Papi
Assistant Coach
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Post by Papi on Mar 24, 2018 15:33:59 GMT -5
Yup was a tough year. I guess being one shot away from the NCAA tournament last season is long forgotten. Very disappointing season. 17-17. Monmouth game was pure Nico and a lot of luck. Not much to be proud of with the players we had. Most thought that was a 22-25 win season. Don't you dare say it was luck. Oh by the way Monmouth had 55 wins in two seasons and has the same number of NCAA appearances as every other maac team not named Iona.
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gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Mar 24, 2018 15:40:18 GMT -5
Too bad patsos was the coach—- any other good Siena coach plus Lanier would have won that game.
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Mar 24, 2018 15:41:50 GMT -5
Too bad patsos was the coach—- any other good Siena coach plus Lanier would have won that game. Typical answer.
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gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Mar 24, 2018 15:42:27 GMT -5
Too bad patsos was the coach—- any other good Siena coach plus Lanier would have won that game. Typical answer. To a typical papi post.
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gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Mar 24, 2018 15:44:41 GMT -5
HJ, great review of 'Vintage" in the Times Union by Steve Barnes. Congrats! Correction: the review was by Susan Davidson Powell. . It sounds like the owner hired top notch staff that is engaged with his vision, which makes him a very successful business person. Amazing how that works, isn’t it.
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Post by knicksaint on Mar 24, 2018 18:53:06 GMT -5
What should happen if in fact Patsos does not return as coach?
Should a new coach have more leeway with the roster than some of you think Patsos should have?
If as has been suggested, many of JP's recruits are better suited to D2, my understanding is that they could transfer to a D2 school and not have to sit out.
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bigsaintg
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Post by bigsaintg on Mar 24, 2018 19:39:15 GMT -5
What should happen if in fact Patsos does not return as coach? Should a new coach have more leeway with the roster than some of you think Patsos should have? If as has been suggested, many of JP's recruits are better suited to D2, my understanding is that they could transfer to a D2 school and not have to sit out. Let the new coach come in set a reasonable schedule, recruit some good kids and market the new direction aggressively. I think coaches should be able to take a juco here and there if the kid is a qualified student.
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Post by diamonddog on Mar 24, 2018 19:45:03 GMT -5
Watching Loyola Chicago win the South Regional, you cannot help but think what Siena could have been. However, Change will come at some point and we will rise again. Keep positive thoughts that this awful era will end. We just do not know when.
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Mar 24, 2018 20:00:45 GMT -5
Watching Loyola Chicago win the South Regional, you cannot help but think what Siena could have been. However, Change will come at some point and we will rise again. Keep positive thoughts that this awful era will end. We just do not know when. They had a 33 year drought from the tournament. I wonder how many fans quit on that program. Perfect Strom for them, got the right group of transfers. Coach will probably bolt in seventh year and really the only year they competed for a conference title. Great job by them and a fun team to watch and it was the perfect set up and yes luck. You don't win 3 games by 4 points without luck.
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Post by greenblood on Mar 24, 2018 20:06:35 GMT -5
You do in a winning mind set. We don't have a winning culture.
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indian82
Assistant Coach
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Post by indian82 on Mar 24, 2018 20:11:29 GMT -5
Guys, it’s not wrong to force kids out IMO. It sucks, don’t get me wrong BUT it’s what you sign up for when you play D1 ball. If kids can leave whenever they want and you aren’t going hold kids hostage when they ask their release (which is also wrong) there shouldn’t be a problem with Siena asking them to leave year to year as long as you tell them early (late March or early April) so they have plenty of time to find a new home (That Patsos should help find). Everyone runs off kids. It’s part of college basketball. Kids know what they are signing up for. Albany runs kids off, Iona runs kids off, Indiana runs kids off, Etc. Siena has to stop its holier than thou act if they want to win consistently at any level. If that means occasionally taking a JUCO or a low academic kid or a kid who has had some trouble in the past, I’m okay with that. A new coach we wind up with will have an extremely tall task in front of them if you aren’t going to accept kids transferring out or half the talent we want to bring in. Not saying it's not technically what they signed up for, but it doesn't make it right. That certainly may be the fine print somewhere. But let's talk about what they are really told (and sold) what they 'signed up for'. Like a poster here said, the process is that a coach and his assistants go out of their way to follow a kid for months, often years. Eventually goes into that kids home, speaks to one or both of his parents and tries to SELL that kid to come to his school to help that coach justify his salary. Probably a lot of BS and 'wining and dining'. That coach is now the authority figure/leader (maybe even surrogate father) to that 17 year old kid who could be miles from home and otherwise might not be able to attend school. I bet that sales pitch does not include that coach being upfront and telling that kid and his parents "But at any time I decide I don't need your services anymore, then I have every right to cut your scholarship out from under you., cut you loose and everything I just said is hogwash." When a school hires a coach and is required to pay him for the duration of the contract (often at least 5 years) regardless of that coaches success, I think a school should be obligated to back up what that coach told his recruits and support them for the normal duration of a college education. As I said before the kid should be obligated to uphold academic & character requirements. Instead, the coach can get a 'do-over' with his recruiting mistake by cutting the kid loose.
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Post by MTS on Mar 24, 2018 20:16:17 GMT -5
Watching Loyola Chicago win the South Regional, you cannot help but think what Siena could have been. However, Change will come at some point and we will rise again. Keep positive thoughts that this awful era will end. We just do not know when. Yeah it’s possible- we get a few breaks in 2009 maybe Siena goes. You can’t tell me that team wasn’t as good as Loyola. Loyola is very good but got a lot of luck won their first 3 games by 4 points and the highest seed they had to beat was a 3. They are much more like George Mason than Butler/VCU/Wichita. Sometimes God is playing in these games. Hopefully we will at least make the sweet 16 someday before we’re all Sister Jean’s age! 😅
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Mar 24, 2018 20:17:51 GMT -5
In my eyes it is no different then cutting a kid at any level...kids at this level understand that... It's a two way street, if a kid is not playing meaningful minutes he isn't helping the team other than a practice player cut him loose. There is no way you need a roster with 13 guys on scholarship, save a few for times like now and fill the roster with walk ons. So the Franciscan way should now be "The ends justifies the means." And the coach just gets a do-over on his recruiting mistakes and an 18-19 year old kid pays the price. Not surprised that's your philosophy. A kid recruited by the coach doesn't play 'meaningful minutes, gets shown the door, but the coach who recruited & signed him gets to be paid 400K+ regardless of the success of the team he recruited. Makes sense.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Mar 24, 2018 20:24:13 GMT -5
Bottom line it's a business, not Little League. People get fired over losing. Sure - People get fired for losing, but they continue to get paid until the end of the contract. Fine. Similarly, kick the kid off the team if you want, but the coach shouldn't get a 'do-over' and another scholly to replace him. And the school should be obligated to back their employee's decisions and honor 4 years of the kids education; again given the kid's academic & character requirements. And if this is such a 'business', then the kids should be treated similarly and not be susceptible to be told their services are no longer needed. My argument is the contract for a player/employee in this 'business' should be for 4 years. Or allow the kid to negotiate the length of his contract like a business would do, otherwise it is sort of like an advanced Little League for him.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Mar 24, 2018 20:29:41 GMT -5
Any coach we have hired mostly kept our “bag of crap” and won with them. Smh. Not everyone but I'm sure Deane, Hewitt, McCaffery all moved guys out. Fran not as many because he didn't have many players when he got the job. But Osby, Braga, Carr all were "moved on" let's not act like it didn't happen (and Fran brought those guys in). There's a right way to do it. Players can leave at anytime too - we lost McClinton, Kojo, Wormley etc it happens. My biggest issue is JP's recruiting has sucked so much he has to run his own guys off after his mistakes. I don't care who did it. It's still wrong. Don't put Fran on a fake pedestal over this. Sure, players can leave, but they have to sit a year, and like coaches who leave on their own also do not continue to get paid by the school. The contract should be for 4 years. And there's no difference between JP's mistakes and Fran's. They're still kids who were told and sold by either coach that he wanted them on his team.
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