nolesaint
Team Captain
Posts: 1,892
Dislikes:
|
Post by nolesaint on May 25, 2018 19:49:43 GMT -5
Donald Carey arrives the season after next, and JC will have filled a lot of other scholarships by then. Add guys like Zdor or Rafus and the like and he can easily recruit us right to the top by year 2. Look how quickly Fran was in the championship game one season after somehow winning 15 games with mostly crap his first season. All you need for a quick rise is a good plan and better talent than everyone else. JC was dead right when he said his tenure will be judge by his first 10 recruits. So lets see if he brings it and quickly blows by everyone just like Fran once did. I see what he wants to build. Defensively, we already know about havoc. Offensively, he wants to run a Villanova type attack where 3 pointers rain down upon opponents in an overwhelming aerial barrage. I'm okay with that. It seems to work. Rafus, would kill it and be a steal at this level.... youtu.be/DeoaB6GN36UI’d might take a shot on Zachery as well... youtu.be/rWegEJ1R8lI White tee/Gray shorts Not sure what this kids story is but watching that highlight reel (yeah I l know all video is a showcase) this kid can play shoots well athletic quick gets to the rim....I like his game. Both of these kids would be great pick-ups and building blocks for a Championship winning multiple postseason playing team. Hope JC can land them or kids as good as them that also fit his style.
|
|
|
Post by hoopsforever on May 25, 2018 22:47:59 GMT -5
This is probably way too simplistic - but here it is - we lost some young guns, expected that. JC is starting his recruitment process with a flurry - expected that. Good news is that now we have a coach who is excited about being at Siena, and that message will carry over to new recruits and to the team for 18-19. Kids left seem to have a new attitude as well - finally, a real coach, someone who cares about them as people and players. As I fan I can't tell you the different view I have right now of Siena basketball. I am excited to renew my season tix. I can't wait to the first game and my enthusiasm will carry over win or lose. I believe in Coach Christian, I believe in Siena, and we can blot out the past five years as five of the most frustrating years in Siena basketball history. A new era has begun!!!!!!!!!! Our prayers are answered!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by Tony on May 26, 2018 5:15:22 GMT -5
Those of us that have around a while have heard this all before- he cant win for two years maybe 3. As we have seen when Hewitt was brought in he won immediately—same with Fran- many of you on this board said Fran wouldn’t win 5 games his first year after he lost Tommy Mitchell ( graduation) McClinton, Al Fisher and Haddix got hurt. Good coaches find a way to win. This is the MAAC, not the ACC- nonsense to say 3 years before we finish top 5. JC gets a pass next year, we shall have a good idea on JC after this summer and we see what kind of 2019 recruits he is recruiting. With JC’s enthusiasm, his staff, Siena’s facilities and media coverage I can’t wait to see this guy work the recruiting trail
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Dislikes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 26, 2018 9:54:35 GMT -5
Those of us that have around a while have heard this all before- he cant win for two years maybe 3. As we have seen when Hewitt was brought in he won immediately—same with Fran- many of you on this board said Fran wouldn’t win 5 games his first year after he lost Tommy Mitchell ( graduation) McClinton, Al Fisher and Haddix got hurt. Good coaches find a way to win. This is the MAAC, not the ACC- nonsense to say 3 years before we finish top 5. JC gets a pass next year, we shall have a good idea on JC after this summer and we see what kind of 2019 recruits he is recruiting. With JC’s enthusiasm, his staff, Siena’s facilities and media coverage I can’t wait to see this guy work the recruiting trail In my opinion, JC could surprise IF Pickett is solid and he adds some more pieces to go along with he and Carey. It could also take some improvement by guys like Camper and Bentley. Guys with Camper and Bentley's athleticism could all of a sudden turn around and become stars in this league. We don't know. All I know is that without either the personnel OR the coaching style to be tough on the boards, it's likely going to take a plus full team effort in turnover margin, shot making, and 3 pt D in order to crack that top 5. So far, the only guys on this team who've proven to be able to take care of the ball and create are Smithen and Carey...and they'll never play together. I'm sure Pickett and some others will join them under JC's system but it will take a lot more ballhandlers and ballhawks to really maximize it to the point where you can overcome being dominated on the boards every night. In NEC play alone, he was outrebounded by about 4 boards per night on average over his 6 years. He'll likely need to build up his stable of athletic ballhandling/ballhawking wings before his system really wreaks a lot of mayhem. Bentley, Camper, Shivers, and Heurter would likely be key to an earlier surprise.
|
|
indian82
Assistant Coach
Posts: 6,450
Dislikes:
|
Post by indian82 on May 26, 2018 11:17:47 GMT -5
Those of us that have around a while have heard this all before- he cant win for two years maybe 3. As we have seen when Hewitt was brought in he won immediately—same with Fran- many of you on this board said Fran wouldn’t win 5 games his first year after he lost Tommy Mitchell ( graduation) McClinton, Al Fisher and Haddix got hurt. Good coaches find a way to win. This is the MAAC, not the ACC- nonsense to say 3 years before we finish top 5. JC gets a pass next year, we shall have a good idea on JC after this summer and we see what kind of 2019 recruits he is recruiting. With JC’s enthusiasm, his staff, Siena’s facilities and media coverage I can’t wait to see this guy work the recruiting trail In my opinion, JC could surprise IF Pickett is solid and he adds some more pieces to go along with he and Carey. It could also take some improvement by guys like Camper and Bentley. Guys with Camper and Bentley's athleticism could all of a sudden turn around and become stars in this league. We don't know. All I know is that without either the personnel OR the coaching style to be tough on the boards, it's likely going to take a plus full team effort in turnover margin, shot making, and 3 pt D in order to crack that top 5. So far, the only guys on this team who've proven to be able to take care of the ball and create are Smithen and Carey...and they'll never play together. I'm sure Pickett and some others will join them under JC's system but it will take a lot more ballhandlers and ballhawks to really maximize it to the point where you can overcome being dominated on the boards every night. In NEC play alone, he was outrebounded by about 4 boards per night on average over his 6 years. He'll likely need to build up his stable of athletic ballhandling/ballhawking wings before his system really wreaks a lot of mayhem. Bentley, Camper, Shivers, and Heurter would likely be key to an earlier surprise. I understand your concern re: rebounding, but it's possible that the players he was not able to attract solid rebounders at MSM (due to Mayhem). And he still won. I would not give up that rebounding battle yet. Let's see how he adjusts his recruiting and half-court offense here. I have to believe he understands the importance of rebounding. Do you know what VCU's & UT's proficiency in rebounding was/is under Shaka? I
|
|
|
Post by diamonddog on May 26, 2018 12:47:02 GMT -5
I want to see consistent effort every time I watch this program this year. It is how the ball bounces if we do better than 8 wins.
But I will say this quote from Thomas Jefferson: "The harder I work, the more luck I seem to have."
Too many times during the Mitch and Jimbob eras I wanted to throw a rock at my computer/TV screen/live game for lack of want to win from a Siena team during a game.
|
|
|
Post by sienahusker on May 26, 2018 19:00:52 GMT -5
You can wring your hands over lack of rebounding but I believe JC has a system that he has to get everyone to buy into. The ultimate stat is 2 NCAA's in 6 seasons. Let's give him a chance.
|
|
|
Post by hockeyguy on May 26, 2018 22:14:17 GMT -5
An un-impassioned look at the 2018 - 2019 team (with one opening) and next year. JC favors a fast-paced pressing style that I just cannot see fitting the talent he has, this year or next. Let's start at the 5.... well, okay there is no 5 player on the roster. The 4.. Fisher, Degnan, Friday and Seymour. Does anyone mistake these guys for an Olympic relay team? If Friday doesn't drop 25 lbs, at least, he will last 10 minutes in the first half in a running style, and 5 minutes in the second. Degnan is hard to guage, he played all of 86 minutes last year and looking kind of lost for most of them. Fisher will play his heart out but his lack of speed and lateral movement has been pointed out by many on here. And then there is the Freshman Seymour who has been knocked for not playing with any heart at Shaker by many on here and is all of 200 lbs. 8 feet and in looks to be setting up as a disaster both offensively and defensively. The 3... Siena has one full sized 3 in Huerter (6'7) and a slightly undersized combo relief man in Camper (6'5). After that everyone is 6'4"and shorter. No true point guard to quarterback the team, and a whole bunch of 2's or combo's, sort of jack of multiple trades, masters of none. I would be astounded if Pickett changes the dynamic his first year in. It seems to me JC will need to seriously alter his "2 NCAA, 4 champion" strategy for slower more set plays. After this season, Degnan and Fisher are gone (50% of the current interior) along with Smithen, although the Carey signing looks hopeful. I am not being a Debbie Downer, just stepping back and as a "non-JP hater" I don't see that the change will produce any better results than could have been expected under JP, and if Prince stayed, probably not as good. I hope I am wrong.
|
|
sky
Junior
Posts: 1,052
Dislikes:
|
Post by sky on May 27, 2018 5:44:40 GMT -5
An un-impassioned look at the 2018 - 2019 team (with one opening) and next year. JC favors a fast-paced pressing style that I just cannot see fitting the talent he has, this year or next. Let's start at the 5.... well, okay there is no 5 player on the roster. The 4.. Fisher, Degnan, Friday and Seymour. Does anyone mistake these guys for an Olympic relay team? If Friday doesn't drop 25 lbs, at least, he will last 10 minutes in the first half in a running style, and 5 minutes in the second. Degnan is hard to guage, he played all of 86 minutes last year and looking kind of lost for most of them. Fisher will play his heart out but his lack of speed and lateral movement has been pointed out by many on here. And then there is the Freshman Seymour who has been knocked for not playing with any heart at Shaker by many on here and is all of 200 lbs. 8 feet and in looks to be setting up as a disaster both offensively and defensively. The 3... Siena has one full sized 3 in Huerter (6'7) and a slightly undersized combo relief man in Camper (6'5). After that everyone is 6'4"and shorter. No true point guard to quarterback the team, and a whole bunch of 2's or combo's, sort of jack of multiple trades, masters of none. I would be astounded if Pickett changes the dynamic his first year in. It seems to me JC will need to seriously alter his "2 NCAA, 4 champion" strategy for slower more set plays. After this season, Degnan and Fisher are gone (50% of the current interior) along with Smithen, although the Carey signing looks hopeful. I am not being a Debbie Downer, just stepping back and as a "non-JP hater" I don't see that the change will produce any better results than could have been expected under JP, and if Prince stayed, probably not as good. I hope I am wrong. There isn't too much to argue about here with one exception and that will (hopefully) be in game coaching...there were at least 5 games last year that were lost in the last few minutes that coaching decisions could have changed...
|
|
Sienafan
Team Captain
Posts: 2,498
Dislikes:
|
Post by Sienafan on May 27, 2018 7:12:22 GMT -5
... I am not being a Debbie Downer, just stepping back and as a "non-JP hater" I don't see that the change will produce any better results than could have been expected under JP, and if Prince stayed, probably not as good. I hope I am wrong. The change may be well not produce any better results in the short term. But then that's largely a function of the remaining roster built by Patsos isn't it? If the best players that recently departed were mostly freshmen and the upperclassmen which remain are all role players, that serves to underscore a big reason why a change had to be made. Where are the talented upperclassmen who should be leading the team now? Regardless of whether one is a JP lover or hater, it's objectively pretty apparent that his recruiting was not good - bad enough that as soon as the last of Mitch's players departed, the team went straight to the bottom of the league. That fact is not debatable. As Bill Parcells famously said: You are what your record says you are. So you are correct that there may be no short term improvement. What would you have had Siena do - give Patsos another year to try to turn it around? Five years wasn't enough time? I don't think that would have produced notably better results. The roster wouldn't have remained intact even if Patsos had stayed. He annually lost players to transfer and would have again - the total over his tenure is astounding. Siena is wisely playing the long game. Sometimes you gotta take a step back before you make two steps forward. If we suffer another year at the bottom in trade for a rapid rise back to the top the year after that, I'll gladly take that trade. One thing is certain - Patsos was never going to win a title at Siena. He had half a decade to try. So it was time to make a change for better or for worse. Perhaps you can let JC get a few games under his belt and see what he can do first before you long for the days of JP.
|
|
legacy
Sophomore
Posts: 736
Dislikes:
|
Post by legacy on May 27, 2018 7:35:44 GMT -5
Yes Sienafan! JP loather or not and yes I am! Let's not also forget (as time has a way of doing) how many games the team played uninspired, apathetic ball; often tentatively, fearfully looking over their shoulders at the bench. Many games came down to the end...losing teams find a way to lose, just as the adverse is true. Luck, heart, desire, passion, optimism and love of the coach and team (cohesion) may be the best variables. As a fan we're feeling that again so let's hope it translates to the game
|
|
|
Post by Tony on May 27, 2018 8:13:12 GMT -5
... I am not being a Debbie Downer, just stepping back and as a "non-JP hater" I don't see that the change will produce any better results than could have been expected under JP, and if Prince stayed, probably not as good. I hope I am wrong. The change may be well not produce any better results in the short term. But then that's largely a function of the remaining roster built by Patsos isn't it? If the best players that recently departed were mostly freshmen and the upperclassmen which remain are all role players, that serves to underscore a big reason why a change had to be made. Where are the talented upperclassmen who should be leading the team now? Regardless of whether one is a JP lover or hater, it's objectively pretty apparent that his recruiting was not good - bad enough that as soon as the last of Mitch's players departed, the team went straight to the bottom of the league. That fact is not debatable. As Bill Parcells famously said: You are what your record says you are. So you are correct that there may be no short term improvement. What would you have had Siena do - give Patsos another year to try to turn it around? Five years wasn't enough time? I don't think that would have produced notably better results. The roster wouldn't have remained intact even if Patsos had stayed. He annually lost players to transfer and would have again - the total over his tenure is astounding. Siena is wisely playing the long game. Sometimes you gotta take a step back before you make two steps forward. If we suffer another year at the bottom in trade for a rapid rise back to the top the year after that, I'll gladly take that trade. One thing is certain - Patsos was never going to win a title at Siena. He had half a decade to try. So it was time to make a change for better or for worse. Perhaps you can let JC get a few games under his belt and see what he can do first before you long for the days of JP. Well said-- right on target!!
|
|
|
Post by hockeyguy on May 27, 2018 8:17:16 GMT -5
... I am not being a Debbie Downer, just stepping back and as a "non-JP hater" I don't see that the change will produce any better results than could have been expected under JP, and if Prince stayed, probably not as good. I hope I am wrong. The change may be well not produce any better results in the short term. But then that's largely a function of the remaining roster built by Patsos isn't it? If the best players that recently departed were mostly freshmen and the upperclassmen which remain are all role players, that serves to underscore a big reason why a change had to be made. Where are the talented upperclassmen who should be leading the team now? Regardless of whether one is a JP lover or hater, it's objectively pretty apparent that his recruiting was not good - bad enough that as soon as the last of Mitch's players departed, the team went straight to the bottom of the league. That fact is not debatable. As Bill Parcells famously said: You are what your record says you are. So you are correct that there may be no short term improvement. What would you have had Siena do - give Patsos another year to try to turn it around? Five years wasn't enough time? I don't think that would have produced notably better results. The roster wouldn't have remained intact even if Patsos had stayed. He annually lost players to transfer and would have again - the total over his tenure is astounding. Siena is wisely playing the long game. Sometimes you gotta take a step back before you make two steps forward. If we suffer another year at the bottom in trade for a rapid rise back to the top the year after that, I'll gladly take that trade. One thing is certain - Patsos was never going to win a title at Siena. He had half a decade to try. So it was time to make a change for better or for worse. Perhaps you can let JC get a few games under his belt and see what he can do first before you long for the days of JP. SF, you ask what would I have Siena do, it is more what would I have had them not do, specifically tie up a scholarship for 4 years in a questionable Seymour, and to a lesser degree on Pickett (based on the other schools interested, every coach in the Northeast had a chance to take a look at him and for the most part passed on him). They are two openings that will no longer be available next year, or three years after. I am willing to watch and see what happens and will root for the team, even driving 250 miles round trip to catch a few games at the TUC (provided I don't pack up my golf clubs and move to Charleston or Savannah by the autumn). I just might have approached things a little differently than the coach has, but hey, he's the coach, not me.
|
|
OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
Posts: 10,687
Member is Online
Dislikes:
|
Post by OneIndian on May 27, 2018 8:56:38 GMT -5
The change may be well not produce any better results in the short term. But then that's largely a function of the remaining roster built by Patsos isn't it? If the best players that recently departed were mostly freshmen and the upperclassmen which remain are all role players, that serves to underscore a big reason why a change had to be made. Where are the talented upperclassmen who should be leading the team now? Regardless of whether one is a JP lover or hater, it's objectively pretty apparent that his recruiting was not good - bad enough that as soon as the last of Mitch's players departed, the team went straight to the bottom of the league. That fact is not debatable. As Bill Parcells famously said: You are what your record says you are. So you are correct that there may be no short term improvement. What would you have had Siena do - give Patsos another year to try to turn it around? Five years wasn't enough time? I don't think that would have produced notably better results. The roster wouldn't have remained intact even if Patsos had stayed. He annually lost players to transfer and would have again - the total over his tenure is astounding. Siena is wisely playing the long game. Sometimes you gotta take a step back before you make two steps forward. If we suffer another year at the bottom in trade for a rapid rise back to the top the year after that, I'll gladly take that trade. One thing is certain - Patsos was never going to win a title at Siena. He had half a decade to try. So it was time to make a change for better or for worse. Perhaps you can let JC get a few games under his belt and see what he can do first before you long for the days of JP. SF, you ask what would I have Siena do, it is more what would I have had them not do, specifically tie up a scholarship for 4 years in a questionable Seymour, and to a lesser degree on Pickett (based on the other schools interested, every coach in the Northeast had a chance to take a look at him and for the most part passed on him). They are two openings that will no longer be available next year, or three years after. I am willing to watch and see what happens and will root for the team, even driving 250 miles round trip to catch a few games at the TUC (provided I don't pack up my golf clubs and move to Charleston or Savannah by the autumn). I just might have approached things a little differently than the coach has, but hey, he's the coach, not me. Have to give JC more than 1 month to straighten out the giant mess he was left. “Officially” his staff hasn’t been announced. I have no doubt there will be additional turnover on this roster. There are parts that just don’t fit. What is important is that JC has a system and recruits to fit it, it’s gonna take a bit to get it worked out...stay tuned and be patient. With Patsos more of the same was a lock. Horn Nico Penn Oduro = 8 wins. Still think JC tops that missing the 4 best players from last year...that tells ya all ya need to know about Jimbo.
|
|
|
Post by MTS on May 27, 2018 10:14:29 GMT -5
Once again Hockeyguy should just watch Washington play Vegas in the Stanley cup finals and let Jamion get back to building Siena up.
Next year is a "free" year for JC. I'm betting we win around 12 games give or take. He has a system that will throw teams off.
Once he gets more talent we will hopefully see big time results. The recruiting class he signs this fall will be crucial. Already off to a good start with Carey (who essentially will be apart of it start playing in 2019-2020.
|
|