saints22
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Post by saints22 on Apr 5, 2018 8:52:51 GMT -5
Well it's done- agreed not good way- let's hope Siena doesnt compound this by letting Darg have any say in new coach. This B/S didnt happen in vacuum. Darg knew what was going on, Darg also let Jimmy vacation twice a month in off season every year- the seeds of this year's 8 win season were sown the least 5 years by the mistake after mistake Patsos made taking kids with little to no other offers, and his inability to win kids in competitive recruiting situations, his so called recruiting trips to west coast where he spent more time partying than he did recruiting. Hopefully a plan is in place to clean house and remove/ retire Darg. I hold him fully culpable for the current situation of the Siena program agree with sentiments about JP- this thread was about Darg- the incompetence of the man is astounding. He took a program that was one of the top programs not only in the MAAC, but one of the tops mids in the country and in 8 short years ran into the ground with unbelievably bad head coach choices and he compounded that by offering poorly thought out contracts, basically he failed to protect Siena’s interests, I've said it before, and I guess I have to say it again.........the last two Siena men's coaches were hired over John's recommendations. He is not responsible for those hires. I know that for a fact. You say that "Darg knew what was going on", which I assume refers to conduct toward people around the program. You're undoubtedly right, but how many posts have their been citing changes in Jimmy's on-court behavior in recent years because of what we all assumed were steps taken by John and others in the administration. I have to assume those steps would have also addressed any concerns about off the court conduct as well. So if John did know what was going on, something was done to respond to the concerns. And I don't disagree that recruiting has been a problem. But I don't know how much Jimmy's vacations had to do with it. Everybody is entitled to vacation time. I don't know what Siena's vacation policies are for people who work at the school, but I have to believe that any vacation time Jimmy took was consistent with the school's policies. John may have some responsibility with respect to the contract extensions, but I don't know that for a fact, and speculating that he is responsible for it, as many on here have, is nothing more than that, speculation. (I've heard that maybe we should be looking at some BoT members as the people responsible for this.) Maybe a change would be good for everyone, including John. But let's be fair. Blaming him for everything that has happened, and conveying the impression that he has done nothing while all of the problems persisted, just isn't accurate.
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Post by clickclack on Apr 5, 2018 8:53:46 GMT -5
Tony, I think Ryan is talking about JP berating people from day 1. Ask Garrett Kelly who was forced to walk hauling equipment to meet the bus that was ordered to leave campus without him because he made a travel arrangement error in Patsos first year. The bus was pulled over to wait for him to catch up on RT 9 at the Mobil Station. Full circle, ask Sammy Friday about being left at St. Peter's after the game thus season. In between ask the players and staff he berated in front of the entire team and staff in what were often tirades and then passed of as 'jokes' or 'comedy'. The only joke has been JP and the staff that stayed and have been silent through it all. Time for a major sweeping overhaul.
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Post by greengold4ever on Apr 5, 2018 8:58:21 GMT -5
Fr. Kevin...............
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Post by clickclack on Apr 5, 2018 9:01:55 GMT -5
Well it's done- agreed not good way- let's hope Siena doesnt compound this by letting Darg have any say in new coach. This B/S didnt happen in vacuum. Darg knew what was going on, Darg also let Jimmy vacation twice a month in off season every year- the seeds of this year's 8 win season were sown the least 5 years by the mistake after mistake Patsos made taking kids with little to no other offers, and his inability to win kids in competitive recruiting situations, his so called recruiting trips to west coast where he spent more time partying than he did recruiting. Hopefully a plan is in place to clean house and remove/ retire Darg. I hold him fully culpable for the current situation of the Siena program agree with sentiments about JP- this thread was about Darg- the incompetence of the man is astounding. He took a program that was one of the top programs not only in the MAAC, but one of the tops mids in the country and in 8 short years ran into the ground with unbelievably bad head coach choices and he compounded that by offering poorly thought out contracts, basically he failed to protect Siena’s interests, I've said it before, and I guess I have to say it again.........the last two Siena men's coaches were hired over John's recommendations. He is not responsible for those hires. I know that for a fact. You say that "Darg knew what was going on", which I assume refers to conduct toward people around the program. You're undoubtedly right, but how many posts have their been citing changes in Jimmy's on-court behavior in recent years because of what we all assumed were steps taken by John and others in the administration. I have to assume those steps would have also addressed any concerns about off the court conduct as well. So if John did know what was going on, something was done to respond to the concerns. And I don't disagree that recruiting has been a problem. But I don't know how much Jimmy's vacations had to do with it. Everybody is entitled to vacation time. I don't know what Siena's vacation policies are for people who work at the school, but I have to believe that any vacation time Jimmy took was consistent with the school's policies. John may have some responsibility with respect to the contract extensions, but I don't know that for a fact, and speculating that he is responsible for it, as many on here have, is nothing more than that, speculation. (I've heard that maybe we should be looking at some BoT members as the people responsible for this.) Maybe a change would be good for everyone, including John. But let's be fair. Blaming him for everything that has happened, and conveying the impression that he has done nothing while all of the problems persisted, just isn't accurate. This is the type of post one makes when they have zero management or leadership experience. This is HIS department, he answers for the good and the bad and the ugly. A leader doesn't pass the buck or wash their hands clean. Anyone worth a damn as a leader would never accept repeated instances of someone being hired that they didn't want. I have no idea what kind of person Darg is but I've been in leadership positions for going on close to a decade and have had teams as large as 60 people report directly to me or various levels of management under me. This guy is WAY out of his depth! He needs to do what is right, not what is easy...saying it's not my fault is the easy way out.
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saints22
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Post by saints22 on Apr 5, 2018 9:09:56 GMT -5
Not a D'Arg fan by any means(I agree he has to go immediately) but in being fair to the guy, hard to fault JD on the Mitch hire. When you have the most successful coach in school history, "all" of the returning players (who were expecting to have another great year post Fran with all time program greats and seniors Rossiter and CJ and others like OD and Downey all returning), and I am sure, Brother Kevin and many big boosters pressuring him to just make the decision himself and follow his boss's lead and Fran's lead on this and make the transition seamless at the time by taking Mitch, it's hard to blame the guy on the actual Mitch hire. Anything after that is on him. That would be "Fr." Kevin, not "Brother" Kevin. Brother Ed is the current president at the school. Fran did not have any "lead" in the decision to hire Mitch. As is normal in hiring situations, he was contacted as the candidate's former boss, and provided input that was included in making the final decision. Nothing more. And as I just said in another post (and as I have said several other times whenever this issue comes up), the decision to hire Mitch was not made by John. He is not responsible for that hire. If it made sense to you, as you explain in your post, that's fine, but that hire was not John's recommendation or decision.
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saints22
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Post by saints22 on Apr 5, 2018 9:28:52 GMT -5
I've said it before, and I guess I have to say it again.........the last two Siena men's coaches were hired over John's recommendations. He is not responsible for those hires. I know that for a fact. You say that "Darg knew what was going on", which I assume refers to conduct toward people around the program. You're undoubtedly right, but how many posts have their been citing changes in Jimmy's on-court behavior in recent years because of what we all assumed were steps taken by John and others in the administration. I have to assume those steps would have also addressed any concerns about off the court conduct as well. So if John did know what was going on, something was done to respond to the concerns. And I don't disagree that recruiting has been a problem. But I don't know how much Jimmy's vacations had to do with it. Everybody is entitled to vacation time. I don't know what Siena's vacation policies are for people who work at the school, but I have to believe that any vacation time Jimmy took was consistent with the school's policies. John may have some responsibility with respect to the contract extensions, but I don't know that for a fact, and speculating that he is responsible for it, as many on here have, is nothing more than that, speculation. (I've heard that maybe we should be looking at some BoT members as the people responsible for this.) Maybe a change would be good for everyone, including John. But let's be fair. Blaming him for everything that has happened, and conveying the impression that he has done nothing while all of the problems persisted, just isn't accurate. This is the type of post one makes when they have zero management or leadership experience. This is HIS department, he answers for the good and the bad and the ugly. A leader doesn't pass the buck or wash their hands clean. Anyone worth a damn as a leader would never accept repeated instances of someone being hired that they didn't want. I have no idea what kind of person Darg is but I've been in leadership positions for going on close to a decade and have had teams as large as 60 people report directly to me or various levels of management under me. This guy is WAY out of his depth! He needs to do what is right, not what is easy...saying it's not my fault is the easy way out. Certainly appreciate your assessment of my "management or leadership experience" based on a post, but you're wrong. Have had much more than "zero" experience in both of those areas. And it all seems to have worked out fairly well for me. I was simply pointing out that the two most recent coaching hires for men's basketball cannot be blamed on John. You say that you're a manager/leader, so I assume that you know what working in an organization means. Unless your name is in the box at the top of that org chart (and John's is not on the Siena org chart), you likely don't always get to make the final decisions. And that being the case, you either live with the decision that was made, or you move on and find something else to do. To say that "Anyone worth a damn as a leader would never accept repeated instances of someone being hired that they didn't want." is cavalier, absurd and not based in reality. John didn't ".....pass the buck" or ".......wash their [his] hands clean". He stayed and tried to make the situations work for the betterment of his department and the school. And he never said ".....it's not my fault". I said that it wasn't his fault. Where do you come up with this stuff? Hard to believe you read the post, and then made the comments you did.
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Post by clickclack on Apr 5, 2018 9:33:27 GMT -5
This is the type of post one makes when they have zero management or leadership experience. This is HIS department, he answers for the good and the bad and the ugly. A leader doesn't pass the buck or wash their hands clean. Anyone worth a damn as a leader would never accept repeated instances of someone being hired that they didn't want. I have no idea what kind of person Darg is but I've been in leadership positions for going on close to a decade and have had teams as large as 60 people report directly to me or various levels of management under me. This guy is WAY out of his depth! He needs to do what is right, not what is easy...saying it's not my fault is the easy way out. Certainly appreciate your assessment of my "management or leadership experience" based on a post, but you're wrong. Have had much more than "zero" experience in both of those areas. And it all seems to have worked out fairly well for me. I was simply pointing out that the two most recent coaching hires for men's basketball cannot be blamed on John. You say that you're a manager/leader, so I assume that you know what working in an organization means. Unless your name is in the box at the top of that org chart (and John's is not on the Siena org chart), you likely don't always get to make the final decisions. And that being the case, you either live with the decision that was made, or you move on and find something else to do. To say that "Anyone worth a damn as a leader would never accept repeated instances of someone being hired that they didn't want." is cavalier, absurd and not based in reality. John didn't ".....pass the buck" or ".......wash their [his] hands clean". He stayed and tried to make the situations work for the betterment of his department and the school. And he never said ".....it's not my fault". I said that it wasn't his fault. Where do you come up with this stuff? Hard to believe you read the post, and then made the comments you did. You're right, he got you passing the buck for him. And yes, if he was repeatedly forced to hire people that he in his gut knew were NOT a good fit, he should have done the respectable thing and quit instead of now being strung up for allegedly making mistakes that as you point out were not his. Next you'll tell me that someone forced him to extend Patsos. He stayed and tried to make a situation work by what...offering him a contract extension. Put the bucket down you're carrying...
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saints22
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Post by saints22 on Apr 5, 2018 9:53:02 GMT -5
Certainly appreciate your assessment of my "management or leadership experience" based on a post, but you're wrong. Have had much more than "zero" experience in both of those areas. And it all seems to have worked out fairly well for me. I was simply pointing out that the two most recent coaching hires for men's basketball cannot be blamed on John. You say that you're a manager/leader, so I assume that you know what working in an organization means. Unless your name is in the box at the top of that org chart (and John's is not on the Siena org chart), you likely don't always get to make the final decisions. And that being the case, you either live with the decision that was made, or you move on and find something else to do. To say that "Anyone worth a damn as a leader would never accept repeated instances of someone being hired that they didn't want." is cavalier, absurd and not based in reality. John didn't ".....pass the buck" or ".......wash their [his] hands clean". He stayed and tried to make the situations work for the betterment of his department and the school. And he never said ".....it's not my fault". I said that it wasn't his fault. Where do you come up with this stuff? Hard to believe you read the post, and then made the comments you did. You're right, he got you passing the buck for him. And yes, if he was repeatedly forced to hire people that he in his gut knew were NOT a good fit, he should have done the respectable thing and quit instead of now being strung up for allegedly making mistakes that as you point out were not his. Next you'll tell me that someone forced him to extend Patsos. He stayed and tried to make a situation work by what...offering him a contract extension. Put the bucket down you're carrying... Ah, you did it again. I will not "Next....tell [you] that someone forced him to extend Patsos" because I already addressed that in my post. Here's what I said: "John may have some responsibility with respect to the contract extensions, but I don't know that for a fact, and speculating that he is responsible for it, as many on here have, is nothing more than that, speculation. (I've heard that maybe we should be looking at some BoT members as the people responsible for this.)" And he has not got me ".......passing the buck for him". Happy to do it all on my own.
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Post by SaintsFan on Apr 5, 2018 9:56:59 GMT -5
anyone know how many total sports programs are at siena and then how many teams actually have winning records this year?
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Post by clickclack on Apr 5, 2018 9:57:07 GMT -5
You're right, he got you passing the buck for him. And yes, if he was repeatedly forced to hire people that he in his gut knew were NOT a good fit, he should have done the respectable thing and quit instead of now being strung up for allegedly making mistakes that as you point out were not his. Next you'll tell me that someone forced him to extend Patsos. He stayed and tried to make a situation work by what...offering him a contract extension. Put the bucket down you're carrying... Ah, you did it again. I will not "Next....tell [you] that someone forced him to extend Patsos" because I already addressed that in my post. Here's what I said: "John may have some responsibility with respect to the contract extensions, but I don't know that for a fact, and speculating that he is responsible for it, as many on here have, is nothing more than that, speculation. (I've heard that maybe we should be looking at some BoT members as the people responsible for this.)" And he has not got me ".......passing the buck for him". Happy to do it all on my own. Convenient...so you know for a fact that he was forced to hire him or it wasn't his decision but conveniently when it comes to accountability for the contract extension you... ummm...
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Apr 5, 2018 10:14:56 GMT -5
Well it's done- agreed not good way- let's hope Siena doesnt compound this by letting Darg have any say in new coach. This B/S didnt happen in vacuum. Darg knew what was going on, Darg also let Jimmy vacation twice a month in off season every year- the seeds of this year's 8 win season were sown the least 5 years by the mistake after mistake Patsos made taking kids with little to no other offers, and his inability to win kids in competitive recruiting situations, his so called recruiting trips to west coast where he spent more time partying than he did recruiting. Hopefully a plan is in place to clean house and remove/ retire Darg. I hold him fully culpable for the current situation of the Siena program agree with sentiments about JP- this thread was about Darg- the incompetence of the man is astounding. He took a program that was one of the top programs not only in the MAAC, but one of the tops mids in the country and in 8 short years ran into the ground with unbelievably bad head coach choices and he compounded that by offering poorly thought out contracts, basically he failed to protect Siena’s interests, I've said it before, and I guess I have to say it again.........the last two Siena men's coaches were hired over John's recommendations. He is not responsible for those hires. I know that for a fact. You say that "Darg knew what was going on", which I assume refers to conduct toward people around the program. You're undoubtedly right, but how many posts have their been citing changes in Jimmy's on-court behavior in recent years because of what we all assumed were steps taken by John and others in the administration. I have to assume those steps would have also addressed any concerns about off the court conduct as well. So if John did know what was going on, something was done to respond to the concerns. And I don't disagree that recruiting has been a problem. But I don't know how much Jimmy's vacations had to do with it. Everybody is entitled to vacation time. I don't know what Siena's vacation policies are for people who work at the school, but I have to believe that any vacation time Jimmy took was consistent with the school's policies. John may have some responsibility with respect to the contract extensions, but I don't know that for a fact, and speculating that he is responsible for it, as many on here have, is nothing more than that, speculation. (I've heard that maybe we should be looking at some BoT members as the people responsible for this.) Maybe a change would be good for everyone, including John. But let's be fair. Blaming him for everything that has happened, and conveying the impression that he has done nothing while all of the problems persisted, just isn't accurate. Stop defending incompetence. Are you a close friend of this AD, if your in management and see the brass are making mistakes you go elsewhere, if he had he wouldn’t be in the situation he is in now. He gave the extensions, nor do I believe he did not have I put in ast 2 hires. If he did not he was a lame duck and should have been replaced by BOT admin immediately. WTF were they paying him for.
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Post by Tony on Apr 5, 2018 10:31:29 GMT -5
Sorry 22—I couldn’t disagree with you more- I think you are in a bit of revisionist history with last 2 coaches were hired over John’s recommendations. Total B/S . Not sure how much Mitch was John’s – but I can post links to John saying Mitch was his first choice, I should also add if John was respected would anyone have “gone” over his head. A bit of a stretch there.
As for Jimmy, 100% was tied to both Fr Kevin and John, John said so repeatedly. Jimmy was both John and Fr Kevin’s first choices, Like it or not Jimmy is tied to John .. I won’t even get into the crazy bad contracts John did with both Mitch and Jimmy
Bottom line here as AD John is responsible for both choices , the contracts are his- he “owns” them and should pay the appropriate price for the total mismanagement of the Siena program the last 8 years
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Post by blockhead43 on Apr 5, 2018 11:13:18 GMT -5
anyone know how many total sports programs are at siena and then how many teams actually have winning records this year? How about looking into his entire tenure? The athletic department during his time as AD has a winning percentage of less than .500, possibly as low as .425 percent. You can't call is entire body of work successful. And as far as the school's two marquis programs, well, he hasn't done very well with those recently, and has been inconsistent during his tenure at best. The bottom line is D'Argenio has been living an all-inclusive lifestyle while leading an athletic department that has been less than mediocre. Truthfully, he should have been shown the door after hiring 'Champagne' Bob Beyer and looking the other way while the head coach and several of his assistants acted like pole cats in heat on campus, hooking up with student-athletes and regular students as well. He knew what was going on, but refused to act in an attempt to cover his backside while knowing his first major hire was absolutely abysmal. He and JP should be shown the door on the same day. Let a new AD make the next hire. It won't matter if it is two days, two weeks or two months because next season looks to be a long one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 11:56:28 GMT -5
I've said it before, and I guess I have to say it again.........the last two Siena men's coaches were hired over John's recommendations. He is not responsible for those hires. I know that for a fact. You say that "Darg knew what was going on", which I assume refers to conduct toward people around the program. You're undoubtedly right, but how many posts have their been citing changes in Jimmy's on-court behavior in recent years because of what we all assumed were steps taken by John and others in the administration. I have to assume those steps would have also addressed any concerns about off the court conduct as well. So if John did know what was going on, something was done to respond to the concerns. And I don't disagree that recruiting has been a problem. But I don't know how much Jimmy's vacations had to do with it. Everybody is entitled to vacation time. I don't know what Siena's vacation policies are for people who work at the school, but I have to believe that any vacation time Jimmy took was consistent with the school's policies. John may have some responsibility with respect to the contract extensions, but I don't know that for a fact, and speculating that he is responsible for it, as many on here have, is nothing more than that, speculation. (I've heard that maybe we should be looking at some BoT members as the people responsible for this.) Maybe a change would be good for everyone, including John. But let's be fair. Blaming him for everything that has happened, and conveying the impression that he has done nothing while all of the problems persisted, just isn't accurate. Stop defending incompetence. Are you a close friend of this AD, if your in management and see the brass are making mistakes you go elsewhere, if he had he wouldn’t be in the situation he is in now. He gave the extensions, nor do I believe he did not have I put in ast 2 hires. If he did not he was a lame duck and should have been replaced by BOT admin immediately. WTF were they paying him for. Have to set the record straight - easy to blame D'Arg, after all he is the man in charge of the AD and Oh-no's boss - but believe me, S22 is in no way, shape or form defending incompetence. D'Arg had a chain of command above him like most people in any business. D'Arg had his own set of recommendations and they were set aside per the prerogative of those of higher rank/standing at the school. Being a good trooper, D'Arg accepted the party line and took a favorable position in the media - just like any of us would in our business settings - you may question your boss's decision but you'd be committing career suicide were you to express those views in the public domain. My problem with John came after both hires when "things" rose that should have been corrected, IMO, on the spot. Last year we saw a previous Oh-no player who had a stellar career here come out with various negatives about his prior "coach" - that should have raised the flags already flying to a higher level, and it apparently did not. The various tales of player and manager abuse that occurred during this past season clearly brought matters to a head. I feel very badly for the manager as it has been and undoubtedly will continue to be reported as him being the source. I wish that one or more of the Assistants, who likely were present during the "unibomber" or "insane" insults had the balls to go to D'Arg or Br. Ed. I'd guess Abe would, Jordan likely and Greg I'd put in the "not my job" category given how closely tied to Oh-no's liver he appears to be.
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ltf
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Post by ltf on Apr 5, 2018 13:32:51 GMT -5
Contract extension was for recruitment purposes, guaranteeing money was not to be included.. Guaranteeing money in the extension done by Darg- totally wrong, absolutely not done by him, could not be more inaccurate!
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