musicman
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Post by musicman on Nov 4, 2022 9:41:23 GMT -5
Carm has run-off a few Siena Saint players saying questionable reasons why they left. Has he ran off players or were players dissatisfied and left? I can’t remember which, if any, he supposedly ran off. I'm curious as to who he is speaking of also.
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glen
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Post by glen on Nov 4, 2022 10:11:23 GMT -5
Carm has run-off a few Siena Saint players saying questionable reasons why they left. Has Carm run kids off or has he been honest about playing time. I don't think he's told kids they need to go.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Nov 4, 2022 10:28:04 GMT -5
I can see both sides here. Siena should do everything they can ethically do to let the kid play. Can only help their reputation with future recruits. But if it comes down to filling out a waiver that is a total lie then there is no need to go there.
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orange77
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Post by orange77 on Nov 4, 2022 10:31:47 GMT -5
It's not a release situation. After your one freebie transfer, a second waiver requires signing the No Participation Opportunity Form, which requires the departure school to certify that, among other things, the player wasn't eligible to return for reasons beyond the player's control (like for example, being run off). What do we get for lying on the No Participation Opportunity Form? Keep in mind the program is still on NCAA probation until March 2023. You can view the form and what the signer is certifying to here: ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d1/clr/D1CLR_NoParticipationOpportunityForm.pdfYou would seriously sign your name on that...especially while your program is on probation? Guess which scenario results in the worse reputation. Unfortunately for Colby he didn’t make the greatest decision or was sold a bill of goods by Wichita. Sounds like we explained the situation & told him he was an important player moving forward. Can’t sign off on a document that falsifies the reality of the situation. These kids need to understand the ramifications of their actions. I hated to see Colby go, but it sounds to me like he understood and accepted the uncertainties when he left. His new coach and teammate would prefer that Siena and Colby both make up something so he can play this year. Kudos to Siena for their apparent integrity on this one.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Nov 4, 2022 15:51:40 GMT -5
I can see both sides here. Siena should do everything they can ethically do to let the kid play. Can only help their reputation with future recruits. But if it comes down to filling out a waiver that is a total lie then there is no need to go there. +1
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Nov 4, 2022 15:57:06 GMT -5
I can see both sides here. Siena should do everything they can ethically do to let the kid play. Can only help their reputation with future recruits. But if it comes down to filling out a waiver that is a total lie then there is no need to go there. Under the “new” rules & based on the link to the doc SF provided, I just don’t see how you can attest to the fact that he “was no longer given an opportunity to participate (practice or compete per NCAA Bylaw 14.02.12) on the institution’s team for reasons outside of the student-athlete’s control”. Do you think the NCAA would rubber stamp this or might they potentially make a call to Siena asking for a statement to clarify his reasons for non-participation? Could get very messy in a hurry if you’re falsifying the document.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Nov 4, 2022 15:58:56 GMT -5
From the article this is interesting: “It would be like adding another sniper to our team,” Porter said. “But he’s not just one type of player. He’s not just a shooter. He can defend at a high level. He can play off the bounce. He can play the one if you need him to. He has that poise as a player. He’s a real flamethrower.” Defend at a high level? If i am remembering correctly he was a good shooter but a bit of a sieve on D. Read more at: www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article268220837.html#storylink=cpy
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Nov 5, 2022 7:11:51 GMT -5
Unfortunately for Colby he didn’t make the greatest decision or was sold a bill of goods by Wichita. Sounds like we explained the situation & told him he was an important player moving forward. Can’t sign off on a document that falsifies the reality of the situation. These kids need to understand the ramifications of their actions. I hated to see Colby go, but it sounds to me like he understood and accepted the uncertainties when he left. His new coach and teammate would prefer that Siena and Colby both make up something so he can play this year. Kudos to Siena for their apparent integrity on this one. The situation of constant transfers will only get worse if schools continue to allow the 2nd transfer with no penalty.
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Nov 5, 2022 9:29:17 GMT -5
Follow up story on the Colby Rogers situation including thoughts from numerous national college basketball analysts which found the problem may not be on either side, but rather the NCAA’s flawed system. www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article268286662.htmlI think Gary Parrish's response pretty much highlights the flawed thinking of one perspective: he believes it’s morally wrong for any athletic department to stand in the way of a student-athlete being able to compete - yet he apparently disregards the inherent lack of morality in the lying necessary to make it happen. I guess he only has morals when it's convenient.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Nov 5, 2022 9:37:14 GMT -5
Follow up story on the Colby Rogers situation including thoughts from numerous national college basketball analysts which found the problem may not be on either side, but rather the NCAA’s flawed system. www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article268286662.htmlI think Gary Parrish's response pretty much highlights the flawed thinking of one perspective: he believes it’s morally wrong for any athletic department to stand in the way of a student-athlete being able to compete - yet he apparently disregards the inherent lack of morality in the lying necessary to make it happen. I guess he only has morals when it's convenient. This isn’t even an argument. Siena’s not standing in the way nor at fault, the NCAA is…. This is typical of any bureaucratic organization. They created this mess, they need to straighten it out. We’re merely following the rules. Don’t be surprised if you eventually see the ability to transfer at will / multiple times with no penalty.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Nov 5, 2022 9:52:21 GMT -5
Follow up story on the Colby Rogers situation including thoughts from numerous national college basketball analysts which found the problem may not be on either side, but rather the NCAA’s flawed system. www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article268286662.htmlI think Gary Parrish's response pretty much highlights the flawed thinking of one perspective: he believes it’s morally wrong for any athletic department to stand in the way of a student-athlete being able to compete - yet he apparently disregards the inherent lack of morality in the lying necessary to make it happen. I guess he only has morals when it's convenient. This isn’t even an argument. Siena’s not standing in the way nor at fault, the NCAA is…. This is typical of any bureaucratic organization. They created this mess, they need to straighten it out. We’re merely following the rules. Don’t be surprised if you eventually see the ability to transfer at will / multiple times with no penalty. That would be ONE way to straighten out the mess. The other would be to say ZERO second transfers. In theory, there's nothing wrong with the system now (assuming we agree that the first transfer should never be penalized), if the rules are that a school should be honorable and truthful. The only tweak I can think of that would resolve this is for the NCAA to take responsibility to determine if the 2nd transfer DESERVES a waiver under current requirements - NOT to be put on the exiting school, which could encourage either lying or resentment on the part of that school.
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Post by saints15 on Nov 5, 2022 9:58:11 GMT -5
I thought a couple of months ago it was pretty much a done deal that there would be unlimited transfers. Is that now totally dead or still on the table for a future vote?
I think the easiest solution for the NCAA is to amend the ‘run off’ part of the current waiver. Don’t make the school have to lie but give them a chance to object if they want, and then the NCAA reviews the case and makes a decision.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Nov 5, 2022 10:17:19 GMT -5
As NYS’s prior Comptroller, Ned Reagan, used to like was seeing his name in the newspapers. It didn’t matter if it was good or bad press; just as long as it was in the press.
Maybe this is good for Siena, as it’s putting the “name” out there.
I think Reagan used to say something like there is no bad press (something like that). Anyone remember his phrase?
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Nov 5, 2022 10:19:50 GMT -5
I thought a couple of months ago it was pretty much a done deal that there would be unlimited transfers. Is that now totally dead or still on the table for a future vote? I think the easiest solution for the NCAA is to amend the ‘run off’ part of the current waiver. Don’t make the school have to lie but give them a chance to object if they want, and then the NCAA reviews the case and makes a decision. Right. NCAA should identify the criteria for valid 2nd transfer waiver and take responsibility by interviewing all parties involved and make the decision. And it shouldn't have to be a 3 month process. Only complication would be when player says one thing and school says another. I don't think I ever heard Colby say he was leaving due to being run off or any misdeed on the part of Siena. Not sure of the other criteria.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Nov 5, 2022 10:21:59 GMT -5
To bad the NCAA isn’t more involve with prioritizing students’ education (and graduating) rather than making money off them. 🙂
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