melva
Freshman
Posts: 211
Dislikes:
|
Post by melva on Apr 4, 2016 18:34:03 GMT -5
Trust your instincts Indian. Go right ahead. I m not getting caught up in that. Lol Remember this I am not an enemy of Saints basketball. I don't believe you are either. Then why can't you say what you mean? All right Indian Kinnon decides to leave and a poster brought the players liabilities. I mentioned Imoh beforehand and the same thing happened. Kinnon replaced Imoh on the chopping block on this message board. That to me is not good and it's worse than being critical of already successful coaches. JMO
|
|
|
Post by greenblood on Apr 4, 2016 18:39:58 GMT -5
I see the exchange needed as some discussion about the rates of transfer as they relate to 'winning', and the definition of 'student/athlete'. The NCAA is a money machine. College coaches make ridiculous amounts of money on almost all levels, based on 'winning'. The machine churns because colleges have made everyone believe that increases in revenue and applications are directly related to how their major sports teams perform. I'm not so sure about that since the number of 'student athletes' at any school at any level is a small percentage of the total student body. The question then becomes is if it is good for the BCS schools is it good for the mid majors? I don't think so, but again, that is just MHO.
|
|
OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,711
Dislikes:
|
Post by OneIndian on Apr 4, 2016 18:46:34 GMT -5
There's no smoke and mirrors here, LaRose grew up a big fish in a small pond and loves the game. Evidently he wasn't happy with his role or the amount of time he felt would be available. It happens. No big deal, it just wasn't the right fit for him. I'm guessing the kid just wants to play. Can't blame him, let him get on with his life. I wish him well wherever he lands.
|
|
gorvy
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,028
Dislikes:
|
Transfer
Apr 4, 2016 19:29:06 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by gorvy on Apr 4, 2016 19:29:06 GMT -5
Good luck to kinnon. I liken this situation to Chris Delarosa -- must be something about that name. Siena like all schools are somewhat culpable --- my hope is that there is a meaningful exchange of ideas in the upcoming years between the ncaa, student athletes and coaches. I don't think cest la vie is the answer. I am truly interested in what kind of exchange you are referring to. . An exchange--- meaning a round table, a discussion, a give and take session, presumably one where all parties air their grievances with the process and see if a workable solution can be reached. A protection was placed on schools to force students to sit out a year when they are not happy. Clearly students these days are increasingly transferring despite this. On the other hand schools spend tens of thousands recruiting athletes so I can understand why the protection is there. Perhaps a middle ground is out there somewhere. I feel like I am being reasonable here, it is not just a bash patsos post (although one of the main reasons I listed as to why I didn't like him was due to transfers, no matter what the cause).
|
|
gorvy
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,028
Dislikes:
|
Post by gorvy on Apr 4, 2016 19:33:10 GMT -5
Then why can't you say what you mean? All right Indian Kinnon decides to leave and a poster brought the players liabilities. I mentioned Imoh beforehand and the same thing happened. Kinnon replaced Imoh on the chopping block on this message board. That to me is not good and it's worse than being critical of already successful coaches. JMO . This is how I feel. It amazes me how some "fans" think it is ok to be so critical of our student athlete performance, while giving free passes to coaches with million dollar contracts.
|
|
brian
Junior
Posts: 1,037
Dislikes:
|
Transfer
Apr 4, 2016 19:33:34 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by brian on Apr 4, 2016 19:33:34 GMT -5
My question would be what is the national average for non athletes transferring?
Even up at 650-700 players transferring that would represent approximately 20% of returning players transferring.
Obviously that percentage is rising, but is it unreasonable relative to the overall undergraduate student population? I don't know.
|
|
hankla
Team Captain
Posts: 1,698
Dislikes:
|
Post by hankla on Apr 4, 2016 20:01:24 GMT -5
Kinnon is a fine young man and has a great family whom I 've had the pleasure to meet at games. I wish him well. If I were the coach I would have given him more p t as several have mentioned here. I guess as a result of my youth coaching experience I would have tried to get some value out of Jimmy Paige also. Although most on this board acknowledge that transfers in D I are a way of life they are a convenient tool to attack a coach.. As I posted here the other day even St. Fran is having kids transfer and his best freshman on his team this year was a walk on. The days when we as fans could be guaranteed to root for a kid for four years are gone ironically as a result of our own desire for a winning program.
|
|
indian82
Assistant Coach
Posts: 6,450
Dislikes:
|
Post by indian82 on Apr 4, 2016 20:04:21 GMT -5
My question would be what is the national average for non athletes transferring? Even up at 650-700 players transferring that would represent approximately 20% of returning players transferring. Obviously that percentage is rising, but is it unreasonable relative to the overall undergraduate student population? I don't know. Good question. Haven't had a chance to analyze this, but just found this. There are certainly a lot of transfers. I, for one, transferred myself after my freshman year. But I smartened up and went to Siena! www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2015/07/08/more-third-college-students-transfer
|
|
Quackman
Team Captain
Posts: 2,477
Dislikes:
|
Post by Quackman on Apr 4, 2016 20:07:55 GMT -5
Small sample size but of my 6 closest friends from high school, only 2 of them graduated from the school they started at. (and one that did took 7 years) and that was in the mid 80's.
Transferring schools is not a new thing.
|
|
gorvy
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,028
Dislikes:
|
Transfer
Apr 4, 2016 20:12:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by gorvy on Apr 4, 2016 20:12:35 GMT -5
My question would be what is the national average for non athletes transferring? Even up at 650-700 players transferring that would represent approximately 20% of returning players transferring. Obviously that percentage is rising, but is it unreasonable relative to the overall undergraduate student population? I don't know. That is just the one year rate. Multiply that by three and it is more like a 47% rate. (2100/4500). The figure I have seen is 33% of incoming freshmen transfer within six years overall. I bet if you tracked the athletes over a six year period it would be even higher than 47%.
|
|
|
Post by greenblood on Apr 4, 2016 20:14:58 GMT -5
My question would be what is the national average for non athletes transferring? Even up at 650-700 players transferring that would represent approximately 20% of returning players transferring. Obviously that percentage is rising, but is it unreasonable relative to the overall undergraduate student population? I don't know. That is just the one year rate. Multiply that by three and it is more like a 47% rate. (2100/4500). The figure I have seen is 33% of incoming freshmen transfer within six years overall. I bet if you tracked the athletes over a six year period it would be even higher than 47%. I would also agree that it would be higher, but with the highest being basketball and football student athletes.
|
|
Quackman
Team Captain
Posts: 2,477
Dislikes:
|
Post by Quackman on Apr 4, 2016 20:17:01 GMT -5
I am truly interested in what kind of exchange you are referring to. . An exchange--- meaning a round table, a discussion, a give and take session, presumably one where all parties air their grievances with the process and see if a workable solution can be reached. A protection was placed on schools to force students to sit out a year when they are not happy. Clearly students these days are increasingly transferring despite this. On the other hand schools spend tens of thousands recruiting athletes so I can understand why the protection is there. Perhaps a middle ground is out there somewhere. I feel like I am being reasonable here, it is not just a bash patsos post (although one of the main reasons I listed as to why I didn't like him was due to transfers, no matter what the cause). I fail to see what the big deal is with requiring kids to red shirt for 1 year when transferring schools. They do not lose a year of eligibility nor do they have to pay for school during the red shirt year. I would prefer the scholarship be for 4 or 5 years at the students option (not the schools). I think if you look at the average, regular students take closer to 5 years on average to graduate anyway. With limited exceptions, I am okay with schools not being able to block where kids transfer to. Exception would be transferring within the conference or to the same school a head coach leaves his current school to go to.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 20:21:33 GMT -5
Not many freshmen arrive on campus expecting significant minutes unless that is something promised during the recruiting process. I don't for a minute believe either Jimmy Paige or Kinnon would have heard such promises. Paige benefitted from his teammates requesting more PT for him last year and he played well receiving compliments even from his H C. This year he was Mr Invisible. Kinnon got minutes and played well albeit reluctant or afraid to shoot early on. He was rewarded with watching Cam get minutes while he polished the pine. All the while it is a well known fact that JP was recruiting with a credit card - read that all the ships had sailed and he was still selling cruises on Siena's Carnival line. Given all of that it is hard to swallow the "they didn't get run off" crap. Had JP really wanted Kinnon to stay and be happy he could have assigned the "walk the freshman to class" duties to someone else. JMO !
|
|
|
Transfer
Apr 4, 2016 20:28:49 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by siena7127 on Apr 4, 2016 20:28:49 GMT -5
Siena soup stating transfers not done. Him stirring the pot or does it have some validity?
|
|
gorvy
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,028
Dislikes:
|
Transfer
Apr 4, 2016 21:34:57 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by gorvy on Apr 4, 2016 21:34:57 GMT -5
. An exchange--- meaning a round table, a discussion, a give and take session, presumably one where all parties air their grievances with the process and see if a workable solution can be reached. A protection was placed on schools to force students to sit out a year when they are not happy. Clearly students these days are increasingly transferring despite this. On the other hand schools spend tens of thousands recruiting athletes so I can understand why the protection is there. Perhaps a middle ground is out there somewhere. I feel like I am being reasonable here, it is not just a bash patsos post (although one of the main reasons I listed as to why I didn't like him was due to transfers, no matter what the cause). I fail to see what the big deal is with requiring kids to red shirt for 1 year when transferring schools. They do not lose a year of eligibility nor do they have to pay for school during the red shirt year. I would prefer the scholarship be for 4 or 5 years at the students option (not the schools). I think if you look at the average, regular students take closer to 5 years on average to graduate anyway. With limited exceptions, I am okay with schools not being able to block where kids transfer to. Exception would be transferring within the conference or to the same school a head coach leaves his current school to go to. . That's basically what we have now-- if the transfer rate is higher -- ( I have just seen numbers, remember the number of d1 schools have increased by about 50 schools over the past twenty or so years --- so naturally the number would increase) then perhaps something needs to change--at least studied. I don't have a huge issue with the wait year but I question it because of the max five year rule. This means it's a one shot deal for the student so if grades, injury or other issue comes up too bad. Also the school receiving the transfer loses a scholarship opportunity in the wait year-- this puts mids and lows at a disadvantage since most kids transfer down instead of up. Some spitball ideas --- optional four year guarantee scholarship in exchange for no transfers within same division-- playing time waivers written in -- one year renewable allows unlimited transfers, etc (no hard feelings for "run offs).
|
|