OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Mar 11, 2018 21:35:27 GMT -5
Without going back and checking exact RPIs ... Top 50 program to a bottom 50. What else can you say! We didn’t capitalize on our success like a Davidson. Poor management / administrative decisions. Water under the bridge, time to correct and move on and see if we can recapture some of the spark. Until then Fran’s run was just a flash in the pan. Is it really a “flash in the pan” when it happens three years in a row? And when they were within thirty seconds of making it four in a row? “Flash in the pan” was referring to Fran’s success over his entire tenure and run not a particular year. Do you think we’ll be top 25-50 again anytime soon?
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Post by Tony on Mar 12, 2018 4:31:01 GMT -5
A BCS school wanted Fran and it forced us to try and repeat something that is rare, and duplicate it for a generally unrealistic fanbase. Wrong way of looking at it - what is rare is a mid-major with the fan base Siena has. Many mids with that built in advantage and a strong AD as taken advantage of that situation. If Siena had a competent AD , made good hires after Fran Siena would now be in the A10 getting 10k a game. Instead Siena is now a bottom third D1 program. There is not one program in the MAAC that wouldn’t trade for Siena’s so called unrealistic fan base. Whenever you have a large fan base they generally want more than 1 winning regular season in last 8 years , sorry that’s not unrealistic at all. Jimbo knew what the expectations were here and when he was hired. He actually talked about those expectations at his opening press conference. Bottom line here Jimmy isn’t anywhere near getting it done. I expect more than a 8-24 season 5 years into his tenure - that has nothing to do with unrealistic fan base
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Post by Tony on Mar 12, 2018 4:37:05 GMT -5
Rewind about 10 years. Siena and Davidson Discuss. Unbelievable how bad Siena administration has been. The almost couldn’t have been more incompetent if they tried to. Just one bad decision after another. Mitch was a horrible hire- not only did this administration sign him after a “sham” search they gave the failed coach a guaranteed 4 year deal. Mitch had no other options; he easily could have been signed for 4 year deal with 2 years guaranteed. That all was swept under the rug. Mitch was horrible with media, so again after yet another “sham” search- Jimmy was hired- a 9 year head coach with 500 record. Instead of watching him like a hawk- Darg hands the mad man the keys- looks the other way while Jimmy takes 2 vacations a month in off season. Siena now has a head coach with 1 winning regular season in 5 years here . Jimmy has proven he cannot recruit at Siena ( a little research by AD would have known that before he was hired) because the reality is Jimmy is recruiting exactly like he did at Loyola- he just can’t get the transfers here at Siena he got at Loyola . Despite all the above Jimmy has 3 year guaranteed left- this with a sub 500 record and 4 losing regular seasons out of 5 - to those Darg apologists out there- yes Darg has done some good things, far outnumbered by the bad, I don’t want to hear oh it was Fr Kevin this or that- fact is if we had a strong AD fr Kevin wouldn’t try to hire over him, or negotiate a contract – Darg gets bent over the table more often than not – So is it all Jimmy’s fault- no absolutely not . Darg has been incompetent as AD for a long time- the seeds for this year’s record setting losing season, well the table was set for that by horrible recruiting the last 5 years. Anyone paying close attention knew this seasons 24 loss year was coming - just 5 years after our last 24 loss season is unbelievable- Siena has an incompetent AD that has bungled every chance Siena had to become a consistent winner
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Mar 12, 2018 5:22:29 GMT -5
More like lightning in a bottle. It will happen again, trust me. What makes you think that? The luck that you talk about so much??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 6:03:16 GMT -5
Is it really a “flash in the pan” when it happens three years in a row? And when they were within thirty seconds of making it four in a row? “Flash in the pan” was referring to Fran’s success over his entire tenure and run not a particular year. Do you think we’ll be top 25-50 again anytime soon? The "Flash in the pan" comment could not be any more incorrect when applied to what Fran accomplished at Siena. What he brought to Siena was the result of a continued successful effort in all of his previous head coaching jobs to learn, apply, grow, learn, refine, apply,..., according to his plan which he never diverted from. When he took the Siena job he delivered exactly what he promised and what he had shown at his previous schools. As his career continued to mature, he maximized the use of Siena's resources and year in, year out success to the point where he was offered the Iowa job. Every move the man made at Siena was consistent with his coaching philosophy and abilities. Recruiting was aimed at finding talent, further developing that talent, molding that talent into a "team", maintaining balance and ensuring next year's team and the one after that would have the elements necessary to continue his success. I watched him recruit Melsahn Basabe and he and his staff worked their butts off to get his commitment. Fran recruited him, not Siena's reputation or resources. Not well known at the time, Melsahn had stated he would only come to Siena if Fran was still there. Wish I knew that at the time when it looked like Fran was stealing him, but that's another story. Fran's years at Siena were no chance happening and it can happen again with a little more serious work on the part of Siena's Administration. We've had two "I can do better if you give me a chance" coaches and both failed - lesson should be learned. We need a young, hungry, up and comer with experience gleaned at a successful Program. That experience could come from a winning D2 head coaching job, a D1 head coaching job at a successful program in a lower ranked conference, or, as an assistant at a higher level conference. It won't happen eating Italian food at a downtown Smallbany restaurant no matter how good the eggplant parm is!
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OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
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Post by OneIndian on Mar 12, 2018 7:04:05 GMT -5
“Flash in the pan” was referring to Fran’s success over his entire tenure and run not a particular year. Do you think we’ll be top 25-50 again anytime soon? The "Flash in the pan" comment could not be any more incorrect when applied to what Fran accomplished at Siena. What he brought to Siena was the result of a continued successful effort in all of his previous head coaching jobs to learn, apply, grow, learn, refine, apply,..., according to his plan which he never diverted from. When he took the Siena job he delivered exactly what he promised and what he had shown at his previous schools. As his career continued to mature, he maximized the use of Siena's resources and year in, year out success to the point where he was offered the Iowa job. Every move the man made at Siena was consistent with his coaching philosophy and abilities. Recruiting was aimed at finding talent, further developing that talent, molding that talent into a "team", maintaining balance and ensuring next year's team and the one after that would have the elements necessary to continue his success. I watched him recruit Melsahn Basabe and he and his staff worked their butts off to get his commitment. Fran recruited him, not Siena's reputation or resources. Not well known at the time, Melsahn had stated he would only come to Siena if Fran was still there. Wish I knew that at the time when it looked like Fran was stealing him, but that's another story. Fran's years at Siena were no chance happening and it can happen again with a little more serious work on the part of Siena's Administration. We've had two "I can do better if you give me a chance" coaches and both failed - lesson should be learned. We need a young, hungry, up and comer with experience gleaned at a successful Program. That experience could come from a winning D2 head coaching job, a D1 head coaching job at a successful program in a lower ranked conference, or, as an assistant at a higher level conference. It won't happen eating Italian food at a downtown Smallbany restaurant no matter how good the eggplant parm is! The topic is Siena v. Davidson tale of 2 programs, not So So v. Davidson. With all do respect MP...Fran's 3 year dominance where Siena had 3 straight NCAA appearances, 3 1st place finishes and 3 MAAC tournament championship is a "blip" / "flash in the pan" / "lightening in a bottle" when compared to Davidson's SUSTAINED SUCCESS 8 NCAA apperances,Sweet16, Elite 8, 4 NIT appearances, 11 1st place finishes and 7 Conference tournament champions when compared over the same near TWO DECADE stretch - Tale of 2 programs . While Fran had Siena in position to capitalize on his success (al be it brief when looked at over 2 decades & when compared to Davidson - threads topic) Siena failed to do so...and now we know the rest of the story! We are all well aware So So is an epic fail.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 7:51:49 GMT -5
The "Flash in the pan" comment could not be any more incorrect when applied to what Fran accomplished at Siena. What he brought to Siena was the result of a continued successful effort in all of his previous head coaching jobs to learn, apply, grow, learn, refine, apply,..., according to his plan which he never diverted from. When he took the Siena job he delivered exactly what he promised and what he had shown at his previous schools. As his career continued to mature, he maximized the use of Siena's resources and year in, year out success to the point where he was offered the Iowa job. Every move the man made at Siena was consistent with his coaching philosophy and abilities. Recruiting was aimed at finding talent, further developing that talent, molding that talent into a "team", maintaining balance and ensuring next year's team and the one after that would have the elements necessary to continue his success. I watched him recruit Melsahn Basabe and he and his staff worked their butts off to get his commitment. Fran recruited him, not Siena's reputation or resources. Not well known at the time, Melsahn had stated he would only come to Siena if Fran was still there. Wish I knew that at the time when it looked like Fran was stealing him, but that's another story. Fran's years at Siena were no chance happening and it can happen again with a little more serious work on the part of Siena's Administration. We've had two "I can do better if you give me a chance" coaches and both failed - lesson should be learned. We need a young, hungry, up and comer with experience gleaned at a successful Program. That experience could come from a winning D2 head coaching job, a D1 head coaching job at a successful program in a lower ranked conference, or, as an assistant at a higher level conference. It won't happen eating Italian food at a downtown Smallbany restaurant no matter how good the eggplant parm is! The topic is Siena v. Davidson tale of 2 programs, not So So v. Davidson. With all do respect MP...Fran's 3 year dominance where Siena had 3 straight NCAA appearances, 3 1st place finishes and 3 MAAC tournament championship is a "blip" / "flash in the pan" / "lightening in a bottle" when compared to Davidson's SUSTAINED SUCCESS 8 NCAA apperances,Sweet16, Elite 8, 4 NIT appearances, 11 1st place finishes and 7 Conference tournament champions when compared over the same near TWO DECADE stretch - Tale of 2 programs . While Fran had Siena in position to capitalize on his success (al be it brief when looked at over 2 decades & when compared to Davidson - threads topic) Siena failed to do so...and now we know the rest of the story! We are all well aware So So is an epic fail. I agree with you re a Siena vs Davidson comparison, but you fail to recognize my post was targeted at your comment being aimed exactly at Fran and his tenure at Siena - other Siena coaches like Mike and Paul also had success we would gladly have today...to me "flash in the pan" implies an accidental happening and Fran's success was, in no way, accidental. Now hiring Mitch and So-so turned into colossal fatal accidents - that could have been prevented...
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OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
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Post by OneIndian on Mar 12, 2018 8:02:28 GMT -5
The topic is Siena v. Davidson tale of 2 programs, not So So v. Davidson. With all do respect MP...Fran's 3 year dominance where Siena had 3 straight NCAA appearances, 3 1st place finishes and 3 MAAC tournament championship is a "blip" / "flash in the pan" / "lightening in a bottle" when compared to Davidson's SUSTAINED SUCCESS 8 NCAA apperances,Sweet16, Elite 8, 4 NIT appearances, 11 1st place finishes and 7 Conference tournament champions when compared over the same near TWO DECADE stretch - Tale of 2 programs . While Fran had Siena in position to capitalize on his success (al be it brief when looked at over 2 decades & when compared to Davidson - threads topic) Siena failed to do so...and now we know the rest of the story! We are all well aware So So is an epic fail. I agree with you re a Siena vs Davidson comparison, but you fail to recognize my post was targeted at your comment being aimed exactly at Fran and his tenure at Siena - other Siena coaches like Mike and Paul also had success we would gladly have today...to me "flash in the pan" implies an accidental happening and Fran's success was, in no way, accidental. Now hiring Mitch and So-so turned into colossal fatal accidents - that could have been prevented... Understood I just went back approx 20 years for comparison sake and Fran’s run was the closest period to match Davidson’ s success over a similar time period. While Mike and Paul were very successful their accomplishments still aren’t quite up to what Fran accomplished over that 3 year period. Btw I agree with your assessment in your initial post.
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Post by greengold4ever on Mar 12, 2018 8:15:34 GMT -5
the "edge" that Davidson has, is McKillop..........not surprising for their run since he has been there 20+ yrs..................one would say however, that it is an unusual circumstance that he has stayed all that time at one school, not typically the norm for a mid-major level...............
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Post by clickclack on Mar 12, 2018 8:26:29 GMT -5
Worst thing your AD ever did was not quickly recognize that he made a hiring mistake. He was unable to control himself and not only did he not see what was right in front of him, he actually doubled down on a terrible hand and extended him.
From an outsiders point of view, this is beyond egregious ESPECIALLY coming off the Mitch experiment. People in high positions such as this are normally very quick to recognize mistakes and correct them quickly not double down...your AD failed at the most critical part of his job and has done tremendous damage to your flagship program.
I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been fired!
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Post by gosaints on Mar 12, 2018 10:14:34 GMT -5
Worst thing your AD ever did was not quickly recognize that he made a hiring mistake. He was unable to control himself and not only did he not see what was right in front of him, he actually doubled down on a terrible hand and extended him. From an outsiders point of view, this is beyond egregious ESPECIALLY coming off the Mitch experiment. People in high positions such as this are normally very quick to recognize mistakes and correct them quickly not double down...your AD failed at the most critical part of his job and has done tremendous damage to your flagship program. I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been fired! Amen to that!
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Mar 12, 2018 12:47:34 GMT -5
Worst thing your AD ever did was not quickly recognize that he made a hiring mistake. He was unable to control himself and not only did he not see what was right in front of him, he actually doubled down on a terrible hand and extended him. From an outsiders point of view, this is beyond egregious ESPECIALLY coming off the Mitch experiment. People in high positions such as this are normally very quick to recognize mistakes and correct them quickly not double down...your AD failed at the most critical part of his job and has done tremendous damage to your flagship program. I'm honestly surprised he hasn't been fired! Good recognition, hit it out of the park, especially the firing part
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