greengold4ever
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 23, 2017 11:25:55 GMT -5
as it was mentioned in another thread.........it could be that finally Patsos is playing guys specifically in the roles that they should have been playing all along............there should have never been any shred of doubt who the PG should be, doesn't matter that he could end up being an aggressive scorer, but Wright clearly stirs the drink.......Brett, can be the stretch 4 or even post 5 as needed.........Lavon quite a bit more under control, being allowed to take advantage of mismatches on the offensive end.........Richard now earning starter minutes, getting more comfortable & confident, not shouldering a big load but gaining experience with steady play..............Kadeem, perhaps now seeing he is the energy guy off the bench, maybe less pressure by not starting he is able to provide good value when on the court.......ditto for Shivers, another junk yard dog type player who hopefully can contribute more consistently under this role.........EF, Friday, WB( ?), bigs who play the post, concentrate on rebounding & defending (again defined roles they can strive for, aggressive on offense in low block).............this is certainly happening during this stretch of better play..........and amid some of the talk here that we don't have shooters (because 3pt percentage overall is very poor), it is ONLY because not everyone should be launching 3pointers..........Wright, Bisping, Richard and yes now Long are all capable, in fact all are shooting at a 35% clip or better, but there are others who have been letting them fly without hesitation, and some of those others have horrible percentages bringing down the team number in that category (JO, Kadeem, Shivers, EF and even Nico)........JP should have put the leash on some of the these guys, it doesn't mean they can't get up that type of shot when wide open, but basically in the flow of the game, that long range shot for them is not in the agenda (Nico would be the exception, but it was pretty clear with his knee not being as healthy that he would rather settle for a bad long bomb rather than exploding to the rack for an easier bucket attempt)..............team is now rounding into solid FT shooting form as well, pct up to 71% overall, desperately need to keep that number going forward in what will be some tough remaining games..................one player not mentioned above is JO, and not to pile on him (just see what the dailydose listed as mid-season all league players, no mention of him and he was pre-season 1st team nominee), but his play of late has not been good, as earlier in the yr he was much more consistent.......his shot blocking is still a prominent part of the defense but his overall rebounding is not where it should be, at 6'10" he should be getting more than 5.8 per game, while his offense has been invisible in way too many contests lately........hopefully, he can pick it up down the stretch, because he is so very capable of putting up double-doubles in most games and that would go along way with propelling this team towards the goal we all thought they could possibly achieve.............lastly, JP needs to continue to nurture these roles for these guys and get in the ZONE, and I mean literally in the zone as in zone defense........again, playing man in situations is fine, but this team defensively is sooooooooo much better when playing the various zones they employ, in addition it knocks the fouls "against us" number down dramatically.................here's hoping to a healthy & positive week of practice/prep for the game vs. Iona on Friday!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 15:03:19 GMT -5
JO was never a good rebounder.
As far as threes:
Bisping should have been the focus of the offense from day 1 with JO and Lavon attacking the rim or midrange with him. He, Richard, and Wright (after his breakout year last year) should have always been the primary 3 pt shooters. Bisping should have been featured all over the floor as much as possible. Lots of him at the top of the key and the foul line with screens etc.
Clareth should have been told 'you get to shoot 60-80 threes on the year. Choose wisely.' Not a pace for like 270+. Green light for attacking the rim...yes.. 3's absolutely not. That's on the coach.
JO, Shivers, & Smithen should have been told to shoot threes only in end of shot clock situations, period.
Lavon could have always shot more than he has...but still relegated to maybe a three or 2 a game when open just to keep teams honest.
And Fisher, well, I'm not sure he should have been playing over WB or Friday in the first place. I would have gone defense and rebounding from the backup big position from day 1. I would have done this and acknowledged that we were at least a 50/50 zone/man team. If the defense still sucked like it did early, I would have gone more zone and maybe just focused more on switching up the zone types.
Richard should have assumed the Ryan Oliver role immediately as his jumper/pull up/floater game is the closest to Oliver's on the team. I thought this was what he was brought in for. We knew the kid wasn't elite on defense and that would be his primary issue. This is why the zone makes even more sense when he's out there.
And, most importantly, Wright should have been primary PG always.
Even with suspensions Siena should have had about a 17-4 or 16-5 record right now. So the difference between that and 9-12 is what I hold JP accountable for because of the above reasons. I think the lack of discipline, shot distribution, rotation, and play calling cost Siena 7 or 8 games that they would have otherwise won.
The fact that Bisping came out of the gate as largely an afterthought in the offensive schemes is mindboggling to me. Siena had 1 primary advantage: high FG% offense because they attacked the rim, focused on 2s, got to the line, and, if not, they got the offensive board.
The fact that JP was so worried about 3 point shooting, Nico was gunning, and he inserted Fisher in there is proof that JP had them going in the wrong direction since workouts started in the fall. After 4 years of these guys, everyone knows how these guys play and what they're best at. Or so I thought.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 15:09:44 GMT -5
With that said, can Siena still win the tourney and go to the NCAAs?
Yes. If JP continues with the above thought process going forward, I think they can. This team knows how to win. They've just been given dementia.
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Post by Tony on Jan 23, 2017 18:11:03 GMT -5
JO was never a good rebounder. As far as threes: Bisping should have been the focus of the offense from day 1 with JO and Lavon attacking the rim or midrange with him. He, Richard, and Wright (after his breakout year last year) should have always been the primary 3 pt shooters. Bisping should have been featured all over the floor as much as possible. Lots of him at the top of the key and the foul line with screens etc. Clareth should have been told 'you get to shoot 60-80 threes on the year. Choose wisely.' Not a pace for like 270+. Green light for attacking the rim...yes.. 3's absolutely not. That's on the coach. JO, Shivers, & Smithen should have been told to shoot threes only in end of shot clock situations, period. Lavon could have always shot more than he has...but still relegated to maybe a three or 2 a game when open just to keep teams honest. And Fisher, well, I'm not sure he should have been playing over WB or Friday in the first place. I would have gone defense and rebounding from the backup big position from day 1. I would have done this and acknowledged that we were at least a 50/50 zone/man team. If the defense still sucked like it did early, I would have gone more zone and maybe just focused more on switching up the zone types. Richard should have assumed the Ryan Oliver role immediately as his jumper/pull up/floater game is the closest to Oliver's on the team. I thought this was what he was brought in for. We knew the kid wasn't elite on defense and that would be his primary issue. This is why the zone makes even more sense when he's out there. And, most importantly, Wright should have been primary PG always. Even with suspensions Siena should have had about a 17-4 or 16-5 record right now. So the difference between that and 9-12 is what I hold JP accountable for because of the above reasons. I think the lack of discipline, shot distribution, rotation, and play calling cost Siena 7 or 8 games that they would have otherwise won. The fact that Bisping came out of the gate as largely an afterthought in the offensive schemes is mindboggling to me. Siena had 1 primary advantage: high FG% offense because they attacked the rim, focused on 2s, got to the line, and, if not, they got the offensive board. The fact that JP was so worried about 3 point shooting, Nico was gunning, and he inserted Fisher in there is proof that JP had them going in the wrong direction since workouts started in the fall. After 4 years of these guys, everyone knows how these guys play and what they're best at. Or so I thought. Good post-- and pretty much agree with all of it
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jan 23, 2017 18:59:26 GMT -5
đź‘ŤI'll second that, good post KK
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Post by MTS on Jan 23, 2017 19:04:21 GMT -5
I agree with KK's post too - don't know about 17-4/16-5 but no way we should be 9-12 - the team you've seen in the past several games shows that. Should be about 14-7, 13-8 I think we overrated the talent at least on the bench. Can we win the tournament? I want to see what we do against Monmouth and Iona before formulating an opinion on that. Siena has been very good at the TUC outside of the Vermont game so that could be huge in March.
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greengold4ever
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 23, 2017 19:51:35 GMT -5
this is the biggest ISSUE with JP..............he wasn't playing to his individual players strengths, nor was he playing to his team's strengths.............no friggin' excuse at all for him, this is year 4 with HIS core of recruited players...................either he is dumb as a box of rocks or just one stubborn MFer!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by psycholojets on Jan 23, 2017 20:59:45 GMT -5
No chance at all he was trying to develop the kids rather than playing 8 guys all season this year and then worrying about next year next year.
I think most fans are too short sighted to really get what player development means. I have also seen people say JP suddenly figured out what Richard could be rather than understanding that he wasn't quite ready to be what he is now.
I have never been to practice so I don't know what the guys look like there, but I would guess and hope that practice performance is the prime determinant of playing time.
Sent from my SM-G900P using proboards
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 5:00:45 GMT -5
No chance at all he was trying to develop the kids rather than playing 8 guys all season this year and then worrying about next year next year. I think most fans are too short sighted to really get what player development means. I have also seen people say JP suddenly figured out what Richard could be rather than understanding that he wasn't quite ready to be what he is now. I have never been to practice so I don't know what the guys look like there, but I would guess and hope that practice performance is the prime determinant of playing time. Sent from my SM-G900P using proboards Good gosh man, ride your fastest horses in the biggest races. This is his year, player development for next year shouldn't be the reason for this record. If player development throughout the season were the case then there'd certainly be more contributors here that have made the decision to transfer. Short sighted, bah humbug. KK had this nailed down before the first game. What took this staff so long to recognize the error in their ways?
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Post by Tony on Jan 24, 2017 5:50:34 GMT -5
No chance at all he was trying to develop the kids rather than playing 8 guys all season this year and then worrying about next year next year. I think most fans are too short sighted to really get what player development means. I have also seen people say JP suddenly figured out what Richard could be rather than understanding that he wasn't quite ready to be what he is now. I have never been to practice so I don't know what the guys look like there, but I would guess and hope that practice performance is the prime determinant of playing time. Sent from my SM-G900P using proboards While I tend to agree with your statement about player development – I have some serious concerns. You are right Coach sees the players every day in practice – what was he seeing early in the year when he was insisting on playing EF 20 min a game. And Nico was chucking up 20-25 shots a game Team started season in chaos - players seemed unaware of their roles. All of the new guys were playing extremely tentative. One mistake and they would be yanked. There was no rhyme or reason to his substitutions. Richards would go from 20+ one game to 3 min the next. Same deal with Shivers and Smithin- all 3 players have greatly improved since Nico’s departure with a clearer definition of their roles I don’t have to be a D1 coach to know we came into season with 4 -1,000 point scorers- all with some weakness, but some ability to put ball in hoop. It was up to coach to get Nico to buy in- we had some indications of trouble last year when we saw Quis and Wright did not mesh well at end of last season when Quis came back. Again after those 5—I don’t have to be A D1 coach to see the next 3 players were Richards, Smithin and Shivers. Instead of going with his best 8- he tried to shoehorn EF into playing group at detriment of player development of above 3. At same time EF had worst plus minus of any player in MAAC in playing rotation I won’t even get into early season game prep and planning that at times seemed non existent I get the early season suspensions didn’t help- I also get we don’t know what was really going on with Nico- but this team had way too much talent to get off to start they did. But lack of planning, discipline and player development is squarely on shoulders of head coach.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 6:12:36 GMT -5
No chance at all he was trying to develop the kids rather than playing 8 guys all season this year and then worrying about next year next year. I think most fans are too short sighted to really get what player development means. I have also seen people say JP suddenly figured out what Richard could be rather than understanding that he wasn't quite ready to be what he is now. I have never been to practice so I don't know what the guys look like there, but I would guess and hope that practice performance is the prime determinant of playing time. Sent from my SM-G900P using proboards Hmmmmm....JP is on record saying his plan was a Five Year Plan...this is only year 4......hmmmmm.....you may be seeing the forest....
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mjs72
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Post by mjs72 on Jan 24, 2017 6:52:43 GMT -5
No chance at all he was trying to develop the kids rather than playing 8 guys all season this year and then worrying about next year next year. I think most fans are too short sighted to really get what player development means. I have also seen people say JP suddenly figured out what Richard could be rather than understanding that he wasn't quite ready to be what he is now. I have never been to practice so I don't know what the guys look like there, but I would guess and hope that practice performance is the prime determinant of playing time. Sent from my SM-G900P using proboards While I tend to agree with your statement about player development – I have some serious concerns. You are right Coach sees the players every day in practice – what was he seeing early in the year when he was insisting on playing EF 20 min a game. And Nico was chucking up 20-25 shots a game Team started season in chaos - players seemed unaware of their roles. All of the new guys were playing extremely tentative. One mistake and they would be yanked. There was no rhyme or reason to his substitutions. Richards would go from 20+ one game to 3 min the next. Same deal with Shivers and Smithin- all 3 players have greatly improved since Nico’s departure with a clearer definition of their roles I don’t have to be a D1 coach to know we came into season with 4 -1,000 point scorers- all with some weakness, but some ability to put ball in hoop. It was up to coach to get Nico to buy in- we had some indications of trouble last year when we saw Quis and Wright did not mesh well at end of last season when Quis came back. Again after those 5—I don’t have to be A D1 coach to see the next 3 players were Richards, Smithin and Shivers. Instead of going with his best 8- he tried to shoehorn EF into playing group at detriment of player development of above 3. At same time EF had worst plus minus of any player in MAAC in playing rotation I won’t even get into early season game prep and planning that at times seemed non existent I get the early season suspensions didn’t help- I also get we don’t know what was really going on with Nico- but this team had way too much talent to get off to start they did. But lack of planning, discipline and player development is squarely on shoulders of head coach. Tony, don't disagree with this or KK's analysis but a couple more FTs, shots or stops and all those close early season games could have been Ws even with all the chaos etc.
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Post by SaintsFan on Jan 24, 2017 8:40:10 GMT -5
Something that is a bit lost in the discussion is that yes, the stretch of this many games over a short period is grueling ... the schedule also afforded siena the softest part of its schedule to date. The average RPI of Siena's opponents prior to this run was around 155. If you leave out Kansas that bumps it to 166. The average RPI over this six game stretch was 201 and those teams are slated to finish with an average RPI of around 209. The run minus St Peters was against the bottom part of the conference. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next 10. 5 are against the top half of the conference and 5 against the bottom. 4 of the next six against the top half. The team does look a little more cohesive but I would be cautious on expectations.
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greengold4ever
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 24, 2017 9:45:10 GMT -5
Something that is a bit lost in the discussion is that yes, the stretch of this many games over a short period is grueling ... the schedule also afforded siena the softest part of its schedule to date. The average RPI of Siena's opponents prior to this run was around 155. If you leave out Kansas that bumps it to 166. The average RPI over this six game stretch was 201 and those teams are slated to finish with an average RPI of around 209. The run minus St Peters was against the bottom part of the conference. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next 10. 5 are against the top half of the conference and 5 against the bottom. 4 of the next six against the top half. The team does look a little more cohesive but I would be cautious on expectations. I hear what you are saying, and no doubt the facts don't deter from that either..............but for the many reasons we have gone over on this board to ad nauseum...........this team has a struggle with EVERY TEAM on their schedule, it doesn't matter what the rpi is of the opponent.........it shouldn't even come into consideration, but until they get back to being the consistent team they can be, that is how the schedule unfolds.............and to be somewhat fair, even though it is pointed out they have gotten through a bit of a "soft spot" in their schedule, in their first 10 MAAC games they have ONLY played 4 at home so that means down the stretch they will have 6 home games of their remaining 10.............tried & true formula, win your games at home and try to split on the road.........all of this is still in front of this team, how it ends up is yet to be determined..............
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bigsaintg
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Post by bigsaintg on Jan 24, 2017 9:49:55 GMT -5
I saw the title of the thread and was worried KK or MTS was revealing some deep dark secrets
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