indian82
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Post by indian82 on Feb 20, 2016 11:35:33 GMT -5
And I am disappointed, shocked and surprised that, by default, I am in the box to which you feel you cannot carry on a fruitful discussion.
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Post by SaintsFan on Feb 20, 2016 11:36:54 GMT -5
I try not to but when a significant portion of someone's core values are derived from something I believe to be imaginary, not based on reality...it is extremely hard to take them completely seriously. Not to mention the BILLIONS of lives that have been lost inn the name of these religions I respectfully, but vehemently, disagree if you choose to disregard/belittle the opinions of many (majority) of good, rational people. I am amazed that you would attribute wars and killings 'in the name of religion' to anybody living in the US today, certainly any member of this board. Anymore than I would not listen to your or Bernie Sander's views because I associate his views as originating in the mind of Karl Marx, I respectfully ask you to rethink that position. If you don't think some Christians in this country and money from Catholic churches(along with other Christian money) have had nothing to do with killings throughout the world...That is a very naive belief and understanding of our world today
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Feb 20, 2016 11:57:53 GMT -5
I respectfully, but vehemently, disagree if you choose to disregard/belittle the opinions of many (majority) of good, rational people. I am amazed that you would attribute wars and killings 'in the name of religion' to anybody living in the US today, certainly any member of this board. Anymore than I would not listen to your or Bernie Sander's views because I associate his views as originating in the mind of Karl Marx, I respectfully ask you to rethink that position. If you don't think some Christians in this country and money from Catholic churches(along with other Christian money) have had nothing to do with killings throughout the world...That is a very naive belief and understanding of our world today Probably a little strong for me to say 'nobody' because there's always some. But I would say that is an extremely rare occurrence. If you think that's naive, then so be it. I believe your opinion of not being able to discuss matters of importance with people of faith is naive, and even ignorant, prejudiced and biased . So, I stand corrected, but also believe you are making a pretty strong, generic statement without backing it up with one example that could be debated. I know you can find an example of a Christian wanting to go to war against ISIS or Iraq, Iran, etc, or to protect Syrian or Kurdish Christians but don't know how you can make the stretch that it is because of their Christian faith.
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Post by SaintsFan on Feb 20, 2016 12:05:03 GMT -5
Our government, often times lead by self proclaimed Christians use the cia, fbi, special forces to eliminate opposition throughout the world. Those are just some examples that go on on a day to day basis.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Feb 20, 2016 12:15:04 GMT -5
Our government, often times lead by self proclaimed Christians use the cia, fbi, special forces to eliminate opposition throughout the world. Those are just some examples that go on on a day to day basis. That's kind of the response I was expecting. But really not sure where you are heading with that. I already knew many people in those types of positions are Christian, and a smaller percentage are Jewish, Muslim and probably other Eastern religions, including Buddhist. So only a true atheist can/should work in any of those positions effectively. Guess what that makes me think of? Even though, atheism is kind of a 'religion' itself.
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Post by SaintsFan on Feb 20, 2016 12:16:22 GMT -5
Often times these are done not only to advance democracy but to advance religious agendas as well.
Really REALLY naive
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Feb 20, 2016 12:27:30 GMT -5
Often times these are done not only to advance democracy but to advance religious agendas as well. Really REALLY naive Again very generic. No examples other than, "Yeah, there's Christians in the govt, CIA, FBI, etc. " I already knew that part. Also, reminds me of how people used to think the Pope was going to call the shots when Kennedy was elected. And I'm sure you could go the abortion route and say people in positions of power opposed are only blindly following the tenets of their religion. But laws against murder are not? Seems like that one's been on the 'religious' books for a long time. Somebody called it a commandment a long time ago. My point is, it's hard to separate plain old morals necessary to keep society civil from religious tenets.
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Post by SaintsFan on Feb 20, 2016 12:28:47 GMT -5
Often times these are done not only to advance democracy but to advance religious agendas as well. Really REALLY naive Again very generic. No examples other than, "Yeah, there's Christians in the govt, CIA, FBI, etc. " I already knew that part. Also, reminds me of how people used to think the Pope was going to call the shots when Kennedy was elected. And I'm sure you could go the abortion route and say people in positions of power opposed are only blindly following the tenets of their religion. But laws against murder are not? Seems like that one's been on the 'religious' books for a long time. Somebody called it a commandment a long time ago. My point is, it's hard to separate plain old morals necessary to keep society civil from religious tenets. It's quite easy however to be hypocrites...As evidenced each and every day.
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th24
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Post by th24 on Feb 20, 2016 12:39:04 GMT -5
Again - if the US has a high tax rate for people, small businesses and cooperations .... they are going to leave! Nobody in their right mind is going to pay the tax rate Burnie wants! Are you 12? You obviously are detached from reality or simply ignorant of the fact that corporations complain about a tax rate that they simply DON'T PAY.They want you to BELIEVE they pay it Please take a moment and go read the definition of EFFECTIVE TAX RATE. While you're at it also look up PILOT and other forms of corporate welfare and its extremely negative impact on our communities Communities around NYS/Northeast are suffering because of lack of lack of population growth,job growth and development! Because people are sick of paying high taxes! And mark my words...if the government has BURNIE taxes ..more jobs will be lost to other countries like Ireland!
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Feb 20, 2016 12:42:16 GMT -5
It comes down to whether you believe the power should be concentrated in the individual or in the government. I believe my faith and belief in a free society with free enterprise-capitalism is very consistent.
SF, the non believer, is consistent with giving power to the government to solve all social problems, by eliminating or reducing individuals to be servants to their government.
I'd prefer to be free and serve the God I choose.
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Feb 20, 2016 12:45:11 GMT -5
Again very generic. No examples other than, "Yeah, there's Christians in the govt, CIA, FBI, etc. " I already knew that part. Also, reminds me of how people used to think the Pope was going to call the shots when Kennedy was elected. And I'm sure you could go the abortion route and say people in positions of power opposed are only blindly following the tenets of their religion. But laws against murder are not? Seems like that one's been on the 'religious' books for a long time. Somebody called it a commandment a long time ago. My point is, it's hard to separate plain old morals necessary to keep society civil from religious tenets. It's quite easy however to be hypocrites...As evidenced each and every day. It's easy to be a lot of things and we are all imperfect people. But you're still not providing any solid examples. Its evident that you are painting all people of faith with a prejudiced, broad brush. It's also evident that there is a vast chasm between us that it does not look like we can bridge here, esp when you segued this whole debate that you can't (or refuse to try) to have a meaningful discussion with somebody who professes a faith in God.
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Post by SaintsFan on Feb 20, 2016 13:30:09 GMT -5
Yes I agree
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