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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 10:06:09 GMT -5
I'm not at all in favor of this "all or nothing" support theme that seems to be taken up by posters on this board. It may be overly simplistic but to me anyway, there are three elements of the Men's Basketball Program - 1) the team/players, 2) the staff, and 3) the administration. I don't believe any of us are in favor of or actually looking to not support the team PERIOD. The staff is a pyramid with Jimmy at the top and my beef with him is related totally to his coaching style and its, IMO, ineffectiveness in consistently showing improvement and utilization of each player's skill sets - and they are different. I personally believe John has done a great job overall for the TOTAL Siena Athletic Department, BUT, the last five years indicates to me an unwillingness or inability to affect some change in how our head coaches do their jobs. HJ and others are correct - when Jimmy wins, the gain is turned down on the sideline antics, etc. When Jimmy loses the gain is turned way up regarding his style, communications and his assessment regarding what isn't working AND WHETHER IT WILL BE WORKED ON (not seeing much of that). Staff criticisms may be warranted re recruiting, etc. and we have seen one change that may help in the future but I'm not sold on the belief that it was all due to one assistant - we can differ on that. The only way that meaningful "messages" can be sent are those that impact the revenue stream. I have held off on my season ticket renewal solely to send what may be a rather weak message - I won't give up my seats and I will continue to "see" as many games as possible. I will drop my Saints Alive membership for the year. Bottom line however, I will be rooting for the kids and will continue to do so regardless of record - no matter what many think, those kids give the best they can at each game and they do try and make each freethrow! They deserve the best coaching available - they already have the best fan base in the MAAC.
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Post by Tony on Jul 4, 2015 10:50:34 GMT -5
I should have some fun with this and pin a thread of Jimmy's finest quotes
"team and program is right on target" a few days after Siena wraps up 20 loss season under Jimmy
"See I have a 5 year plan" that he has yet to share with anyone
"Oh we cant recruit against them" anytime a potential recruit mentions a A10 or CAA team recruiting them
"Its all about the MAAC" "Siena is same as Albany or Vermont"
"the MAAC is the little engine that could"
if anyone can think or more post them in this thread I'll combine and pin it -- and feel free to use Jimmy quotes or Darg quotes
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Post by Tony on Jul 4, 2015 10:57:16 GMT -5
I'm not at all in favor of this "all or nothing" support theme that seems to be taken up by posters on this board. It may be overly simplistic but to me anyway, there are three elements of the Men's Basketball Program - 1) the team/players, 2) the staff, and 3) the administration. I don't believe any of us are in favor of or actually looking to not support the team PERIOD. The staff is a pyramid with Jimmy at the top and my beef with him is related totally to his coaching style and its, IMO, ineffectiveness in consistently showing improvement and utilization of each player's skill sets - and they are different. I personally believe John has done a great job overall for the TOTAL Siena Athletic Department, BUT, the last five years indicates to me an unwillingness or inability to affect some change in how our head coaches do their jobs. HJ and others are correct - when Jimmy wins, the gain is turned down on the sideline antics, etc. When Jimmy loses the gain is turned way up regarding his style, communications and his assessment regarding what isn't working AND WHETHER IT WILL BE WORKED ON (not seeing much of that). Staff criticisms may be warranted re recruiting, etc. and we have seen one change that may help in the future but I'm not sold on the belief that it was all due to one assistant - we can differ on that. The only way that meaningful "messages" can be sent are those that impact the revenue stream. I have held off on my season ticket renewal solely to send what may be a rather weak message - I won't give up my seats and I will continue to "see" as many games as possible. I will drop my Saints Alive membership for the year. Bottom line however, I will be rooting for the kids and will continue to do so regardless of record - no matter what many think, those kids give the best they can at each game and they do try and make each freethrow! They deserve the best coaching available - they already have the best fan base in the MAAC. I will say I'm not buying the blame the 2nd assistant coach for recruiting line either ..Jimmy has never been a good recruiter. He is basically a lazy recruiter- taking most of April and May off each year - and even that is OK if you have strong assistants.
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Post by SaintsFan on Jul 4, 2015 11:17:05 GMT -5
I'm not at all in favor of this "all or nothing" support theme that seems to be taken up by posters on this board. It may be overly simplistic but to me anyway, there are three elements of the Men's Basketball Program - 1) the team/players, 2) the staff, and 3) the administration. I don't believe any of us are in favor of or actually looking to not support the team PERIOD. The staff is a pyramid with Jimmy at the top and my beef with him is related totally to his coaching style and its, IMO, ineffectiveness in consistently showing improvement and utilization of each player's skill sets - and they are different. I personally believe John has done a great job overall for the TOTAL Siena Athletic Department, BUT, the last five years indicates to me an unwillingness or inability to affect some change in how our head coaches do their jobs. HJ and others are correct - when Jimmy wins, the gain is turned down on the sideline antics, etc. When Jimmy loses the gain is turned way up regarding his style, communications and his assessment regarding what isn't working AND WHETHER IT WILL BE WORKED ON (not seeing much of that). Staff criticisms may be warranted re recruiting, etc. and we have seen one change that may help in the future but I'm not sold on the belief that it was all due to one assistant - we can differ on that. The only way that meaningful "messages" can be sent are those that impact the revenue stream. I have held off on my season ticket renewal solely to send what may be a rather weak message - I won't give up my seats and I will continue to "see" as many games as possible. I will drop my Saints Alive membership for the year. Bottom line however, I will be rooting for the kids and will continue to do so regardless of record - no matter what many think, those kids give the best they can at each game and they do try and make each freethrow! They deserve the best coaching available - they already have the best fan base in the MAAC. I will have to disagree or at least come at it from a different angle regarding D'Argenio... He has been competent enough for a small upstate NY private college with a few thousand students. BUT he has not been competent when it comes to: Having a high profile mid major program with aspirations of being one of the best mid-majors in the region, if not the country. The coaching selections have been so hit or miss that someone throwing darts could probably have similar success. If managing a high profile program so haphazardly isnt his fault then the responsibility falls somewhere... perhaps with the puppet masters who consider themselves closet GMs. They are as much at fault as D'Argenio if not more so for not putting someone in place who is capable of managing the type of program Siena seems to have wanted. Ive ALWAYS believed that the group of people pulling the strings behind the scenes are more concerned about maintaining their own control of the program and are unwilling to put someone in place who is a capable leader but may actually have different opinion/approach than themselves. So... its D'Args fault or its the puppets masters and D'Args fault. and regarding the all or nothing approach... we have supported the program through a LOT of shit years... so no... it hasnt been all or nothing.. but it is rapidly closing in on that for MANY people.. primarily no alumnus. When the local support erodes for the program... you might as well move back to the ARC and adjust your ticket prices.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 11:21:20 GMT -5
I should have some fun with this and pin a thread of Jimmy's finest quotes "team and program is right on target" a few days after Siena wraps up 20 loss season under Jimmy "See I have a 5 year plan" that he has yet to share with anyone "Oh we cant recruit against them" anytime a potential recruit mentions a A10 or CAA team recruiting them "Its all about the MAAC" "Siena is same as Albany or Vermont" "the MAAC is the little engine that could" if anyone can think or more post them in this thread I'll combine and pin it -- and feel free to use Jimmy quotes or Darg quotes How about we make a list of Tony's quotes: "Siena will be playing back on campus within 10 years" Many true fans on this board.....
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Post by SaintsFan on Jul 4, 2015 11:30:59 GMT -5
I should have some fun with this and pin a thread of Jimmy's finest quotes "team and program is right on target" a few days after Siena wraps up 20 loss season under Jimmy "See I have a 5 year plan" that he has yet to share with anyone "Oh we cant recruit against them" anytime a potential recruit mentions a A10 or CAA team recruiting them "Its all about the MAAC" "Siena is same as Albany or Vermont" "the MAAC is the little engine that could" if anyone can think or more post them in this thread I'll combine and pin it -- and feel free to use Jimmy quotes or Darg quotes How about we make a list of Tony's quotes: "Siena will be playing back on campus within 10 years" Many true fans on this board..... at the rate Siena is going you will be paying Tony to predict your future.
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Jul 4, 2015 11:32:35 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks or thought Siena was an elite or one of the best mid majors in the country is out of their mind. Winning an occasional NCAA game doesn't make you elite. Siena is a typical mid major and Maac school, nothing more.
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Post by MTS on Jul 4, 2015 11:36:15 GMT -5
I'm not giving up on the program by a long-shot but I think I am going to spend less time on this board. Total negativity fest.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 11:41:31 GMT -5
I should have some fun with this and pin a thread of Jimmy's finest quotes "team and program is right on target" a few days after Siena wraps up 20 loss season under Jimmy "See I have a 5 year plan" that he has yet to share with anyone "Oh we cant recruit against them" anytime a potential recruit mentions a A10 or CAA team recruiting them "Its all about the MAAC" "Siena is same as Albany or Vermont" "the MAAC is the little engine that could" if anyone can think or more post them in this thread I'll combine and pin it -- and feel free to use Jimmy quotes or Darg quotes How about we make a list of Tony's quotes: "Siena will be playing back on campus within 10 years" Many true fans on this board..... At what point does the TU become unaffordable? I don't know how the revenue stream is allocated but one would assume that season ticket holders bear the brunt of the rental cost. Side that with dwindling walk ups and a general malaise about the program lately there may be a hint of truth to Tony's sentiment. A big empty arena isn't a recruiting advantage.
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Post by SaintsFan on Jul 4, 2015 11:49:53 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks or thought Siena was an elite or one of the best mid majors in the country is out of their mind. Winning an occasional NCAA game doesn't make you elite. Siena is a typical mid major and Maac school, nothing more. Their spoken aspirations were exactly that. Perhaps you don't understand the word aspirations.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 11:51:44 GMT -5
I'm not giving up on the program by a long-shot but I think I am going to spend less time on this board. Total negativity fest. I agree...every time I read this board the "sky is falling".......maybe Misspractice will invite us up to his boat so we could all chill out........this board is tough to read. Is there another Siena message board we can read......I know Tony, "then don't read it" maybe that's a great quote.....lol.........this is hoping that the rain stops so we can get outside and enjoy the summer.......because you can't enjoy this board.. I'm glad Siena has more fans like IndianSaint then a few "Chicken Littles" on this board
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Post by SaintsFan on Jul 4, 2015 11:52:06 GMT -5
I'm not giving up on the program by a long-shot but I think I am going to spend less time on this board. Total negativity fest. Sometimes... Especially you... Like to live in la la land of make believe. Truth sometimes isn't all roses and fairy dust.
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Post by SaintsFan on Jul 4, 2015 11:55:19 GMT -5
I'm not giving up on the program by a long-shot but I think I am going to spend less time on this board. Total negativity fest. I agree...every time I read this board the "sky is falling".......maybe Misspractice will invite us up to his boat so we could all chill out........this board is tough to read. Is there another Siena message board we can read......I know Tony, "then don't read it" maybe that's a great quote.....lol.........this is hoping that the rain stops so we can get outside and enjoy the summer.......because you can't enjoy this board.. I'm glad Siena has more fans like IndianSaint then a few "Chicken Littles" on this board Don't worry some of us negative people will be gone soon enough. I know... You can't wait
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Post by MTS on Jul 4, 2015 12:01:55 GMT -5
I'm not giving up on the program by a long-shot but I think I am going to spend less time on this board. Total negativity fest. Sometimes... Especially you... Like to live in la la land of make believe. Truth sometimes isn't all roses and fairy dust. You don't think I'm pissed Siena has gone 66-97 since the three-peat? That Fran had Siena on the verge of being a house hold mid-major nationally and potentially in the A10 and the administration pissed it away hiring Mitch? Of course I am! This administration (i.e. D'Arg) has fired 3 coaches in the last 18 years with two of them being two of the worst coaches in MAAC history (Beyer and Mitch). I've said it before Siena needs a REAL AD. This is a big year for Patsos. I think he did a bad job last year (after a good job in year 1) and he does say cringe worthy things at times (Loyola fans accurately predicted that) but I want to see what he can do with HIS team heading into his third season. If he doesn't get the job done this year and next then I will be on board with dumping him. And if Jimmy washes out D'Arg should be out the door with him. Also priests should not be hiring basketball coaches anymore. Period. I don't want to give Jimmy a complete pass but let's face it Mitch firebombed the program - again it is on the administration for giving him a four year guaranteed contract when he had NO OTHER OPTIONS. But you can't blame Mitch anymore if you're Jimmy - now it is your baby. I've got no beef with people complaining (hell I often agree with a lot of it) but what good does it do to state it over and over and over again?
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Post by Tony on Jul 4, 2015 12:49:47 GMT -5
Not sure where this became about me or Saintsfan
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