but I believe it's a pretty good deal for a kid to get a scholarship to play D1 basketball. They go to school for free, are treated like gods on campus, get access and exposure to boosters and alum that can pay huge dividends down the line. Plus, the get to showcase themselves in an effort to further their basketball careers post college. They get to travel with the team, compete at the highest level and have life experiences that most of us only dream about. For all of that, they agree to certain rules related to their amateur status and limited ability to transfer. Sounds like a pretty good trade off to me.
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indian82
Assistant Coach
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Post by indian82 on Apr 4, 2016 21:59:20 GMT -5
Not many freshmen arrive on campus expecting significant minutes unless that is something promised during the recruiting process. I don't for a minute believe either Jimmy Paige or Kinnon would have heard such promises. Paige benefitted from his teammates requesting more PT for him last year and he played well receiving compliments even from his H C. This year he was Mr Invisible. Kinnon got minutes and played well albeit reluctant or afraid to shoot early on. He was rewarded with watching Cam get minutes while he polished the pine. All the while it is a well known fact that JP was recruiting with a credit card - read that all the ships had sailed and he was still selling cruises on Siena's Carnival line. Given all of that it is hard to swallow the "they didn't get run off" crap. Had JP really wanted Kinnon to stay and be happy he could have assigned the "walk the freshman to class" duties to someone else. JMO ! First of all, find me a game where Cam had more mins than Kinnon. Kinnon had 2.5x more mins than Cam as a frosh compared to a soph. To be fair to Cam (and I was vocal in my objection to the conditions of his signing), he still is a scholarship player. I do not hear the objections to his little PT. Granted he had little opportunities, but when he was in, he hit his shots (6-7 and 2-3 from 3). I am definitely not going to say I did not question Jimmy's (non)use of certain players. For one, I always thought Imoh could have helped us in certain situations, but I also said it would always be dependent that he not be allowed to take more than one dribble. But I blame JP for not developing him by forcing him to wear stickum. I also thought I would like to see Jimmy Paige a little more although I knew he was a 'tweener'. He's the one that baffled me the most. I would love to know if there was a back story behind him. That said, it certainly can't be said that JP was running Imoh off. And Cam, Kinnon and Paige were at the bottom of the depth chart. We only have 200 mins to give. Unless they stand out like Nico, how much time can we expect frosh and the bottom of the depth chart to get? Are the mins of our bottom 3 significantly different than the bottom 3 of most other MAAC teams?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 6:03:33 GMT -5
I82, I guess we can agree to disagree about the distribution of minutes between the two. You make some very good points and your "pure" stats are correct. My sense of the situation is based more on situational distribution of the minutes between the two, not the game totals which can be, IMO misleading, and the message that I felt was being received by Kinnon. For instance, take a game when Kinnon is used first half, plays well, scores, etc. and then stays glued to the pine second half (and I doubt it was because the "stickum" on Imoh's hands and shorts was the glue involved) and sees Cam going in for ANY minutes! Some will say that minutes are earned on the practice floor - well in the case I cited, I know they don't practice half-time, despite mrsiena's cry for FT practice! I honestly believe that the treatment of some players varies over the year influenced by the interest level seen on the recruiting trail. Previous coaches used to comment that it was a relief to get recruiting for the next year over EARLY in the current year to free up time/energy for conference play, etc. Staying in touch with later classes is not as intense as filling slots for the upcoming year. We were actively recruiting for next season when public knowledge showed zero ships available. Those indicators can't be denied and, IMO, point to running kids off. Since we are still in that "process" I'm anticipating another "I wanted to go and play more" line of bull relating to our next departure.
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melva
Freshman
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Transfer
Apr 5, 2016 6:21:05 GMT -5
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Post by melva on Apr 5, 2016 6:21:05 GMT -5
A poster said this a business and the players that perform would always play since a coaches job is on the line as far as winning games. Misspractice thank you I could not have said that better myself.
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indian82
Assistant Coach
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Post by indian82 on Apr 5, 2016 6:30:27 GMT -5
I82, I guess we can agree to disagree about the distribution of minutes between the two. You make some very good points and your "pure" stats are correct. My sense of the situation is based more on situational distribution of the minutes between the two, not the game totals which can be, IMO misleading, and the message that I felt was being received by Kinnon. For instance, take a game when Kinnon is used first half, plays well, scores, etc. and then stays glued to the pine second half (and I doubt it was because the "stickum" on Imoh's hands and shorts was the glue involved) and sees Cam going in for ANY minutes! Some will say that minutes are earned on the practice floor - well in the case I cited, I know they don't practice half-time, despite mrsiena's cry for FT practice! I honestly believe that the treatment of some players varies over the year influenced by the interest level seen on the recruiting trail. Previous coaches used to comment that it was a relief to get recruiting for the next year over EARLY in the current year to free up time/energy for conference play, etc. Staying in touch with later classes is not as intense as filling slots for the upcoming year. We were actively recruiting for next season when public knowledge showed zero ships available. Those indicators can't be denied and, IMO, point to running kids off. Since we are still in that "process" I'm anticipating another "I wanted to go and play more" line of bull relating to our next departure. Understood and I understand your argument as I already had some of my own questions on PT, but unless I know the back story I am reluctant to make that accusation.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Apr 5, 2016 6:34:29 GMT -5
A poster said this a business and the players that perform would always play since a coaches job is on the line as far as winning games. Misspractice thank you I could not have said that better myself. I still dont get your point. That implies Patsos is sabotaging himself and not putting his team in the best position to win, thus jeopardizing his job by not playing the best players. Exactly one of the reasons I disagree with your position.
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Post by billmurray on Apr 5, 2016 6:34:36 GMT -5
This just proves that you can't please everyone and that each of us sees through a different set of lens. That is what makes for a lively board.
Some want aggressive recruiting and criticize "lazy" recruiting. Some don't want current players to be "over recruited".
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OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
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Post by OneIndian on Apr 5, 2016 6:49:57 GMT -5
Can't believe there's 8 pages about a kid who wants to transfer because he would rather play significant minutes than sit. You guys are over analyzing this to death.
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melva
Freshman
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Transfer
Apr 5, 2016 6:51:49 GMT -5
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Post by melva on Apr 5, 2016 6:51:49 GMT -5
A poster said this a business and the players that perform would always play since a coaches job is on the line as far as winning games. Misspractice thank you I could not have said that better myself. I still dont get your point. That implies Patsos is sabotaging himself and not putting his team in the best position to win, thus jeopardizing his job by not playing the best players. Exactly one of the reasons I disagree with your position. The message sent by moves of coaches at times can be more cryptic than the ones I m accused of sending. I can show you stats in regards to production ESPECIALLY on the womens side particularly in regards to per/ min played that shows the best players do always play. That s the coaches choice. You may disagree with the posistion. Well what is the reason? Players getting snatched out of games when they re doing well happens in front of us all. Why?
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melva
Freshman
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Transfer
Apr 5, 2016 6:53:31 GMT -5
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Post by melva on Apr 5, 2016 6:53:31 GMT -5
The best players do NOT always play. I mean Lol I apologise
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Post by greenblood on Apr 5, 2016 6:54:40 GMT -5
I have been accused of being Melva. This post should prove that in fact I am not Melva as I have not had any time to get to only one women's game this year and quite frankly have no clue what is going on with Ali and her team. Just clarifying here, I think I'm pretty clear most of the time, and those who know me well should know that whatever I post here as my opinion would be or may have already been shared with the staff, Darg and members of the BOT. I'm an open book with nothing to hide.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Apr 5, 2016 6:55:05 GMT -5
The best players do NOT always play. I mean Lol I apologise Wow - You are all over the place.
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indian82
Assistant Coach
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Post by indian82 on Apr 5, 2016 6:56:52 GMT -5
I still dont get your point. That implies Patsos is sabotaging himself and not putting his team in the best position to win, thus jeopardizing his job by not playing the best players. Exactly one of the reasons I disagree with your position. The message sent by moves of coaches at times can be more cryptic than the ones I m accused of sending. I can show you stats in regards to production ESPECIALLY on the womens side particularly in regards to per/ min played that shows the best players do always play. That s the coaches choice. You may disagree with the posistion. Well what is the reason? Players getting snatched out of games when they re doing well happens in front of us all. Why? As your logic so clearly stated above, it's because they want to lose their jobs. Isn't it obvious?
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melva
Freshman
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Transfer
Apr 5, 2016 7:12:37 GMT -5
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Post by melva on Apr 5, 2016 7:12:37 GMT -5
I am new to this board I apologise greenblood Now that just took things too far God Bless the club!!!! I m done
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Post by greenblood on Apr 5, 2016 7:34:46 GMT -5
No worries, I too am a long term supporter of the program and the kids. It is unfortunate that there is so much to disagree on within at this point, IMHO.
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