saints22
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Post by saints22 on Feb 15, 2016 15:19:33 GMT -5
Siena had 6 more foul shots. I didn't have the best seat in the place for this game (tucked over in a corner section well behind the basket, about 12-14 rows up), but with Iona players grabbing and slapping at the ball in double-team, trap and other pressure situations, looked to me like there could have been a bunch more fouls called, with the Saints shooting many more free-throws. I thought that several "turnovers" were actually the result of fouls that weren't called. Eventually, Jimmy got fed up with the officials, had his say, got his T, and the rest we know.
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Post by psycholojets on Feb 15, 2016 16:04:41 GMT -5
I actually thought that they trapped well and capitalized on weak passes and sloppy ball handling. They got many tipped passes and then grabbed the loose balls. Some fouls were not called but there were many good steals in there as well.
That said it was good to see the guys keep their composure and pull out a solid road win.
Sent from my SM-G900P using proboards
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Feb 15, 2016 16:17:10 GMT -5
Wow, though, that is a stat. Iona had a whopping 71 shots to Siena's 48... That's 23 MORE shots than us...and we still won. That's amazing considering we also outrebounded them by 14. That's why I don't like the matchup vs Iona. Margin for victory is too small. If Siena can limit turnovers maybe the shot difference wont be so high, Iona will still put up alot of shots. You have to shoot a a high percentage and hope they are below average. Exactly! It's all about our turnovers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2016 16:21:08 GMT -5
That's why I don't like the matchup vs Iona. Margin for victory is too small. If Siena can limit turnovers maybe the shot difference wont be so high, Iona will still put up alot of shots. You have to shoot a a high percentage and hope they are below average. Exactly! It's all about our turnovers. Also, you guys know that we've given up 50 pts off turnovers in our 2 games vs. Monmouth too....? I think it was 24 in one game and 26 in the other. Iona got 25 pts off turnovers on Saturday. We shot 54% and only got 8 pts off of their 9 turnovers.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 15, 2016 17:06:10 GMT -5
Siena had 6 more foul shots. I didn't have the best seat in the place for this game (tucked over in a corner section well behind the basket, about 12-14 rows up), but with Iona players grabbing and slapping at the ball in double-team, trap and other pressure situations, looked to me like there could have been a bunch more fouls called, with the Saints shooting many more free-throws. I thought that several "turnovers" were actually the result of fouls that weren't called. Eventually, Jimmy got fed up with the officials, had his say, got his T, and the rest we know. I know it's supposed to be cool to embrace the technicals, but after the t Iona went on a 12-3 run and Siena was called for 9 fouls compared to 5 fouls for Iona before garbage time at the :22 mark. I don't buy it, at best the t had no impact and it was the huddle patsos was talking about that provided the catalyst.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2016 18:34:50 GMT -5
Spinning the T is aka kissing the head coach's ass! If the only way you think you can get your players to play is to give up points and the ball something is wrong somewhere. Our kids won the game IN SPITE OF the T. Had we lost by a point or two the spin would have been counterclockwise from a different source.
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skipc
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Post by skipc on Feb 15, 2016 19:16:57 GMT -5
Spinning the T is aka kissing the head coach's ass! If the only way you think you can get your players to play is to give up points and the ball something is wrong somewhere. Our kids won the game IN SPITE OF the T. Had we lost by a point or two the spin would have been counterclockwise from a different source. I don't know if you were at the game or even watched it but IMO Jimmy didn't get the T to get his players to play. He got the T trying to PROTECT one of his players who had gotten mugged with no whistle. I agree with Gorvy that the T, in hindsight, had no impact but I'm sure that every one of our guy's were glad to know their coach had their back! Most successful D1 coaches don't get T's to motivate their players, they get them to support their players.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2016 19:39:03 GMT -5
I was not at the game but did watch the entire game on the 3. Motivational or protection is the same protect the coach spin. Good when a team wins but oh so bad when a loss ensues. If the team doesn't know, especially this many games into the season, that their head coach always has their back then I add that to the "something is wrong" pile. It was painfully obvious that the T had zero impact other than to dig the hole the team had to fight their way out of a little deeper.
I recall Fran getting crucified for every T he ever earned.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Feb 15, 2016 20:35:00 GMT -5
I was not at the game but did watch the entire game on the 3. Motivational or protection is the same protect the coach spin. Good when a team wins but oh so bad when a loss ensues. If the team doesn't know, especially this many games into the season, that their head coach always has their back then I add that to the "something is wrong" pile. It was painfully obvious that the T had zero impact other than to dig the hole the team had to fight their way out of a little deeper. I recall Fran getting crucified for every T he ever earned. Not sure of your point. Did you disagree with every one of Fran's T's? and what is 'having their backs' if not defending them vs a ref when he feels their safety is at risk?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 5:30:59 GMT -5
Yes, I disagreed with every one of Fran's T's! Most T's result from a coach's loss of personal control, IMO. Safety of his/her players may be a player at times but in the vast majority of cases they result from what may or not be perceived as an imbalance in both the number of calls and/or on the basis of calls made. As was pointed out on the ESPN3 broadcast, once Jimmy got the T he was then relegated to the role of church mouse else risk getting tossed - not exactly an outcome that would protect his team or help get a W. My original intent when entering this discussion got triggered when one poster praised Jimmy for the T and connected the W to it rather than to what really happened - OBTW, the kids won the game themselves in spite of a poorly timed and totally ineffective T. Do you ever see a coach praising a player for trying to do too much resulting in a bad forced shot, a turnover or a dumb foul? NO - usually the outcome is the exact opposite! Yet some praise a HC for similar behavior.
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Post by Tony on Feb 16, 2016 5:48:31 GMT -5
After the "T" Siena definitely got a better whistle...on play Jimmy got T -Brent was mugged and no call, Williams was fouling Brent almost every time he had ball( Williams too small to guard Brent straight up) in addition Iona had their hands all over Siena offensive players and gals were not getting called-- after T started getting that call --
Not big on T's but sometimes they do work- Get team or zebra;s attention- sometimes both.
and for the record-- I almost always was fine with Fran's t's-- as he almost always won-- I did disagree with every single T the PW got since he almost always lost-- moral of story here..win and T's not a big deal ( especially if you don't get them that often) Lose and you will get crucified
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 16, 2016 6:27:26 GMT -5
I agree the t is not a big deal when you win and huge if you lose, but I've been rolling my eyes so hard they at are falling out of my head at anyone suggesting it was why siena won the game. Jimmy totally out coached Tim in this one but the t had absolutely nothing to do with it.
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skipc
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Post by skipc on Feb 16, 2016 7:48:04 GMT -5
Yes, I disagreed with every one of Fran's T's! Most T's result from a coach's loss of personal control, IMO. Safety of his/her players may be a player at times but in the vast majority of cases they result from what may or not be perceived as an imbalance in both the number of calls and/or on the basis of calls made. As was pointed out on the ESPN3 broadcast, once Jimmy got the T he was then relegated to the role of church mouse else risk getting tossed - not exactly an outcome that would protect his team or help get a W. My original intent when entering this discussion got triggered when one poster praised Jimmy for the T and connected the W to it rather than to what really happened - OBTW, the kids won the game themselves in spite of a poorly timed and totally ineffective T. Do you ever see a coach praising a player for trying to do too much resulting in a bad forced shot, a turnover or a dumb foul? NO - usually the outcome is the exact opposite! Yet some praise a HC for similar behavior. So I guess what your saying his you disagree with any T that any coach has ever gotten? Including Mitch?
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saints22
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Post by saints22 on Feb 16, 2016 11:09:31 GMT -5
I agree the t is not a big deal when you win and huge if you lose, but I've been rolling my eyes so hard they at are falling out of my head at anyone suggesting it was why siena won the game. Jimmy totally out coached Tim in this one but the t had absolutely nothing to do with it. To clarify, when I posted that "Jimmy got fed up with the officials, had his say, got a T, and the rest we know", I was not attributing the win to the T. I was just stating a fact that, after the T (and as Tony says above), the calls started going Siena's way more than they had up to that point, which was an important factor in the outcome. I don't like coaches (or players) getting Ts, for the reasons that MP expresses.
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hankla
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Post by hankla on Feb 16, 2016 13:25:00 GMT -5
My only wish is that the Saints at home get the same type of treatment that their opponents get at their homes. With the amount of booing refs get at TUC especially after video replays my wish is not being fulfilled.
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