hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jun 14, 2016 15:51:42 GMT -5
I hate to admit it, but lets get Iona in the equation here as it relates to our success. They've been a real power in the conference since Cluess/Grasso took over. Who was our big rival during Frans years? Niagara was okay. Who else?
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jun 14, 2016 16:54:03 GMT -5
We were the power of the MAAC during Fran's run!
As to recruiting - your kidding yourself if you think it's going swimmingly, Nico and Wright (2 studs) a bunch of Mitches kids, a slew of role guys and 12 transfers. Pretty sure JP is well aware he needs to up his game when it comes to recruiting for this next class.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jun 14, 2016 17:20:46 GMT -5
We were the power of the MAAC during Fran's run! As to recruiting - your kidding yourself if you think it's going swimmingly, Nico and Wright (2 studs) a bunch of Mitches kids, a slew of role guys and 12 transfers. Pretty sure JP is well aware he needs to up his game when it comes to recruiting for this next class. Guess you missed my point. I asked who was Frans "competition" during that era? Maybe we were the "power" because there were no other challengers? Iona, to their credit, has been a dominant program since Cluess/Grasso got to New Ro 6 years ago. |
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Post by MTS on Jun 14, 2016 17:57:23 GMT -5
I hate to admit it, but lets get Iona in the equation here as it relates to our success. They've been a real power in the conference since Cluess/Grasso took over. Who was our big rival during Frans years? Niagara was okay. Who else? Actually Niagara was darn good the year we beat Ohio State. They were easily a top 50 team in their own right. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 18:14:21 GMT -5
I hate to admit it, but lets get Iona in the equation here as it relates to our success. They've been a real power in the conference since Cluess/Grasso took over. Who was our big rival during Frans years? Niagara was okay. Who else? Actually Niagara was darn good the year we beat Ohio State. They were easily a top 50 team in their own right. Statistically speaking Niagara had one of the best MAAC teams of the last 20 years one of the years. The year that RyRo went flying out of bounds to save the ball, Niagara was 49th in RPI. It's just that Siena was 18th. With all of Monmouth's supposed historic success this year, they had an RPI of 52. So that Niagara team was ranked higher. |
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jun 14, 2016 18:40:15 GMT -5
Actually Niagara was darn good the year we beat Ohio State. They were easily a top 50 team in their own right. Statistically speaking Niagara had one of the best MAAC teams of the last 20 years one of the years. The year that RyRo went flying out of bounds to save the ball, Niagara was 49th in RPI. It's just that Siena was 18th. With all of Monmouth's supposed historic success this year, they had an RPI of 52. So that Niagara team was ranked higher. What was their RPI the other 4 years? |
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jun 14, 2016 19:45:28 GMT -5
We were the power of the MAAC during Fran's run! As to recruiting - your kidding yourself if you think it's going swimmingly, Nico and Wright (2 studs) a bunch of Mitches kids, a slew of role guys and 12 transfers. Pretty sure JP is well aware he needs to up his game when it comes to recruiting for this next class. Guess you missed my point. I asked who was Frans "competition" during that era? Maybe we were the "power" because there were no other challengers? Iona, to their credit, has been a dominant program since Cluess/Grasso got to New Ro 6 years ago. 3 consecutive trips to the NCAA with a seed as high as 9. Major wins over Vandy a 4 seed and Ohio St 8 seed. Respectable loss to Lville 1 seed. Conf tournament and reg season champs 3 consecutive years. Quality wins over schools like Vandy Ohio St Stanford Boise St & N Iowa (MVC Champs). Undefeated vs our cross town rivals. 17 / 0 at the TU. 2008-09 season finished season ranked no 2, second to Gonzaga in a national mid-major ranking. These are a few tidbits I can recall off the top of my head why Siena was a force during Fran's run. If you're implying Iona of today would have caused issues for Fran's team during that 3 year run ... I don't think so! In fact I would argue the MAAC as an entity has been on the decline, MAAC was very weak last year. |
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Post by Tony on Jun 14, 2016 20:05:20 GMT -5
Statistically speaking Niagara had one of the best MAAC teams of the last 20 years one of the years. The year that RyRo went flying out of bounds to save the ball, Niagara was 49th in RPI. It's just that Siena was 18th. With all of Monmouth's supposed historic success this year, they had an RPI of 52. So that Niagara team was ranked higher. What was their RPI the other 4 years? Not a good road to go down- MAAC overall was much stronger in the Fran years-- the 3 years we won title MAAC RPI was 15-13-17.. the last 3 years the MAAC was 20-22-16 Jimmy has some good recruits- problem is he swings and misses too often. Lets see what he does with playing time and open scholarships in hand. I expect a good year this year- maybe a very good year. I'll worry about next year ..next year until then,enjoy this upcoming year boys |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 20:08:03 GMT -5
In fact I would argue the MAAC as an entity has been on the decline, MAAC was very weak last year. You might have to log in to see this:  |
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jun 14, 2016 20:39:59 GMT -5
Guess you missed my point. I asked who was Frans "competition" during that era? Maybe we were the "power" because there were no other challengers? Iona, to their credit, has been a dominant program since Cluess/Grasso got to New Ro 6 years ago. 3 consecutive trips to the NCAA with a seed as high as 9. Major wins over Vandy a 4 seed and Ohio St 8 seed. Respectable loss to Lville 1 seed. Conf tournament and reg season champs 3 consecutive years. Quality wins over schools like Vandy Ohio St Stanford Boise St & N Iowa (MVC Champs). Undefeated vs our cross town rivals. 17 / 0 at the TU. 2008-09 season finished season ranked no 2, second to Gonzaga in a national mid-major ranking. These are a few tidbits I can recall off the top of my head why Siena was a force during Fran's run. If you're implying Iona of today would have caused issues for Fran's team during that 3 year run ... I don't think so! In fact I would argue the MAAC as an entity has been on the decline, MAAC was very weak last year. OK |
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Post by SaintsFan on Jun 15, 2016 6:03:46 GMT -5
Also Fran had a system to work with the players he had. Ronald Moore was the key to the whole thing. For any Siena fan to expect that to be the norm is unrealistic. To expect a coach to recruit players to his system is not the norm??? |
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Jun 15, 2016 8:02:39 GMT -5
Although the transferring is at an all-time and seems to be looked at by most as negative, here is an excellent example of how all parties benefit from the transfer. Especially the player who will most likely enjoy more minutes (many) playing the game he loves. How does Siena benefit from giving a scholarship to a D II player. Siena has a bench role player for two years, when we could have been developing a player to come in as a 3 or 4 this year and next year. Paige has to pick up his life and start all over. IMHO this is a failure of the staff. I know everyone wants to be PC and put a positive spin on it-but let's be real and honest. To be real and honest, yes, it didn't work out. Yes, the staff missed the mark with Jimmy. But you have to be real also. Every DI team in the country has misses when you are talking about recruiting. Staffs don't have a crystal ball. If Siena was the only school guilty of poor recruiting there wouldn't be hundreds of kids transferring each year. So are we putting a positive spin on the situation ? yes. Siena will continue the imperfect science of recruiting and we can be happy a young man continues to have a scholarship to remain in college and play ball. There's the positive spin. Also people like you get to piss and moan about Jimmy and Company. |
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Jun 15, 2016 8:11:52 GMT -5
None of those guys come without the success of their immediate predecessors - none of whom were highly touted except for Ubiles. Fran hit the jackpot with Hasbrouck, Franklin, Moore and Ubiles. Except Ubiles, anyone looking at just their interest and offers would be making the same claims of shitty recruiting. Everyone here wants to see recruits with fancy offers, and it's not realistic at this point. That's not the foundation Fran initially built the program on. And he didn't start getting those types of guys until he had built an established national mid-major power. Am I reading you and a few others correctly that 500 Fran simply got lucky and couldn't have been involved with additional good players were it not for his good fortune? Franklin didn't have any real interest? Moore didn't end up with real interest from some good programs? How did Fran get Edwin to Siena without any real foundation to recruit from? Didn't JP say he knew what it takes to win the league, was an established MAAC coach with tons of connections and that he knows the expectations at Siena are to compete for a title every year? Didn't he promise that he'd hit the ground running? I truly don't remember any mention of a 5 year plan when he was hired at the 4 year program - did I miss it? BTW, before anyone attacks, I don't think JP is doing a bad job. That being said, I am 100% confident based on Siena's history and what JP brings to the table that he should be doing a better job recruiting. If he brings in 3 of the guys being mentioned for the 2017 class he'll go a LONG way to erasing those concerns that many of us hold at this point. very fair comments. |
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Post by hockeyguy on Jun 15, 2016 8:14:46 GMT -5
Maybe I am not negative enough for some of you but consider: Kenny went 10-5 as starting PG (same record as MW last year) as a freshman with no time to prepare, including a win over IC (something MW has yet to do) in NR. Think he fit Jimmy's system? Think he will do okay next year as a jr? (one position covered for two years). How did Nico do in Jimmy's system? Think he will do okay as a jr? (two positions covered for two years). Could some combination of WB,EF and maybe Friday emerge as a serviceable front-court next year? (3 maybe 4 positions covered for two years). And that is just using players we know of so far (except Friday). Is there ONE stud to be (ala Nico) in this year's freshman class or even as a soph? Will there be one or maybe two in the next recruiting class?
I know illnesses, injuries, and to a lesser extent at Siena, grades "happen" but the team looks to be in excellent position for the coming year and potentially two years after using "Jimmy's kids", and there is a whole lot of recruiting to come between now and then. Yes, the four players that KK mentioned earlier in the post will be missed after this year, but I don't think the picture is nearly as dark as some would have it.
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Post by hockeyguy on Jun 15, 2016 8:24:13 GMT -5
Looking at recruiting a little differently than my previous post, one Kenny and one Nico caliber player per class (of course not all at the same postions)and Siena potentially owns the MAAC every year with a playing group of those eight guys.
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