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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 13:15:09 GMT -5
CC, Iona, and MU have shot 56% against us from 2 pt land this year.
CC only shot 32% from 3 against us and we lost both times. It took Iona shooting just 28% from 3 for us to win by just 2.
If you exclude the big 3 pt shooting game from Monmouth...Siena's giving up 57 of 79 pts (72%) per game...to 2pt shots and FTs to these teams. Don't tailor the defense to stop the 28% bucket of pts. Tailor it to stop the 72% bucket.
Otherwise, your only hopes are a prayer for a bad 3pt shooting peformance and a couple good bounces like the Iona win.
Siena is going NOWHERE until Jimmy figures this out.
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 17, 2017 13:37:12 GMT -5
CC, Iona, and MU have shot 56% against us from 2 pt land this year. CC only shot 32% from 3 against us and we lost both times. It took Iona shooting just 28% from 3 for us to win by just 2. If you exclude the big 3 pt shooting game from Monmouth...Siena's giving up 57 of 79 pts (72%) per game...to 2pt shots and FTs to these teams. Don't tailor the defense to stop the 28% bucket of pts. Tailor it to stop the 72% bucket. Otherwise, your only hopes are a prayer for a bad 3pt shooting peformance and a couple good bounces like the Iona win. Siena is going NOWHERE until Jimmy figures this out. it seems like there are only a FEW of us (wink) that understand the type of defense this team should be employing...............although the press was really effective last night, which to me was a big surprise, Jaspers are a team who thrive on doing that to opponents but they were completely perplexed trying to figure ours out, 4 straight turnovers at one point..............but JP only mixed in a few zones last night overall, it was strictly man (and then the fouls piled up), then he scrapped the zones when X Turner hit 2 tremendously long bombs from 25+ ft out..........who the F cares, that's what you want the opponents to do (same goes for mini midget Justin Robinson), make them chuck it up from really deep, they aren't going to hit them at a good percentage all game, no way jose....................IF the coaching staff puts down their "pride/ego", and sticks with the zone D (mostly just 2-3 variety), and IF they can get the 5 core players (seniors + Nico) to get close to double digit points each then they could cut down the nets on that Monday in March (that miracle 2002 run had the 5 starters averaging double figures as well, just sayin').....otherwise we will see pretty much what we have seen in our head scratching losses, could be a 1 and done run in the tourney.............
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 14:01:55 GMT -5
CC, Iona, and MU have shot 56% against us from 2 pt land this year. CC only shot 32% from 3 against us and we lost both times. It took Iona shooting just 28% from 3 for us to win by just 2. If you exclude the big 3 pt shooting game from Monmouth...Siena's giving up 57 of 79 pts (72%) per game...to 2pt shots and FTs to these teams. Don't tailor the defense to stop the 28% bucket of pts. Tailor it to stop the 72% bucket. Otherwise, your only hopes are a prayer for a bad 3pt shooting peformance and a couple good bounces like the Iona win. Siena is going NOWHERE until Jimmy figures this out. it seems like there are only a FEW of us (wink) that understand the type of defense this team should be employing...............although the press was really effective last night, which to me was a big surprise, Jaspers are a team who thrive on doing that to opponents but they were completely perplexed trying to figure ours out, 4 straight turnovers at one point..............but JP only mixed in a few zones last night overall, it was strictly man (and then the fouls piled up), then he scrapped the zones when X Turner hit 2 tremendously long bombs from 25+ ft out..........who the F cares, that's what you want the opponents to do (same goes for mini midget Justin Robinson), make them chuck it up from really deep, they aren't going to hit them at a good percentage all game, no way jose....................IF the coaching staff puts down their "pride/ego", and sticks with the zone D (mostly just 2-3 variety), and IF they can get the 5 core players (seniors + Nico) to get close to double digit points each then they could cut down the nets on that Monday in March (that miracle 2002 run had the 5 starters averaging double figures as well, just sayin').....otherwise we will see pretty much what we have seen in our head scratching losses, could be a 1 and done run in the tourney............. Manhattan had 40 turnovers in one game this year. I wouldn't use them as a good barometer for Siena's press. Siena could have had a tea party in the middle of the court instead of playing and Manhattan still would have turned it over at least 10 times.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Feb 17, 2017 14:04:59 GMT -5
The not so fearsome foursome of Fisher, Richard, Shivers, and Smithen combined for 38 minutes with 8 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 7 turnovers, and 5 fouls. Not much better than the Monmouth game.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Feb 17, 2017 14:14:49 GMT -5
Must have been your presence in the building. Hopefully someday the Siena program will get out in front again, and you can jump back on board. Afterall where would a program be without their die-hard, true blue fans? those days are over. I rode through Beyer Lanier and Mitch. At some point you decide to stop throwing good money after bad. Those attached to the school, i can understand your struggle. Many of you are business people and I find it very interesting to watch the dynamic. You people wouldnt continue to support a business that did business this way. If you owned a bar/restaurant ;-) how fast would you go under if you threw a shit product out to your customers most nights? For some reason this business is looked at differently. There is no accountability what so ever. and a LOT of money flowing. It's a business for the school to make money, but that has nothing to do with the support of real fans that love the team, win or lose. We're not Duke where winning is always part of the equation. We cant keep a Fran here for 30 years and win 25 games every year. Doesn't exist on this level. You dont think there's diehard fans at Rider, Marist, St. Peters etc.....that want to win every year too?? What do they do? Wait 10-20 years before they win consistently win before they support the team? Our mega-success years ago has ruined the expectations of most out here. It's the "Yankees attitude." Who, if you ask their fansm they should win the WS every year. It's their right? Mike Trout and Bryce Harper should be in pinstripes because we deserve them?? Going to all the home games is very affordable for 95% of people that follow the team. The few hundred dollars necessary for season tickets wont put anyone in the poor house, and if does, dont go. You dont like the product, dont sit mid-court where you feel like you're not getting your moneys worth. Sit off the baseline. Support the team out here, or by watching on the TV, computer whatever. Why cant "fans" just support the kids playing? You can hate the AD, the HC all you want. But dont the student/athletes at Siena deserve that support? We've got people out here talking out both sides of their faces saying I'm out of line if I rip a senior for missing lay-ups, YET they wont go to the games because it's a "business?" Which is it?
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Post by hoopsforever on Feb 17, 2017 14:33:54 GMT -5
The not so fearsome foursome of Fisher, Richard, Shivers, and Smithen combined for 38 minutes with 8 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 7 turnovers, and 5 fouls. Not much better than the Monmouth game. I don't think you can include Kadeemer in that "foursome" of yours - the kid is high energy on defense - good defense is not just measured by blocks and steals - the kid is one hard worker for every second he is allowed to be on the court -
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Feb 17, 2017 14:45:25 GMT -5
The not so fearsome foursome of Fisher, Richard, Shivers, and Smithen combined for 38 minutes with 8 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 7 turnovers, and 5 fouls. Not much better than the Monmouth game. I don't think you can include Kadeemer in that "foursome" of yours - the kid is high energy on defense - good defense is not just measured by blocks and steals - the kid is one hard worker for every second he is allowed to be on the court - He has not been playing well lately either. The reality is that a run in the MAAC Tournament is only going to happen if at least one and probably two of those four can step up and give Siena some quality production. Smithen and Richard looked like they could be those guys but they are going backwards at this point.
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 17, 2017 14:59:56 GMT -5
The not so fearsome foursome of Fisher, Richard, Shivers, and Smithen combined for 38 minutes with 8 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 7 turnovers, and 5 fouls. Not much better than the Monmouth game. contrary to what many believe.............not essential that you get a ton from them, just solid D, make some plays and if offense presents itself then great, but we have enough fire power from the core 5 to win games ...........it is the defense that is our biggest culprit..........and JP's crazy sub patterns, you can't have 3 bench guys in at the same time..............ugh................
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 17, 2017 15:00:56 GMT -5
it seems like there are only a FEW of us (wink) that understand the type of defense this team should be employing...............although the press was really effective last night, which to me was a big surprise, Jaspers are a team who thrive on doing that to opponents but they were completely perplexed trying to figure ours out, 4 straight turnovers at one point..............but JP only mixed in a few zones last night overall, it was strictly man (and then the fouls piled up), then he scrapped the zones when X Turner hit 2 tremendously long bombs from 25+ ft out..........who the F cares, that's what you want the opponents to do (same goes for mini midget Justin Robinson), make them chuck it up from really deep, they aren't going to hit them at a good percentage all game, no way jose....................IF the coaching staff puts down their "pride/ego", and sticks with the zone D (mostly just 2-3 variety), and IF they can get the 5 core players (seniors + Nico) to get close to double digit points each then they could cut down the nets on that Monday in March (that miracle 2002 run had the 5 starters averaging double figures as well, just sayin').....otherwise we will see pretty much what we have seen in our head scratching losses, could be a 1 and done run in the tourney............. Manhattan had 40 turnovers in one game this year. I wouldn't use them as a good barometer for Siena's press. Siena could have had a tea party in the middle of the court instead of playing and Manhattan still would have turned it over at least 10 times. with all due respect KK, that game was against West Virginia, the Mountaineers lead the country in turning teams over, they got Baylor & Kansas well over 20 in games as well..............
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 17, 2017 15:02:52 GMT -5
I don't think you can include Kadeemer in that "foursome" of yours - the kid is high energy on defense - good defense is not just measured by blocks and steals - the kid is one hard worker for every second he is allowed to be on the court - He has not been playing well lately either. The reality is that a run in the MAAC Tournament is only going to happen if at least one and probably two of those four can step up and give Siena some quality production. Smithen and Richard looked like they could be those guys but they are going backwards at this point. production in pts in not essential...........but if you mean just solid production when on the floor, playing D, rebounding, etc.......then yes that is true...........if the core scores, they will win.........key is having the core OUT of foul trouble and rested at times, so JP has to mix-match wisely when subbing out and of course play ZONE DEFENSE................
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Post by MTS on Feb 17, 2017 15:10:09 GMT -5
those days are over. I rode through Beyer Lanier and Mitch. At some point you decide to stop throwing good money after bad. Those attached to the school, i can understand your struggle. Many of you are business people and I find it very interesting to watch the dynamic. You people wouldnt continue to support a business that did business this way. If you owned a bar/restaurant ;-) how fast would you go under if you threw a shit product out to your customers most nights? For some reason this business is looked at differently. There is no accountability what so ever. and a LOT of money flowing. It's a business for the school to make money, but that has nothing to do with the support of real fans that love the team, win or lose. We're not Duke where winning is always part of the equation. We cant keep a Fran here for 30 years and win 25 games every year. Doesn't exist on this level. You dont think there's diehard fans at Rider, Marist, St. Peters etc.....that want to win every year too?? What do they do? Wait 10-20 years before they win consistently win before they support the team? Our mega-success years ago has ruined the expectations of most out here. It's the "Yankees attitude." Who, if you ask their fansm they should win the WS every year. It's their right? Mike Trout and Bryce Harper should be in pinstripes because we deserve them?? Going to all the home games is very affordable for 95% of people that follow the team. The few hundred dollars necessary for season tickets wont put anyone in the poor house, and if does, dont go. You dont like the product, dont sit mid-court where you feel like you're not getting your moneys worth. Sit off the baseline. Support the team out here, or by watching on the TV, computer whatever. Why cant "fans" just support the kids playing? You can hate the AD, the HC all you want. But dont the student/athletes at Siena deserve that support? We've got people out here talking out both sides of their faces saying I'm out of line if I rip a senior for missing lay-ups, YET they wont go to the games because it's a "business?" Which is it? Some people do expect to win it all every year but when you've gone 7 years without a MAAC finals appearance or even NIT trip you can see how rational people are pissed. Siena's not used to this kind of drought since their first postseason bid in 1988 this is the longest stretch without either an NCAA or NIT bid. The CBI was nice during JP's first year but after winning it there's not much luster going back to the C tournaments - nobody supports them. When you get smoked by conference foes like Monmouth the other night red flags should go up on recruiting. Our talent level is not at the level it needs to be to go to the NCAA tournament.
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Post by gosaints on Feb 17, 2017 15:18:31 GMT -5
He has not been playing well lately either. The reality is that a run in the MAAC Tournament is only going to happen if at least one and probably two of those four can step up and give Siena some quality production. Smithen and Richard looked like they could be those guys but they are going backwards at this point. production in pts in not essential...........but if you mean just solid production when on the floor, playing D, rebounding, etc.......then yes that is true...........if the core scores, they will win.........key is having the core OUT of foul trouble and rested at times, so JP has to mix-match wisely when subbing out and of course play ZONE DEFENSE................ He also has to start letting the subs play thru mistakes (although its probably to late for that) and stop putting his starters back into the game early in the first half after they've pick up 2 fouls. I believe he did it again in the Manhattan game with Lavon, when he didn't need to because they had good lead, and dodged a bullet.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Feb 17, 2017 15:33:42 GMT -5
The not so fearsome foursome of Fisher, Richard, Shivers, and Smithen combined for 38 minutes with 8 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 7 turnovers, and 5 fouls. Not much better than the Monmouth game. contrary to what many believe.............not essential that you get a ton from them, just solid D, make some plays and if offense presents itself then great, but we have enough fire power from the core 5 to win games ...........it is the defense that is our biggest culprit..........and JP's crazy sub patterns, you can't have 3 bench guys in at the same time..............ugh................ Looking back at past MAAC champs: 2016 - Iona had 6 guys get at least 10 points or 5 rebounds in a tourney game plus Ibn Muhammed 2015 - Manhattan had 6 guys get at least 10 points or 5 rebounds in a tourney game plus Tyler Wilson and Rich Williams 2014 - Manhattan had 6 guys get at least 10 points or 5 rebounds in a tourney game plus RaShawn Stores and Donovan Kates 2013 - Iona did it mostly on the backs of 5 guys with Tavon Sledge as their 6th man, they lucked into a 9-9 Manhattan team in the finals 2012 - Loyola had 7 guys get at least 10 points, 5 rebounds, or 5 assists in a tourney game 2011 - St Peter's had 6 guys get at least 10 points or 5 rebounds in a tourney game 2010 - Siena had 7 guys get at least 10 points or 5 rebounds in a tourney game plus Downey 2009 - Siena had 7 guys get at least 10 points or 5 rebounds in a tourney game plus Downey and Duell 2008 - Siena relied on 5 guys but also had Josh Duell and Clarence Jackson So had to go back 9 years to find a second team that didn't have at least 6 guys that could impact the box score. Right now I don't see any of those four capable of putting up 10 points, 5 boards, or 5 assists in a game and that is a problem. Really tough to win 3 straight in one weekend with all the contributions coming from 5 guys. And our 5 are certainly not as good as the Siena 5 in 2008 or the Iona 5 in 2013.
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 17, 2017 15:38:29 GMT -5
contrary to what many believe.............not essential that you get a ton from them, just solid D, make some plays and if offense presents itself then great, but we have enough fire power from the core 5 to win games ...........it is the defense that is our biggest culprit..........and JP's crazy sub patterns, you can't have 3 bench guys in at the same time..............ugh................ Looking back at past MAAC champs: 2016 - Iona had 6 guys get at least 10 points or 5 rebounds in a tourney game plus Ibn Muhammed 2015 - Manhattan had 6 guys get at least 10 points or 5 rebounds in a tourney game plus Tyler Wilson and Rich Williams 2014 - Manhattan had 6 guys get at least 10 points or 5 rebounds in a tourney game plus RaShawn Stores and Donovan Kates 2013 - Iona did it mostly on the backs of 5 guys with Tavon Sledge as their 6th man, they lucked into a 9-9 Manhattan team in the finals 2012 - Loyola had 7 guys get at least 10 points, 5 rebounds, or 5 assists in a tourney game 2011 - St Peter's had 6 guys get at least 10 points or 5 rebounds in a tourney game 2010 - Siena had 7 guys get at least 10 points or 5 rebounds in a tourney game plus Downey 2009 - Siena had 7 guys get at least 10 points or 5 rebounds in a tourney game plus Downey and Duell 2008 - Siena relied on 5 guys but also had Josh Duell and Clarence Jackson So had to go back 9 years to find a second team that didn't have at least 6 guys that could impact the box score. Right now I don't see any of those four capable of putting up 10 points, 5 boards, or 5 assists in a game and that is a problem. Really tough to win 3 straight in one weekend with all the contributions coming from 5 guys. And our 5 are certainly not as good as the Siena 5 in 2008 or the Iona 5 in 2013. but OUR 5 all score in double figures.........no other group had that back then, nor does any other maac team have that now..........
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 17, 2017 15:39:50 GMT -5
production in pts in not essential...........but if you mean just solid production when on the floor, playing D, rebounding, etc.......then yes that is true...........if the core scores, they will win.........key is having the core OUT of foul trouble and rested at times, so JP has to mix-match wisely when subbing out and of course play ZONE DEFENSE................ He also has to start letting the subs play thru mistakes (although its probably to late for that) and stop putting his starters back into the game early in the first half after they've pick up 2 fouls. I believe he did it again in the Manhattan game with Lavon, when he didn't need to because they had good lead, and dodged a bullet. I agree, but Richard lately has just been awful..........that injury killed his momentum and since his return he has looked every bit the scared freshman........if he can get his mojo back, that would be a big plus because he is the one sub and put the ball in the basket...............
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