Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2014 4:42:51 GMT -5
Nice find - only took you three days and you knew where to look! Counter to what your "source" says, the report does not single out Americans as the only destroyers of the earth. True, we are part of the problem, as is the balance of mankind in developed and developing countries. The report identifies the actions we, as Americans can and should take. We don't control the actions of other countries, like China, but that does not mean we can't mitigate the situation by starting here. Controlling emissions is not rocket science - the addition of scrubbers to fossile fuel burning facilities is one step towards eliminating hydrocarbons released to the atmosphere. Unfortunately, that cost of doing business responsibly would impact the profit line and is the ONLY inhibiter to companies taking action. Political contributions, at levels less than the cost of plant modifications, to Republican candidates buys their votes to kill any government regulations to tighten emission levels. |
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glen
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Post by glen on May 8, 2014 9:40:12 GMT -5
The climate is always in flux. The questions are:
1. Is it in an abnormal flux?
2. If so, what is the cause (CO2)?
3. Is man the cause of that?
1. Compared to ice ages, etc. I'd argue that we are not in an abnormal flux.
2. CO2 is a SWAG...there is some corollary data but whether it is a leading or trailing indicator isn't fully understood.
3. If CO2 is the cause, it isn't clear that man-made emissions are the driver.
Do I want a dirty planet? No. Do I want to spend billions to change something that isn't a problem? Also, No.
The pause in warming is going on 17 years now. We were told the consequences were going to be dire...20 years ago. Sorry but the models have not proven out. We just went through a really cold winter season and it looks to be a fairly cool Spring season so far. Last summer/fall was a low hurricane season. Granted, those are "weather patterns" not "climate patterns" but hey, you can't have it both ways. You can't point to a heat wave and say "see look, global warming".
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th24
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Post by th24 on May 8, 2014 10:02:16 GMT -5
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on May 8, 2014 16:46:51 GMT -5
I've read this as well. The science is not clear and in fact has been compromised as revealed by the scandals of the past. MP glosses over all of this and his retort is normally that you are a moron and an anarchist. Yesterday it was global warming, before that we were ready for another ice age, and now it is climate change! Conveniently changing the labels as the data swings back and forth. God bless Ideologues like MP, they may make loyal saints fans, but they clearly lack the objectivity that most people require in life to make rational decisions. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2014 20:57:36 GMT -5
I've read this as well. The science is not clear and in fact has been compromised as revealed by the scandals of the past. MP glosses over all of this and his retort is normally that you are a moron and an anarchist. Yesterday it was global warming, before that we were ready for another ice age, and now it is climate change! Conveniently changing the labels as the data swings back and forth. God bless Ideologues like MP, they may make loyal saints fans, but they clearly lack the objectivity that most people require in life to make rational decisions. If you can find a sentence anywhere other than this one where I used the term "anarchist" I'll give you $100. As for Mr. Coleman - yet another tv journalist weather man non-meteorologist that found an guy with big bucks to found the weather channel. Not even a member of the AMS. He obviously carries a great deal of credibility in the field. It is obvious that the entire concept of global warming is way too complex for you to even begin to understand. You are good at personal attacks but that may be the only highlight of your resume. Someone wondered, in another thread, if you had graduated from middle school - I doubt you ever went to school beyond 3rd or 4th grade. |
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Post by psycholojets on May 8, 2014 22:58:54 GMT -5
CR,
It is funny to see you call someone else an ideologue. If the foo shits...
Sent from my SPH-L710 using proboards
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2014 7:41:49 GMT -5
The climate is always in flux. The questions are: 1. Is it in an abnormal flux? 2. If so, what is the cause (CO2)? 3. Is man the cause of that? 1. Compared to ice ages, etc. I'd argue that we are not in an abnormal flux. 2. CO2 is a SWAG...there is some corollary data but whether it is a leading or trailing indicator isn't fully understood. 3. If CO2 is the cause, it isn't clear that man-made emissions are the driver. Do I want a dirty planet? No. Do I want to spend billions to change something that isn't a problem? Also, No. The pause in warming is going on 17 years now. We were told the consequences were going to be dire...20 years ago. Sorry but the models have not proven out. We just went through a really cold winter season and it looks to be a fairly cool Spring season so far. Last summer/fall was a low hurricane season. Granted, those are "weather patterns" not "climate patterns" but hey, you can't have it both ways. You can't point to a heat wave and say "see look, global warming". Glen, go to the National Geographic website and read about Climate Change. No one that I know is idiotic enough to say a single heat wave is proof of global warming any more than anyone should be idiotic enough to say a colder than normal winter is proof against it. The NG site explains the complexity of added heat to the global weather system, etc. We are now seeing those impacts on an almost daily basis around the world. CO2 in the atmosphere has increased by more than 30% since the industrial revolution. To me, that points to man and our use of fossil fuels as the likely major contributor. We can control those emissions. Since that argument does not sway you about the source, I would offer another less publicized but widely recognized. Methane gas, a product of the human waste stream (bio and garbage), exerts 20 times more greenhouse gas effect (atmospheric heat retention) than CO2 (the highest greenhouse gas levels in the atmosphere). Therefore, I offer another source of the increased greenhouse gas - the bullshit produced on a 24/7 basis by FOX News! That material actually creates secondary sources, like CellarRat and th24, who consume it directly and then add it to their own bullshit waste stream.  |
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glen
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Post by glen on May 9, 2014 13:48:11 GMT -5
...except that the per the climatogligists themselves, we aren't warming. It has paused. The models are wrong.
I can see methane being a greater insulator than CO2. So what. Cows emit more methane than cars. Maybe we should stop eating steak and drinking milk. And again, you're positing that a) CO2 is causing a problem and b) that man is the cause. It is a reasonable position but the fact that the temp is skyrocketing like we were told it would suggests that the models leave some mitigating factor out of the equation. I'd suggest we figure that out before spending billions on BS.
Volcanic activity could be at play as well. This is interesting because volcanic activity would increase green house gasses and concurrently REDUCE the temperature. Pinatubo (~1991) is said to have reduced the global temps by 1C. Apparently the sulphur dioxides reflect more heat than the GHGs keep in.
The point is the models aren't cutting it so why is everyone so keen on the this "settled science" when it is clearly anything but?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2014 14:18:07 GMT -5
...except that the per the climatogligists themselves, we aren't warming. It has paused. The models are wrong. I can see methane being a greater insulator than CO2. So what. Cows emit more methane than cars. Maybe we should stop eating steak and drinking milk. And again, you're positing that a) CO2 is causing a problem and b) that man is the cause. It is a reasonable position but the fact that the temp is skyrocketing like we were told it would suggests that the models leave some mitigating factor out of the equation. I'd suggest we figure that out before spending billions on BS. Volcanic activity could be at play as well. This is interesting because volcanic activity would increase green house gasses and concurrently REDUCE the temperature. Pinatubo (~1991) is said to have reduced the global temps by 1C. Apparently the sulphur dioxides reflect more heat than the GHGs keep in. The point is the models aren't cutting it so why is everyone so keen on the this "settled science" when it is clearly anything but? Actually volcanic ash is the cooling agent by blocking sunlight. Volcanic cooling is temporary and well recognized by the technical community as such. I guess we can agree to disagree. I'll crack a couple of Corona's and you can pass the sunscreen which, of course, you won't find a need for! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2014 5:49:54 GMT -5
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on May 10, 2014 9:36:33 GMT -5
Obtuse is the perfect word
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2014 19:39:31 GMT -5
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on May 12, 2014 6:29:40 GMT -5
Didn't even have a chance to watch this yet. What stuck out to me was the terminology here: I've heard the term 'progressive' a lot lately. It sounds so....progressive... not so liberal and much more advanced than conservative.  . Subtle. |
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glen
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Post by glen on May 12, 2014 6:52:44 GMT -5
Why is it that if one doesn't believe in the warming that isn't happening that we by default get put in the category of strip miner?
I can be pro-environment but not believe we should be wasting time on CO2 emissions. For the record I'm pro-nuke. That happens to be a zero CO2 solution but I'm pro nuke because it is the best overall solution. The new tech is melt-down proof and takes up a much smaller footprint than prior reactors. Additionally, the waste produced is less in volume and less radioactive. It isn't perfect but is reliable and produces ample power at the best price. This sure seems like a good choice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 6:56:27 GMT -5
You should listen to Stephanie Miller - Progressive radio talk show host - very informative and very entertaining - sort of the anti-Limbaugh. The Republicans/conservatives/Tea Party folks have made the term "liberal" the four letter word of today's politics. Progressive has a more positive, forward thinking slant than the unbounded liberal connotation successfully characterized by the stogy (my word) conservatives. We really don't have Republicans or Democrats anymore - when was the last time you saw either word on a campaign poster/flyer - it seems like all of today's candidates, especially the new ones, want to run unadorned by party affiliation - that only happens when they need money for their campaigns.
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. Subtle.