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Post by playerparentcoach on Jul 24, 2013 11:12:32 GMT -5
Poole is the shooter and Hymes and Wright are pg's in Patsos system..I hope Audi and Oliver get mixed in at the 2 before the two pg lineup comes into play...really dont like to see 5 footers taking moreu shots than the 6'4 shooting guard...just saying Since there is only 2 PGs on the roster they have to back each other up. The absolute most they'd play together would be 10-20 minutes. That's essentially like what a bench player/6th man would play. You always talk about not getting caught up on size and roles so this seems a bit contradictory. There are 4 shooters on this team who I think can shoot as high as 40%. Hymes is one of them, and also the most proven one. You've never seen him play so all you really know is that he's 5-8 but he also has the deepest 3 pt range in the league while being the probably the fastest. I am not doubting his ability to score...you are right I have not seen him play....Patsos says he will start at the pg so that's good enough for me...I am happy that Lavon has two good pgs to play with...one of them for 4 years.. as for the size thing you read me wrong as I am very aware of the limitations size or lack there of will bring you....big diff in your opportunities if you are 6'6 vs 6'8 if you have not proven you are skilled...and when it comes to guard play....I want my pg to distribute so a 5 footer can play that position for me.....with 3 sg's looking for time why go small if you dont have to...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2013 11:36:29 GMT -5
Since there is only 2 PGs on the roster they have to back each other up. The absolute most they'd play together would be 10-20 minutes. That's essentially like what a bench player/6th man would play. You always talk about not getting caught up on size and roles so this seems a bit contradictory. There are 4 shooters on this team who I think can shoot as high as 40%. Hymes is one of them, and also the most proven one. You've never seen him play so all you really know is that he's 5-8 but he also has the deepest 3 pt range in the league while being the probably the fastest. I am not doubting his ability to score...you are right I have not seen him play....Patsos says he will start at the pg so that's good enough for me...I am happy that Lavon has two good pgs to play with...one of them for 4 years.. as for the size thing you read me wrong as I am very aware of the limitations size or lack there of will bring you....big diff in your opportunities if you are 6'6 vs 6'8 if you have not proven you are skilled...and when it comes to guard play....I want my pg to distribute so a 5 footer can play that position for me.....with 3 sg's looking for time why go small if you dont have to... Hymes and Wright, on paper, compliment each other well. Wright is probably the better facilitator but Hymes will put a lot of pts on the board. I think Oliver and Audu have to take minutes away from those two. Not the other way around. I think Oliver can be another Poole-esque player but he's got to be healthy and prove it. Audu has to reign in the turnovers. The rest of the guards on the team are ahead of him in that regard so that's his battle. If he plays smart, his stock could jump quick because of his athleticism.
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ltf
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Post by ltf on Jul 24, 2013 11:57:31 GMT -5
It amazes me that because things are repeated often they become true, such as Hymes launching threes late in the possession. Yes that happened and it happened frequently but he also frequently launched deep threes early in the possession and in the middle of the possesion,yet noone mentions that. Also he is fast and great off the dribble drive, yet noone mentions that he NEVER, EVER saw the open man in the corner (and there was one there frequently) and noone mentions that he got stuffed more times than a bushel of peppers. And he's a major defensive liability both on the front end of a zone where he was often late getting to his man and when he got there they shot over him and in a man to man defense where his man would simple take him down low. A nice kid, a hard worker but it wasn't just the system, the kid has some major deficiencies. Wright needs to take the PG job early much like Brookins took over after the 3rd or 4th game and Moore replaced Tay Fisher after 3 or 4 games. Otherwise we are going nowhere.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2013 12:45:39 GMT -5
It amazes me that because things are repeated often they become true, such as Hymes launching threes late in the possession. Yes that happened and it happened frequently but he also frequently launched deep threes early in the possession and in the middle of the possesion,yet noone mentions that. Also he is fast and great off the dribble drive, yet noone mentions that he NEVER, EVER saw the open man in the corner (and there was one there frequently) and noone mentions that he got stuffed more times than a bushel of peppers. And he's a major defensive liability both on the front end of a zone where he was often late getting to his man and when he got there they shot over him and in a man to man defense where his man would simple take him down low. A nice kid, a hard worker but it wasn't just the system, the kid has some major deficiencies. Wright needs to take the PG job early much like Brookins took over after the 3rd or 4th game and Moore replaced Tay Fisher after 3 or 4 games. Otherwise we are going nowhere. I think you may be overstating the shooting early in the shotclock in Mitch's slowdown, feed OD system a bit. Also, I think he can be better on D than what he was at the top of the zone. Still, I think Wright actually gets 20+ minutes at PG but I think Hymes still gets his 25-30 minutes. The real question is, are we better off using Audu and Oliver, or Hymes as a shooter/scorer for that other 10-15 mins when he's not running the PG. If you had to chose who is mostly likely to put up points efficiently during that timeframe of those three, who would you pick? Based on the past, I chose Hymes until proven otherwise. At least then you have a speed and ballhandling advantage as well. In Jimmy's system, I think he takes advantage of that better than Mitch because, like I said. We're not playing 2 centers and Brookins is not around to shoot 20% and Jimmy will actually throw him in a press to utilize their speed instead of wasting it in a zone. Also, Poole is going to be floating between the 2 & 3, while Lavon will float between the 3 & 4. For all we know, Poole is only gonna be at the 2G for 10 mins a game and there could still be 10-20 mins there for Audu and Oliver even if no one gets hurt.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Jul 24, 2013 12:53:45 GMT -5
I'd like to see Hymes in the Tay Fisher role. Instant offense off the bench that when he is on sees a lot of minutes and when he is off can play a much more limited role. I am hoping that Wright is as good as I think he is and will be taking over the starting PG role from Hymes sooner rather than later.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jul 24, 2013 13:01:33 GMT -5
I am not doubting his ability to score...you are right I have not seen him play....Patsos says he will start at the pg so that's good enough for me...I am happy that Lavon has two good pgs to play with...one of them for 4 years.. as for the size thing you read me wrong as I am very aware of the limitations size or lack there of will bring you....big diff in your opportunities if you are 6'6 vs 6'8 if you have not proven you are skilled...and when it comes to guard play....I want my pg to distribute so a 5 footer can play that position for me.....with 3 sg's looking for time why go small if you dont have to... Hymes and Wright, on paper, compliment each other well. Wright is probably the better facilitator but Hymes will put a lot of pts on the board. I think Oliver and Audu have to take minutes away from those two. Not the other way around. I think Oliver can be another Poole-esque player but he's got to be healthy and prove it. Audu has to reign in the turnovers. The rest of the guards on the team are ahead of him in that regard so that's his battle. If he plays smart, his stock could jump quick because of his athleticism. We will have to agree to disagree here...not a fan of the small lineup...I only want them out there together if all else failed in the game ....not as an option in the game plan...give me Audu, Oliver, and Poole this year and add Cole next year at the 2...
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Jul 24, 2013 13:11:05 GMT -5
Hymes and Wright, on paper, compliment each other well. Wright is probably the better facilitator but Hymes will put a lot of pts on the board. I think Oliver and Audu have to take minutes away from those two. Not the other way around. I think Oliver can be another Poole-esque player but he's got to be healthy and prove it. Audu has to reign in the turnovers. The rest of the guards on the team are ahead of him in that regard so that's his battle. If he plays smart, his stock could jump quick because of his athleticism. We will have to agree to disagree here...not a fan of the small lineup...I only want them out there together if all else failed in the game ....not as an option in the game plan...give me Audu, Oliver, and Poole this year and add Cole next year at the 2... In the MAAC there will be plenty of games where two small guys will work and plenty where they won't. I have faith that Patsos will pick the spots to use them together wisely. In this game, and many others Siena did just fine with 5'9" Tay Fisher at the SG: scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=284000005
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2013 13:28:13 GMT -5
I just think you just need ask yourself who the best players are. There's really only 10 to chose from. If you ask me, Hymes is one of our top 5 players definitely. But you know what, Wright may end up being that too.
If Wolfe does redshirt, I'd do something like this and I've obviously posted this before:
PG Hymes 20, Wright 20 SG Poole 10, Hymes 10, Oliver 10, Audu 10 SF Long 20, Poole 20 PF Bisping 25, Long 10, Ogunyemi 5 C Silas 25, Ogunyemi 15
Hymes 30 Poole 30 Long 30 Silas 25 Wright 20 Bisping 25 Ogunyemi 20 Oliver 10 Audu 10 Wolfe-RS
There's your rotation to start with. Always 2 or 3 shooters in the lineup at all times and you try to maximize the time that Long and Silas are on the floor at the same time.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jul 24, 2013 13:57:09 GMT -5
I understand you guys want Hymes on the floor because of his experience and what he brings offensively....I just feel like his size will only allow me as a coach to play him as a pg and not look for points from him...since Wright is a pure pg the two will have to share with the hot man finishing the game....I always want size if it is available to me so Oliver, Poole, and Audu can fill those min at the 2....you guys might laugh now but I would put Lavon at the 2 before Hymes..after you see Lavon play you will see what I mean...with that said whatever Patsos does will be fine with me...just stating my preference
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2013 14:16:15 GMT -5
I understand you guys want Hymes on the floor because of his experience and what he brings offensively....I just feel like his size will only allow me as a coach to play him as a pg and not look for points from him...since Wright is a pure pg the two will have to share with the hot man finishing the game....I always want size if it is available to me so Oliver, Poole, and Audu can fill those min at the 2....you guys might laugh now but I would put Lavon at the 2 before Hymes..after you see Lavon play you will see what I mean...with that said whatever Patsos does will be fine with me...just stating my preference With Lavon playing the 2, 3, 4, & 5 what will everyone else need to do? We'll have a well rested bench. There were 5 major mins PGs in the MAAC last year that were only 5-8 (Wade, Morton, Sledge, RJ Williams, & Hymes) Most of those guys played alongside someone who was between 5-10 & 6-2 ..with only Cormier being 6-2. This is the MAAC, you play your best.
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Post by SaintsFan on Jul 24, 2013 14:20:28 GMT -5
I understand you guys want Hymes on the floor because of his experience and what he brings offensively....I just feel like his size will only allow me as a coach to play him as a pg and not look for points from him...since Wright is a pure pg the two will have to share with the hot man finishing the game....I always want size if it is available to me so Oliver, Poole, and Audu can fill those min at the 2....you guys might laugh now but I would put Lavon at the 2 before Hymes..after you see Lavon play you will see what I mean...with that said whatever Patsos does will be fine with me...just stating my preference i agree with PPC here. Im not a fan of the sub 6'ers at this level and against the level that Siena wants to play at. when it comes time for that much-needed bucket you are going to want someone who has a mismatch and that is not often going to be Hymes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2013 14:27:15 GMT -5
Well essentially, all we're really talking about here is 10-15 mins of Hymes playing with Wright that would allow them to both get their time. That leaves 25-30 mins of a big lineup with someone 6-3 or taller at the 2G...
I really don't see what the problem is for playing some time where we'll have a sure speed and ballhandling edge for just 10-15 mins a game so you really keep Hymes involved. Wright isn't a shooter so it seems only logical to try to get a lot of points from a guy who easily could score 13 a game with 30 mins of time.
And Jimmy is going to be using them in a press. Long, Poole, Hymes, and Wright in a press together for 10 mins....that can force some good turnovers.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2013 14:37:41 GMT -5
Also, let's be honest. If Manhattan is playing this 15 second shotclock ball that's never been seen in the MAAC before EVER , then there are going to be times when we're going to want to control the ball. These two together makes that possible.
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Post by Tony on Jul 24, 2013 15:13:18 GMT -5
Also, let's be honest. If Manhattan is playing this 15 second shotclock ball that's never been seen in the MAAC before EVER , then there are going to be times when we're going to want to control the ball. These two together makes that possible. Nobody in the MAAC played faster than Paul Hewitt—maybe you remember the 98 team that avg 87 ppg and played a few players maybe you have heard of – Archbold, Cantamessa, Clinton, Deters, Fasion, Deters, Fields, Feeney, Knapp, Osinski, Stewart, Taylor As for holding the ball… no effing way—if you run, you always run.. that’s Mitch like thinking we have to take air out of the ball—Fran… never took the air out of the ball..nor did Hewitt.. you play D.. and run your offense the way you practice I'm OK with the small lineup against certain teams and certain situations. As for Hymes-- I am hopefully he can play well with new coach and new system- I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I know the new staff is high on him
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2013 15:17:37 GMT -5
Also, let's be honest. If Manhattan is playing this 15 second shotclock ball that's never been seen in the MAAC before EVER , then there are going to be times when we're going to want to control the ball. These two together makes that possible. Nobody in the MAAC played faster than Paul Hewitt—maybe you remember the 98 team that avg 87 ppg and played a few players maybe you have heard of – Archbold, Cantamessa, Clinton, Deters, Fasion, Deters, Fields, Feeney, Knapp, Osinski, Stewart, Taylor As for holding the ball… no effing way—if you run, you always run.. that’s Mitch like thinking we have to take air out of the ball—Fran… never took the air out of the ball..nor did Hewitt.. you play D.. and run your offense the way you practice I'm OK with the small lineup against certain teams and certain situations. As for Hymes-- I am hopefully he can play well with new coach and new system- I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I know the new staff is high on him For the record. I didn't mean slowdown. I meant not turning the ball over and not playing on our heels. Do you really want Oliver and Audu bringing the ball up against that type of press? Playing them together against a team like Manhattan makes it so that they can't as easily trap us without getting punished on the other end. Both of these PGs have the ability to break a double team. Brookins didn't.
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