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Trump
Sept 24, 2015 7:32:26 GMT -5
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Post by nysaintfan on Sept 24, 2015 7:32:26 GMT -5
According to democrats when you disagree with the Aca or anything else proposed by the current president you are an obstructionist. When dems do it it is "patriotic" - according to our next president Hilary Clinton. Actually YOU just called them obstructionist. In this thread. In fact, it was because of your post that anyone is even talking about obstructionists here.
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Post by psycholojets on Sept 24, 2015 9:55:24 GMT -5
Never let facts, actions or personal statements get in the way of the overriding agenda. Everyone else is too dumb and uninformed to understand what is best.
Sent from my SM-G900P using proboards
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Deleted
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Sept 24, 2015 10:19:35 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2015 10:19:35 GMT -5
MP - how have the Repubs been obstructionist. It seems O has gotten everything he's wanted. As for bush...some guys like a little bush, some like a big bush. It's personal preference really. Glen, There are countless examples of Republican obstructionism over the last 6+ years but I will just cite two that illustrate my point. In one of the early years, the Republicans put forth a budget proposal that was, as their later actions would show, likely to be rejected by the Democrats. Threats to shut down the Government were tossed about. The Democrats opted to pass the budget proposed by the Republicans WITH NO CHANGES - either additions or deletions. The Republicans, obviously caught flat footed, proceeded to reject their own creation! As for Obamacare - every aspect of this legislation was criticized by the Republicans with absolutely no counter proposals or suggested modifications/improvements. Bottom line - the Republicans did not give a shit about the uninsured and took the position totally to oppose it. Thankfully, their actions proved wasted and the law was enacted and upheld TWICE by the Supreme Court. Since its passage countless attempts to repeal it have been put up in the House only to be defeated. How much treasure and time, time that should have been spent on the people's business, was wasted thereby obstructing the possibility of other needed legislation being negotiated and passed to solve real problems? Now, after seeing the success of the Obamacare program, the Republicans are talking about repeal and replacement. Just think, if they had a more accepting and conciliatory attitude early on, changes might have been incorporated to make a more perfect bill.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Sept 24, 2015 10:47:49 GMT -5
According to democrats when you disagree with the Aca or anything else proposed by the current president you are an obstructionist. When dems do it it is "patriotic" - according to our next president Hilary Clinton. Actually YOU just called them obstructionist. In this thread. In fact, it was because of your post that anyone is even talking about obstructionists here. I was actually repeating someone else's thoughts, I meant to put it in quotes which I did not do.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Sept 24, 2015 10:48:58 GMT -5
He is an entertainer, not a politician. People fed up with Washington have an alternative. The obstructionist GOP strategy to hobble Obama has alienated even their own and led to this. Sent from my SM-G900P using proboards Here it is. So take it easy nysaintfan.
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IndianSaint
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Sept 24, 2015 10:49:16 GMT -5
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Post by IndianSaint on Sept 24, 2015 10:49:16 GMT -5
I'd be in favor of a flat tax or even a graduated/tiered flat tax. However, it'd have to be a true tax with zero deductions/exemptions. Pay the tax on gross income (or barder-ing). Stiff penalties for cheats (like death or worse).
Say X % (even if 0%) for a determined poverty level; Some % under 10% for next defund gross income level; 10% for what ever the middle class is defined as 15% for rich/companies.
The key is zero tax credits, exemptions, deductions, etc.. Pay the tax on gross income/earnings/sales/etc..
Gov't would probably collect more money it total than they do now w/40% Corp tax but after all expenses/credits/deductions cos don't pay 40% effective rate.
Unfortunately all the tax accountants/lawyers would have to find new jobs or work for gov't auditing everyone to make sure no one's cheating on the gross numbers. If the % need to be raised ever so slightly so be it, it'll definitely be lower than the rates everyone's charged now.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Sept 24, 2015 10:51:23 GMT -5
I'd be in favor of a flat tax or even a graduated/tiered flat tax. However, it'd have to be a true tax with zero deductions/exemptions. Pay the tax on gross income (or barder-ing). Stiff penalties for cheats (like death or worse). Say X % (even if 0%) for a determined poverty level; Some % under 10% for next defund gross income level; 10% for what ever the middle class is defined as 15% for rich/companies. The key is zero tax credits, exemptions, deductions, etc.. Pay the tax on gross income/earnings/sales/etc.. Gov't would probably collect more money it total than they do now w/40% Corp tax but after all expenses/credits/deductions cos don't pay 40% effective rate. Unfortunately all the tax accountants/lawyers would have to find new jobs or work for gov't auditing everyone to make sure no one's cheating on the gross numbers. If the % need to be raised ever so slightly so be it, it'll definitely be lower than the rates everyone's charged now. This is something logical and it has been suggested, but even republicans go crazy when you talk about eliminating the mortgage tax deduction.
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IndianSaint
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Sept 24, 2015 12:53:35 GMT -5
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Post by IndianSaint on Sept 24, 2015 12:53:35 GMT -5
I'd be in favor of a flat tax or even a graduated/tiered flat tax. However, it'd have to be a true tax with zero deductions/exemptions. Pay the tax on gross income (or barder-ing). Stiff penalties for cheats (like death or worse). Say X % (even if 0%) for a determined poverty level; Some % under 10% for next defund gross income level; 10% for what ever the middle class is defined as 15% for rich/companies. The key is zero tax credits, exemptions, deductions, etc.. Pay the tax on gross income/earnings/sales/etc.. Gov't would probably collect more money it total than they do now w/40% Corp tax but after all expenses/credits/deductions cos don't pay 40% effective rate. Unfortunately all the tax accountants/lawyers would have to find new jobs or work for gov't auditing everyone to make sure no one's cheating on the gross numbers. If the % need to be raised ever so slightly so be it, it'll definitely be lower than the rates everyone's charged now. This is something logical and it has been suggested, but even republicans go crazy when you talk about eliminating the mortgage tax deduction. I don't know if people think it through or shut everything out once they hear of a deduction/exemption/credit that applies to them. Say I'm in the 28% tax bracket, that doesn't mean I pay 28% on my AGI, or that's my effective tax rate. Once I take all my deductions I'm in more like the 15-18% defective tax. Plus we only pay 28% over & above a certain dollar amt, before that were paying10 or 15% on lower ants first. Anyway, if you take away all my exemptions/deductions/credits my effective tax rate would be greater than 10 or 15 % and closer to the 20-28%. Now if there was a flat tax of 10 or 15% the gov't is basically collecting the same amt from me in total. The people who may not be paying a true higher effective rate are the top 1% and corps (due to the tax loop holes, exemptions, deduction, tax breaks, etc.). But that's JMO, I don't have the facts. But an anecdotal story, didn't Warren Buffet once say that his Sectetary pays more in taxes than he does (or her effective tax rate was higher than his)? There's something seriously wrong with that , if true. I'm all for paying my fair share but I'm not happy with all the loop holes for the wealthy (multi-millionaires and up). Sure companies & wealthy may take Hugh tax credits/deductions funding charities and creating NFPs, etc but many create those not for the better good of the country of humanity but to not pay taxes. So many time we hear of NFZps created to pay thier spouses and other relatives and not for charitable work, then they get tax breaks from it to boot. It's those illegal NFPs that give the good ones a bad rap. Beside if I had more money that wasn't taxed, I could donate more to charity even if I didn't get a tax benefit.
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IndianSaint
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Sept 24, 2015 12:56:13 GMT -5
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Post by IndianSaint on Sept 24, 2015 12:56:13 GMT -5
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glen
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Sept 24, 2015 13:10:45 GMT -5
Post by glen on Sept 24, 2015 13:10:45 GMT -5
MP - how have the Repubs been obstructionist. It seems O has gotten everything he's wanted. As for bush...some guys like a little bush, some like a big bush. It's personal preference really. Glen, There are countless examples of Republican obstructionism over the last 6+ years but I will just cite two that illustrate my point. In one of the early years, the Republicans put forth a budget proposal that was, as their later actions would show, likely to be rejected by the Democrats. Threats to shut down the Government were tossed about. The Democrats opted to pass the budget proposed by the Republicans WITH NO CHANGES - either additions or deletions. The Republicans, obviously caught flat footed, proceeded to reject their own creation! As for Obamacare - every aspect of this legislation was criticized by the Republicans with absolutely no counter proposals or suggested modifications/improvements. Bottom line - the Republicans did not give a shit about the uninsured and took the position totally to oppose it. Thankfully, their actions proved wasted and the law was enacted and upheld TWICE by the Supreme Court. Since its passage countless attempts to repeal it have been put up in the House only to be defeated. How much treasure and time, time that should have been spent on the people's business, was wasted thereby obstructing the possibility of other needed legislation being negotiated and passed to solve real problems? Now, after seeing the success of the Obamacare program, the Republicans are talking about repeal and replacement. Just think, if they had a more accepting and conciliatory attitude early on, changes might have been incorporated to make a more perfect bill. Haven't the Dems gotten pretty much everything they've wanted? I guess they did have to make the R's look stupid along the way (easy task) but I don't think the R's have actually stood in the way of much. Anything the Dem's haven't gotten was due to folks in vulnerable districts pulling out. The R's really haven't blocked anything.
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mjs72
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Sept 24, 2015 13:48:53 GMT -5
Post by mjs72 on Sept 24, 2015 13:48:53 GMT -5
Glen, R's blocked the extension of the Import/Export Bank. I'm pretty conservative, and pro-fiscal restraint, but didn't understand their position which just resulted in GE taking a bunch of jobs overseas.
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Sept 24, 2015 15:27:38 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2015 15:27:38 GMT -5
Glen, How about solving the immigration problem and work on tax reform. The Republican driven sequester Band-Aid has resulted in a deterioration of our military. President Obama's job creation plan to wisely dump money into fixing our aging infrastructure was stopped by the Republicans - they didn't want jobs to be created to restore the economy they trashed. It goes on and on. Go back and replay Mitch McConnell's speech after President Obama's election - he vowed to put a roadblock in front of every item the Democrats put forward - that's pure, unadulterated obstructionism. Yes, in spite of this, stuff got done but think what might have been accomplished in a more bipartisan environment.
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SIENA1971
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Post by SIENA1971 on Sept 24, 2015 15:41:05 GMT -5
Having a tough time supporting either parties' positions ... As I get older cynicism is taking over ... Can see why Trump, Fiorina, and Sanders look attractive to many ... My current view of politicians is that their sole purpose in life is to get re-elected.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2015 15:59:33 GMT -5
Having a tough time supporting either parties' positions ... As I get older cynicism is taking over ... Can see why Trump, Fiorina, and Sanders look attractive to many ... My current view of politicians is that their sole purpose in life is to get re-elected. Let's all hope and pray that The Donald never gets to the position where that is a purpose in his life!
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Sept 24, 2015 17:28:25 GMT -5
Glen, How about solving the immigration problem and work on tax reform. The Republican driven sequester Band-Aid has resulted in a deterioration of our military. President Obama's job creation plan to wisely dump money into fixing our aging infrastructure was stopped by the Republicans - they didn't want jobs to be created to restore the economy they trashed. It goes on and on. Go back and replay Mitch McConnell's speech after President Obama's election - he vowed to put a roadblock in front of every item the Democrats put forward - that's pure, unadulterated obstructionism. Yes, in spite of this, stuff got done but think what might have been accomplished in a more bipartisan environment. The problem is partisan folks like MP are brain washed by party loyalty and bad ideology. His idea of bipartisanship is to let everything pass without republican participation. Objectively speaking Obama created a divisive atmosphere not one of cooperation. It started day one of his administration. If you couldn't see it you're probably a democrat. Unfortunately, a lot of the poor, have nots, uninformed, and less educated tend to be dems. Not exactly a hard group of folks to manipulate, most still support Hilary- very sad.
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