hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jun 12, 2016 17:06:01 GMT -5
......ends up at Virginia Union (D-2)
Can play immediately.
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Post by Tony on Jun 12, 2016 17:17:20 GMT -5
Good for him, he will do well there- kid can play. But at 6'4" too small for PF at D1 level
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Jun 13, 2016 11:01:50 GMT -5
Good for him, he will do well there- kid can play. But at 6'4" too small for PF at D1 level Although the transferring is at an all-time and seems to be looked at by most as negative, here is an excellent example of how all parties benefit from the transfer. Especially the player who will most likely enjoy more minutes (many) playing the game he loves.
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siena70
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Post by siena70 on Jun 13, 2016 11:43:03 GMT -5
Good for him, he will do well there- kid can play. But at 6'4" too small for PF at D1 level Although the transferring is at an all-time and seems to be looked at by most as negative, here is an excellent example of how all parties benefit from the transfer. Especially the player who will most likely enjoy more minutes (many) playing the game he loves. How does Siena benefit from giving a scholarship to a D II player. Siena has a bench role player for two years, when we could have been developing a player to come in as a 3 or 4 this year and next year. Paige has to pick up his life and start all over. IMHO this is a failure of the staff. I know everyone wants to be PC and put a positive spin on it-but let's be real and honest.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jun 13, 2016 12:12:48 GMT -5
Although the transferring is at an all-time and seems to be looked at by most as negative, here is an excellent example of how all parties benefit from the transfer. Especially the player who will most likely enjoy more minutes (many) playing the game he loves. How does Siena benefit from giving a scholarship to a D II player. Siena has a bench role player for two years, when we could have been developing a player to come in as a 3 or 4 this year and next year. Paige has to pick up his life and start all over. IMHO this is a failure of the staff. I know everyone wants to be PC and put a positive spin on it-but let's be real and honest. Not every recruit works out. There's only so many minutes in a game. You guys are all so unrealistic that all 13 guys are going to not only play, but be good. All I've been hearing this year, is how we need to bring in 3 stars next year or we're screwed. Maybe Paige was developing, but we were going to recruit over him? Who says he couldn't have transferred to a D-1 school, but would rather play immediately instead of sitting out a year? We lost our 12th player to a transfer? So what? It happens all the time. You bring the best kids you can get, let them compete for minutes. The writing was on the wall for Paige at Siena. He competed, and didn't earn the amount of minutes, if any, he wanted. Now after trying at the D-1 level, maybe he figures it'll be easier to get minutes at the lower level? We have his scholarship back, and will use it to bring in another kid to compete for minutes. Hopefully it works out, and he gets into the rotation. After two years, that kid wil see the writing on the wall, and figure out his role here. He might stay, he might go. Welcome to the state of college athletics.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 12:37:24 GMT -5
Welcome to the state of college athletics. Never heard of it. Is that one of the square ones in the middle?
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glen
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Post by glen on Jun 13, 2016 14:56:09 GMT -5
Jimmy also needs players for practice...and not just walk-ons. This isn't a fantasy hoop league where coaches can build the perfect roster. Coaches are selling their programs, kids are selling themselves. Shoot too high and a coach can end up with no players coming in (or a lesser caliber due to late recruiting). Shoot too low and the players don't help. Does Jimmy take the best available even if the kid's position is full? I think it is harder to do recruiting than some imagine it is. Siena is still a demographically challenged school with reasonably high academic requirements (and relatively few fields of study) in a small-medium city in the northeast. Geographically we're competing with the Big East, ACC and A10 for the really good players. Siena also has a recruiting budget to work with. The assistants can't just jump on a plane and see Jim-bob in Kansas because a friend of a friend said he thought he was good (BCS coaches can!). Highlight videos are deceiving too. Ever notice that they never miss in those things? Every video I see the kid shoots lights out...and there are no turnovers either. Where's THAT KID when he arrives on campus :-)
Sure, the fan base, arena and facilities are nice but there is a LOT of competition for the high profile players. Coaches in the mid- low-majors make the bread and butter on getting the under the radar kids. Every now and again a Colgate lands an Adonis Foyle. If it happens, great, but that's not a realistic bar to set.
Jimmy had to grab what he could on day one and has been adjusting along the way. We are going into year 4 and he still has some balancing to do. It is to be expected.
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jun 13, 2016 16:43:14 GMT -5
The constant complaints about recruiting are getting tiresome. The fact is one of the best backcourts in the league next season was recruited by Patsos. And while he didn't recruit the entire frontcourt, he is the one that developed those players into what they are today by toughening them up. Siena is among the favorites to win it all next season and people are still complaining. Unbelievable.
If you guys want 25 year old instant stars class after class, go root for Iona. Siena is always going to mostly recruit 18 year old 4 year players that are at least decent students, and as such it'll take time to develop them. Fran McCaffrey got really lucky with one class and everyone expected that to be the new normal. Welcome to reality. If we see one star per class complemented with contributing role players, we're doing just fine.
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Post by SaintsFan on Jun 14, 2016 6:22:34 GMT -5
The constant complaints about recruiting are getting tiresome. The fact is one of the best backcourts in the league next season was recruited by Patsos. And while he didn't recruit the entire frontcourt, he is the one that developed those players into what they are today by toughening them up. Siena is among the favorites to win it all next season and people are still complaining. Unbelievable. If you guys want 25 year old instant stars class after class, go root for Iona. Siena is always going to mostly recruit 18 year old 4 year players that are at least decent students, and as such it'll take time to develop them. Fran McCaffrey got really lucky with one class and everyone expected that to be the new normal. Welcome to reality. If we see one star per class complemented with contributing role players, we're doing just fine. because Basabe, (Bryon Allen)who hadnt committed yet waiting on fran's decision, Clarence Jackson, Ryan Rossiter, OD Anosike were all scrubs. Some of you need a dose of reality as to how good fran really was. Yes these guys took a little time to develop but Fran did exactly what he shouldve... he went out and got players who could play immediately and at a pretty high level... why... because they had playing time available. He then got players with big upsides and felt he could develop. How many POY/POY candidates did Fran have? Were they all from one "lucky" class? Please
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glen
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Post by glen on Jun 14, 2016 6:33:25 GMT -5
Kudos to Fran for landing Ron/Alex/Edwin in one class. Fran scored for sure but there is an element of fortune to that. Getting all 3 in one class and having all 3 able to play MAAC-champion caliber ball day 1 was incredible. RyRo was a non-factor his frosh year but turned on the jets his soph year. Having that much talent for 4 years was key. No way we are in the running for Basabe or Allen if we didn't have that extended success. I credit Fran but again, there was some luck/good fortune too.
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jun 14, 2016 9:14:28 GMT -5
The constant complaints about recruiting are getting tiresome. The fact is one of the best backcourts in the league next season was recruited by Patsos. And while he didn't recruit the entire frontcourt, he is the one that developed those players into what they are today by toughening them up. Siena is among the favorites to win it all next season and people are still complaining. Unbelievable. If you guys want 25 year old instant stars class after class, go root for Iona. Siena is always going to mostly recruit 18 year old 4 year players that are at least decent students, and as such it'll take time to develop them. Fran McCaffrey got really lucky with one class and everyone expected that to be the new normal. Welcome to reality. If we see one star per class complemented with contributing role players, we're doing just fine. because Basabe, (Bryon Allen)who hadnt committed yet waiting on fran's decision, Clarence Jackson, Ryan Rossiter, OD Anosike were all scrubs. Some of you need a dose of reality as to how good fran really was. Yes these guys took a little time to develop but Fran did exactly what he shouldve... he went out and got players who could play immediately and at a pretty high level... why... because they had playing time available. He then got players with big upsides and felt he could develop. How many POY/POY candidates did Fran have? Were they all from one "lucky" class? Please None of those guys come without the success of their immediate predecessors - none of whom were highly touted except for Ubiles. Fran hit the jackpot with Hasbrouck, Franklin, Moore and Ubiles. Except Ubiles, anyone looking at just their interest and offers would be making the same claims of shitty recruiting. Everyone here wants to see recruits with fancy offers, and it's not realistic at this point. That's not the foundation Fran initially built the program on. And he didn't start getting those types of guys until he had built an established national mid-major power.
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Jun 14, 2016 12:15:45 GMT -5
Also Fran had a system to work with the players he had. Ronald Moore was the key to the whole thing. For any Siena fan to expect that to be the norm is unrealistic.
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Jun 14, 2016 14:34:31 GMT -5
The constant complaints about recruiting are getting tiresome. The fact is one of the best backcourts in the league next season was recruited by Patsos. And while he didn't recruit the entire frontcourt, he is the one that developed those players into what they are today by toughening them up. Siena is among the favorites to win it all next season and people are still complaining. Unbelievable. If you guys want 25 year old instant stars class after class, go root for Iona. Siena is always going to mostly recruit 18 year old 4 year players that are at least decent students, and as such it'll take time to develop them. Fran McCaffrey got really lucky with one class and everyone expected that to be the new normal. Welcome to reality. If we see one star per class complemented with contributing role players, we're doing just fine. because Basabe, (Bryon Allen)who hadnt committed yet waiting on fran's decision, Clarence Jackson, Ryan Rossiter, OD Anosike were all scrubs. Some of you need a dose of reality as to how good fran really was. Yes these guys took a little time to develop but Fran did exactly what he shouldve... he went out and got players who could play immediately and at a pretty high level... why... because they had playing time available. He then got players with big upsides and felt he could develop. How many POY/POY candidates did Fran have? Were they all from one "lucky" class? Please +++
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Jun 14, 2016 14:48:12 GMT -5
because Basabe, (Bryon Allen)who hadnt committed yet waiting on fran's decision, Clarence Jackson, Ryan Rossiter, OD Anosike were all scrubs. Some of you need a dose of reality as to how good fran really was. Yes these guys took a little time to develop but Fran did exactly what he shouldve... he went out and got players who could play immediately and at a pretty high level... why... because they had playing time available. He then got players with big upsides and felt he could develop. How many POY/POY candidates did Fran have? Were they all from one "lucky" class? Please None of those guys come without the success of their immediate predecessors - none of whom were highly touted except for Ubiles. Fran hit the jackpot with Hasbrouck, Franklin, Moore and Ubiles. Except Ubiles, anyone looking at just their interest and offers would be making the same claims of shitty recruiting. Everyone here wants to see recruits with fancy offers, and it's not realistic at this point. That's not the foundation Fran initially built the program on. And he didn't start getting those types of guys until he had built an established national mid-major power. Am I reading you and a few others correctly that 500 Fran simply got lucky and couldn't have been involved with additional good players were it not for his good fortune? Franklin didn't have any real interest? Moore didn't end up with real interest from some good programs? How did Fran get Edwin to Siena without any real foundation to recruit from? Didn't JP say he knew what it takes to win the league, was an established MAAC coach with tons of connections and that he knows the expectations at Siena are to compete for a title every year? Didn't he promise that he'd hit the ground running? I truly don't remember any mention of a 5 year plan when he was hired at the 4 year program - did I miss it? BTW, before anyone attacks, I don't think JP is doing a bad job. That being said, I am 100% confident based on Siena's history and what JP brings to the table that he should be doing a better job recruiting. If he brings in 3 of the guys being mentioned for the 2017 class he'll go a LONG way to erasing those concerns that many of us hold at this point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 15:27:24 GMT -5
I like JP overall but anyone who says the recruiting hasn't been an issue so far is kidding themselves.
We're 1 season away from losing Wright, Bisping, JO, and Long and we really have no idea who is going to step in. All that without having even placed in top 2 MAAC teams yet in 3 years.
If there was a 5 year plan, it should be involve how to replace these guys. As of right now, there is no plan that is official.
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