IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Dec 2, 2022 23:13:36 GMT -5
No surprise here. I would have been surprised if they granted him a waiver.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Dec 3, 2022 16:15:31 GMT -5
No matter how you slice it, its a bad look for us. We gain nothing by making him sit out. Coaches/fans already starting with, "be careful if you transfer to Siena they wont release you" bs......
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Dec 3, 2022 16:42:58 GMT -5
No win situation.
Not sure how Siena could respond to an inquiry made by the NCAA relative to the “non-participation” document requested by WS & CR. Which clearly states the following:
1. Was no longer given an opportunity to participate (practice or compete per NCAA Bylaw 14.02.12) on the institution’s team for reasons outside of the student-athlete’s control. 2. Was not dismissed from the team or the institution for any reason within the student- athlete’s control (e.g., violation of team or institutional rules). 3. Was athletically eligible and in good standing with the team at the time of transfer. 4. Was in good academic standing and academically eligible at the time of transfer.
The above would have to be falsified to allow the NCAA to provide a waiver.
We couldn’t possibly get away with this without directly misrepresenting the truth to the NCAA. That would have put Siena in an extremely uncomfortable & vulnerable situation.
I think we did the right thing. If we can’t sign someone who already has one transfer under their belt because they have issues with this, they’re probably a high risk get & threat to leave anyway. We’re just avoiding another potential headache. Too many players out there to worry about the ones that might take offense to Siena following NCAA regulations.
This doesn’t impact players who haven’t transferred only players coming out of the portal.
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Post by psycholojets on Dec 3, 2022 16:44:50 GMT -5
Not really interested in kids who are looking to cut corners and assume that the rules shouldn't apply to them. They can play elsewhere as far a I'm concerned.
Sent from my SM-G781U using proboards
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Dec 3, 2022 17:28:22 GMT -5
No matter how you slice it, its a bad look for us. We gain nothing by making him sit out. Coaches/fans already starting with, "be careful if you transfer to Siena they wont release you" bs...... I agree Siena gains nothing, but what was Siena supposed to do?
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Dec 3, 2022 18:40:35 GMT -5
No matter how you slice it, its a bad look for us. We gain nothing by making him sit out. Coaches/fans already starting with, "be careful if you transfer to Siena they wont release you" bs...... I agree Siena gains nothing, but what was Siena supposed to do? I think they did the right thing but was just a sh!t situation all around. The NCAA should just determine based on the production of players and whether teams recruited over players. They shouldn't ask the team they transferred from to lie and pretend they weren't allowed to come back. But no surprise since the only thing the NCAA fears is lawsuits, they would rather pass the buck at any opportunity.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Dec 3, 2022 20:05:21 GMT -5
No matter how you slice it, its a bad look for us. We gain nothing by making him sit out. Coaches/fans already starting with, "be careful if you transfer to Siena they wont release you" bs...... I agree Siena gains nothing, but what was Siena supposed to do? Do what every other team in the country does. Sign a kids release that doesnt want to be in your program. We arent "lying" by signing the release. We're doing exactly what the other 300+ D-1 schools do when a kid tells you he wants to move on. We have no problem paying kids NOT to be on our team every year, so not letting this kid move on doesnt make any sense. It only hurts the program. Nothing positive comes from it. And please, dont come at me with, "Yeah, but we didnt lie...." Thats technicality crap.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Dec 3, 2022 20:13:31 GMT -5
No matter how you slice it, its a bad look for us. We gain nothing by making him sit out. Coaches/fans already starting with, "be careful if you transfer to Siena they wont release you" bs...... Good, those types of recruits probably wouldn’t be a good fit for what Carm’s trying to build here anyway. Saves us from having to replace them after 1-2 years when they jump ship for greener pastures which very rarely work out for those types or problem recruits..
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Dec 3, 2022 20:24:17 GMT -5
I agree Siena gains nothing, but what was Siena supposed to do? I think they did the right thing but was just a sh!t situation all around. The NCAA should just determine based on the production of players and whether teams recruited over players. They shouldn't ask the team they transferred from to lie and pretend they weren't allowed to come back. But no surprise since the only thing the NCAA fears is lawsuits, they would rather pass the buck at any opportunity. You would sign to all of these terms? 1. Was no longer given an opportunity to participate (practice or compete per NCAA Bylaw 14.02.12) on the institution’s team for reasons outside of the student-athlete’s control. 2. Was not dismissed from the team or the institution for any reason within the student- athlete’s control (e.g., violation of team or institutional rules). 3. Was athletically eligible and in good standing with the team at the time of transfer. 4. Was in good academic standing and academically eligible at the time of transfer.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Dec 3, 2022 20:26:05 GMT -5
I agree Siena gains nothing, but what was Siena supposed to do? Do what every other team in the country does. Sign a kids release that doesnt want to be in your program. We arent "lying" by signing the release. We're doing exactly what the other 300+ D-1 schools do when a kid tells you he wants to move on. We have no problem paying kids NOT to be on our team every year, so not letting this kid move on doesnt make any sense. It only hurts the program. Nothing positive comes from it. And please, dont come at me with, "Yeah, but we didnt lie...." Thats technicality crap. I’m just asking, I have no idea how these things work and you obviously do. So Siena didn’t release him? I thought they did. What I thought the issue was him not sitting out a year and that is why he was asking for a waiver from the ncaa.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Dec 3, 2022 20:41:07 GMT -5
I think they did the right thing but was just a sh!t situation all around. The NCAA should just determine based on the production of players and whether teams recruited over players. They shouldn't ask the team they transferred from to lie and pretend they weren't allowed to come back. But no surprise since the only thing the NCAA fears is lawsuits, they would rather pass the buck at any opportunity. You would sign to all of these terms? 1. Was no longer given an opportunity to participate (practice or compete per NCAA Bylaw 14.02.12) on the institution’s team for reasons outside of the student-athlete’s control. 2. Was not dismissed from the team or the institution for any reason within the student- athlete’s control (e.g., violation of team or institutional rules). 3. Was athletically eligible and in good standing with the team at the time of transfer. 4. Was in good academic standing and academically eligible at the time of transfer. Are you asking this question of yourself? 🙂
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Dec 4, 2022 0:55:00 GMT -5
Do what every other team in the country does. Sign a kids release that doesnt want to be in your program. We arent "lying" by signing the release. We're doing exactly what the other 300+ D-1 schools do when a kid tells you he wants to move on. We have no problem paying kids NOT to be on our team every year, so not letting this kid move on doesnt make any sense. It only hurts the program. Nothing positive comes from it. And please, dont come at me with, "Yeah, but we didnt lie...." Thats technicality crap. I’m just asking, I have no idea how these things work and you obviously do. So Siena didn’t release him? I thought they did. What I thought the issue was him not sitting out a year and that is why he was asking for a waiver from the ncaa. Things have obviously changed in the transfer world over the last few years. Years ago if a kid transferred from a D-1 to another D-1 he'd have to sit out a year....but that was with a signed release from the previous school. IF a school didnt sign the players release, they had to sit out TWO years. Now that was extremely rare because everyone signed a kids release. If a school did that the player would appeal to the NCAA. I dont have the stats, but Im guessing most kids won against the school that wanted him to sit out 2 years. Rogers probably didnt get much sympathy from the NCAA's since he only stayed at Siena for one year after getting instant eligibility coming from Cal Poly. I mean the kid isnt trying to play in our league, or even for a team we usually play in OOC, then I might get why Siena would be reluctant to sign a waiver. He wants to go halfway across the country and find happiness there. So let him! Who cares why he didnt want to be at Siena. Look at Don Carey. He was ARGUABLY G'Towns best player last season, and he left to go down the street to play at Maryland. Hoyas let him go. Im sure they didnt want to see him leave, but why fight it. Kid wanted out for some reason. Does anyone know of any other transfer in the country going thru this? Being forced to sit out?
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glen
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Post by glen on Dec 4, 2022 6:50:02 GMT -5
HJ - as far as I can tell, we signed the release. He's free to go. What we didn't sign was the extra bit about he wasn't going to play, etc. He was our leading scorer. Of course he was going to play. I'm not sure why you feel this hurts in recruiting. I agree with others who state previously - if that's top of mind for a kid, it doesn't seem like he's really vested in playing for Siena...or anywhere for that matter. That's not what you want in a recruit. Kids are already getting a free transfer / no-sit option. Now they want 2 in 4 years. That's BS. Just an FYI, when you look at a resume to fill spots at work, do you look at their employment history? What's your thought if they have 3 jobs in 3 years?
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Post by saints15 on Dec 4, 2022 10:22:56 GMT -5
I’m just asking, I have no idea how these things work and you obviously do. So Siena didn’t release him? I thought they did. What I thought the issue was him not sitting out a year and that is why he was asking for a waiver from the ncaa. Things have obviously changed in the transfer world over the last few years. Years ago if a kid transferred from a D-1 to another D-1 he'd have to sit out a year....but that was with a signed release from the previous school. IF a school didnt sign the players release, they had to sit out TWO years. Now that was extremely rare because everyone signed a kids release. If a school did that the player would appeal to the NCAA. I dont have the stats, but Im guessing most kids won against the school that wanted him to sit out 2 years. Rogers probably didnt get much sympathy from the NCAA's since he only stayed at Siena for one year after getting instant eligibility coming from Cal Poly. I mean the kid isnt trying to play in our league, or even for a team we usually play in OOC, then I might get why Siena would be reluctant to sign a waiver. He wants to go halfway across the country and find happiness there. So let him! Who cares why he didnt want to be at Siena. Look at Don Carey. He was ARGUABLY G'Towns best player last season, and he left to go down the street to play at Maryland. Hoyas let him go. Im sure they didnt want to see him leave, but why fight it. Kid wanted out for some reason. Does anyone know of any other transfer in the country going thru this? Being forced to sit out? I believe Carey was a graduate (or at least I would hope after 5 years he had his degree) transfer, so Georgetown wouldn’t need to sign the release saying they had no spot for him.
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Dec 4, 2022 10:44:46 GMT -5
Siena signed the release, he was free to leave. I have absolutely no issue with them deciding not to sign an affidavit that he was no longer welcome. He was a starter and would have led the team in minutes, shots and scoring this year. He came to Siena without having power 5 teams show interest in him and used Siena to raise his stock.
If this keeps transfers from signing, because they anticipate leaving after having a great season to got to a bigger program, then so be it. Sign somewhere else..
All that said, I always though Rogers was Sloan Seymour-like. Great shooter who played no defense, didn’t rebound, turned the ball over and had no handle.
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