hoopjunkie
Associate Head Coach
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jul 4, 2015 12:52:32 GMT -5
The bottom line is this: EVERY coach that comes is here, is looking to move up. Period. We don't pay enough to keep a really good coach here. We don't have a fanbase that is willing to put up with either: a)losing coach, or b) a guy that hovers around .500.
The successful coaches here can't wait to put us in the rearview mirror for the millions. THIS is our reality. IF we gave Fran an $800/yr deal, maybe he stays, who knows? That was, and never will, happen. Get used to hoping we bring in a good guy EVERYTIME. We tried to keep a guy that we KNEW would stay here til he retired (still think it's the reason he got the job), and it backfired in our face and set this program back 4-5 years.
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Post by MTS on Jul 4, 2015 12:59:16 GMT -5
The bottom line is this: EVERY coach that comes is here, is looking to move up. Period. We don't pay enough to keep a really good coach here. We don't have a fanbase that is willing to put up with either: a)losing coach, or b) a guy that hovers around .500. The successful coaches here can't wait to put us in the rearview mirror for the millions. THIS is our reality. IF we gave Fran an $800/yr deal, maybe he stays, who knows? That was, and never will, happen. Get used to hoping we bring in a good guy EVERYTIME. We tried to keep a guy that we KNEW would stay here til he retired (still think it's the reason he got the job), and it backfired in our face and set this program back 4-5 years. I really think Siena did EVERYTHING in their power to keep Fran. He signed (before his last season) an 8 year deal worth about $500K a year - all of it guaranteed - $4M total. I don't think $800K a year would have done it when Iowa started him off with what about a $1.2M a year for six years? Fran wanted to coach at the highest level too and had midwest roots. Hiring Mitch was a bad decision but the really bad decision was giving him a four year guaranteed contract. Nobody can spin that one. He should have been fired after his first year. I'm hoping Jimmy is going to get this thing going in the right direction. If he struggles I'm not sure he'll go down in flames. I could easily see him resigning before getting fired. Hopefully it doesn't come to that though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 13:02:14 GMT -5
I think Siena really did EVERYONE in their power to keep Fran. Losing must be a sexually transmitted disease then.
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hankla
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Post by hankla on Jul 4, 2015 13:09:06 GMT -5
As I mentioned previously in the words of Spiro Agnew (?) A bunch of nattering nabobs of negativity. I think this is the first time I repeated any of my previous statements on this board. I guess this is why I've taken so long to rise from ball boy to Sophomore while repetitious folk have risen to much higher ranks. Everybody have a fifth on the Fourth and enjoy life in the great Northeast(65 degrees on July 4)..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 13:51:27 GMT -5
As I mentioned previously in the words of Spiro Agnew (?) A bunch of nattering nabobs of negativity. I think this is the first time I repeated any of my previous statements on this board. I guess this is why I've taken so long to rise from ball boy to Sophomore while repetitious folk have risen to much higher ranks. Everybody have a fifth on the Fourth and enjoy life in the great Northeast(65 degrees on July 4).. Nice weather recap but you forgot the "all wet" part!!!!!!!!!!!!! We should all be as positive as you are hank.
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Post by sienahusker on Jul 4, 2015 14:55:23 GMT -5
As I mentioned previously in the words of Spiro Agnew (?) A bunch of nattering nabobs of negativity. I think this is the first time I repeated any of my previous statements on this board. I guess this is why I've taken so long to rise from ball boy to Sophomore while repetitious folk have risen to much higher ranks. Everybody have a fifth on the Fourth and enjoy life in the great Northeast(65 degrees on July 4).. Nice weather recap but you forgot the "all wet" part!!!!!!!!!!!!! We should all be as positive as you are hank. If we all have that fifth we'll forget we're "all wet".
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Jul 4, 2015 14:57:02 GMT -5
I just renewed my tickets. I understand everyone's frustrations, we all have them. But we are all uniquely different so of course we're not going to react the same. I do know that every person on here today really cares. Let's all pray that the "new" and more controlled Jimmy that we saw near the end of the season is the JP of 2015-16.
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IndianSaint
Associate Head Coach
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Post by IndianSaint on Jul 4, 2015 18:36:08 GMT -5
As for fans coming back- I’m sure Siena is counting on that and you could be right, but the longer the bad or mediocre years last the less likely it is to happen. Siena has never been bad or mediocre this long since returning to D1- so this is really uncharted waters. Add to that fact Siena is charging 2 or 3 times what other MAAC programs charge. Everyone has their breaking point- let’s hope Siena/ Jimmy has a good year this year – and Jimmy can land some of his priority recruits, Because if not the chorus to ditch so-so jimmy will grow this year, since the late 70’s no coach has ever survived after posting two straight losing seasons And now they have a far less expensive option in Albany who is outperforming Siena. Should Albany change conference in basketball... And again junkie alumnus are going to look for any reason to hang on. Non alumnus are going to reach the breaking point sooner. As Tony pointed out...Patsos saying Siena is no different than AE, MAAC schools who are charging a fraction. With the decisions of late (last 5 years) Siena should look at upgrading the ARC and move back. The ticket prices vs product makes zero sense I don't see how UA is out performing Siena. Sure they're beating AE teams & winning their tournament but that's it. No better than Iona. So what. If UA or Iona started winning NCAA Tourney gMes on s regular basis, then and only then would I agree. Until then they're no better than an Iona who can only beat up on their conference but fail to win the big games. Siena has already won more NCAA tourney games than Iona & UA combined.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Jul 4, 2015 18:41:05 GMT -5
This is actually an issue many organizations go through when they attempt to grow. The people who got them to this level often do not have the skills to take them to the next level. Siena suffers from this big time. They have very nice people working there but who has on their resume "been there done that" for being prt of taking an organization to the next level. To Alabnys credit they go out and get ADs from higher level schools who have been part of larger organizations and know what to do. We hire ex- Siena athletes or people who will work cheap. If we want to grow part of the investment has to be investing in some better Admin talent with the right experience. Do this correctly and we will get better and athletic revenue will increase as well. The current AD has done a pretty good job. Not only has he had success with men's basketball but also lacrosse, soccer, women's golf, volleyball, baseball, etc.. Sure maybe he could have done better but he's done pretty good so far. I'm hoping he & Jimmy/Ali get the Basketball teams back to greatness in the near future.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Jul 4, 2015 18:47:34 GMT -5
I'm not at all in favor of this "all or nothing" support theme that seems to be taken up by posters on this board. It may be overly simplistic but to me anyway, there are three elements of the Men's Basketball Program - 1) the team/players, 2) the staff, and 3) the administration. I don't believe any of us are in favor of or actually looking to not support the team PERIOD. The staff is a pyramid with Jimmy at the top and my beef with him is related totally to his coaching style and its, IMO, ineffectiveness in consistently showing improvement and utilization of each player's skill sets - and they are different. I personally believe John has done a great job overall for the TOTAL Siena Athletic Department, BUT, the last five years indicates to me an unwillingness or inability to affect some change in how our head coaches do their jobs. HJ and others are correct - when Jimmy wins, the gain is turned down on the sideline antics, etc. When Jimmy loses the gain is turned way up regarding his style, communications and his assessment regarding what isn't working AND WHETHER IT WILL BE WORKED ON (not seeing much of that). Staff criticisms may be warranted re recruiting, etc. and we have seen one change that may help in the future but I'm not sold on the belief that it was all due to one assistant - we can differ on that. The only way that meaningful "messages" can be sent are those that impact the revenue stream. I have held off on my season ticket renewal solely to send what may be a rather weak message - I won't give up my seats and I will continue to "see" as many games as possible. I will drop my Saints Alive membership for the year. Bottom line however, I will be rooting for the kids and will continue to do so regardless of record - no matter what many think, those kids give the best they can at each game and they do try and make each freethrow! They deserve the best coaching available - they already have the best fan base in the MAAC. I can only do all or nothing. I don't see how it's possible for me to root for my team without also rooting for the coach/admin/etc. They're all part of the team in my view. Would I like the coach or AD to do things differently, sure I would; but I still have to pull for them while they're on my favorite team. When they leave or get fired/replaced them I'll citize them but until then they have my support. Hard for me to root against portions of my team without actually rooting against my team. It's counter-productive for me to do so. But that's just me. I understand others have differing views, that's ok too.
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bigsaintg
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Post by bigsaintg on Jul 4, 2015 19:47:48 GMT -5
This is actually an issue many organizations go through when they attempt to grow. The people who got them to this level often do not have the skills to take them to the next level. Siena suffers from this big time. They have very nice people working there but who has on their resume "been there done that" for being prt of taking an organization to the next level. To Alabnys credit they go out and get ADs from higher level schools who have been part of larger organizations and know what to do. We hire ex- Siena athletes or people who will work cheap. If we want to grow part of the investment has to be investing in some better Admin talent with the right experience. Do this correctly and we will get better and athletic revenue will increase as well. The current AD has done a pretty good job. Not only has he had success with men's basketball but also lacrosse, soccer, women's golf, volleyball, baseball, etc.. Sure maybe he could have done better but he's done pretty good so far. I'm hoping he & Jimmy/Ali get the Basketball teams back to greatness in the near future. My point was lost on you. He is fine for.a decent MAAC program but will never get us to rhe next level which at one point we were hoping for
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Jul 4, 2015 20:03:28 GMT -5
The current AD has done a pretty good job. Not only has he had success with men's basketball but also lacrosse, soccer, women's golf, volleyball, baseball, etc.. Sure maybe he could have done better but he's done pretty good so far. I'm hoping he & Jimmy/Ali get the Basketball teams back to greatness in the near future. My point was lost on you. He is fine for.a decent MAAC program but will never get us to rhe next level which at one point we were hoping for No, it wasn't lost on me. I understood. I'm just saying that I think he's done a good job considering. Of course maybe we could have done better than hiring from within, but considering where we've come sine he took over (as an overall program -all sports) I'd say we've done pretty good. Could we have done better, maybe. But, I'm satisfied with it so far. We could have potentially done worse, we'll never know. At least we're no St. Peter's, Rider, Niagara, Canisius, Marist, Fairfield, etc.. Even the Iona's who win the MAAC cup & basketball tourneys, still don't do anything outside the conference. At least Siena wins outside the MAAC tourney (of course Marist women do, but not lately). I haven't counted him out of getting us to the next level yet. There's still time. That's even assuming the school wants to go to the next level. Maybe they don't. Does that mean some current fans will stop being fans if the school decides to never move up? I sure won't. Siena's stuck with me as a fan whether they like it or not.
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Post by SaintsFan on Jul 5, 2015 7:26:35 GMT -5
My point was lost on you. He is fine for.a decent MAAC program but will never get us to rhe next level which at one point we were hoping for No, it wasn't lost on me. I understood. I'm just saying that I think he's done a good job considering. Of course maybe we could have done better than hiring from within, but considering where we've come sine he took over (as an overall program -all sports) I'd say we've done pretty good. Could we have done better, maybe. But, I'm satisfied with it so far. We could have potentially done worse, we'll never know. At least we're no St. Peter's, Rider, Niagara, Canisius, Marist, Fairfield, etc.. Even the Iona's who win the MAAC cup & basketball tourneys, still don't do anything outside the conference. At least Siena wins outside the MAAC tourney (of course Marist women do, but not lately). I haven't counted him out of getting us to the next level yet. There's still time. That's even assuming the school wants to go to the next level. Maybe they don't. Does that mean some current fans will stop being fans if the school decides to never move up? I sure won't. Siena's stuck with me as a fan whether they like it or not. IndianSaint... I don't want to continue the negativity but I will also not be accused of "abandoning the program" or that I'm just leaving because "they won't move up". I simply believe the program has been and continues to be mismanaged
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gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Jul 5, 2015 8:02:23 GMT -5
The program has abandoned me. The prices are outrageous for the product on the floor. If they move back to the arc it will be a little more palatable. or if they start winning like a mid major. Otherwise, this is it at $300 for me.
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Post by NotRonaldMoore on Jul 5, 2015 8:09:07 GMT -5
Reading through this board makes me think that I'm currently attending Kentucky.
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