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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 17:39:42 GMT -5
You are right about Melsahn - he was tied to Fran's hip and there was no way he'd stay here. Unfortunately, some of us (like me) didn't read the tea leaves on that one. Fran has a definite skill in designing and implementing plays to work to the strengths of certain players while maintaining fallback options when the #1 or #2 option failed due to the defense, etc. He rarely put kids in positions where they had a high probability of failure. He also made it a hallmark of his recruiting process to identify kids with decent to very good basketball IQ's. The man was and still is a winner.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 17:45:53 GMT -5
Wow 6 pages of ink for a kid that isn't even coming here.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jan 29, 2015 17:53:43 GMT -5
Then you must have been real pissed when we got Hasbrouck, Moore and Franklin, because none of them had any real interest/scholarships. Franklin had an offer from Lasalle and late interest from VCU (although VCU wasn't the VCU that we know today) Moore had little interest and mostly because he weighed about 140 lbs coming out of highschool. Ubiles was considering between Seton Hall Rhode Island and UMass. again.... seeing as you are struggling with grasping my point.... nearly every kid we seem to recruit right now falls in the panning for an unearthed gem category. Whereas you see above that Fran was recruiting up, as did Lanier before him. Yes... every now and then they would take a gamble on a kid... but for the most part battled with good programs for good kids Nobody mentioned Ubiles, I mentioned Hasbrouck. Ubiles was one of those "unique" guys well worth recruiting even though he was better than us. He lived close by, played for the City Rocks, spent alot of time up here because of that. Made it clear he wanted to get out of Po'town but not too far. Great get, and well worth the time. the other three were gifts. *I don't remember Alex having any other scholarships. LaSalle may have recruited him, but we got him for the same resons we got the other stars. They had warts. Alex's was being a 6'5" PF. How'd Marquis work out? We didn't beat out any "good schools" for him did we? Lavon falls into your criteria (A-10 interest), and so does Wolfe.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jan 29, 2015 17:58:15 GMT -5
Fran did get lucky. He got three players who flew under the radar in Hasbrouck, Moore and Franklin. He had an impact player in Eddie served up. BUT, he was also SMART enough to know how to get them to gel into a winning team. That was obvious even in his first year when he played to the strengths of those 'role players' he was left with after Lanier. And....I will say it again, Basabe was never coming to Siena. I don't begrudge Fran for cashing in on his success at Siena, but Basabe's signing was specifically attached directly to Fran who I do believe already knew he wasn't staying here. Fran did get lucky, and while most feel like it was the talent, I think he got luckier that the 3 mentioned were all natural leaders. THAT is why we won those 3 MAAC titles in a row. Those 3 kids character, on the court, was every bit as important as their basketball skills. Mitch didn't recruit any leaders. And after two years, I'm not sure Jimmy did either.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jan 29, 2015 18:07:34 GMT -5
you see, this is the concern as we observe the recruiting efforts thus far for Siena. Many of the kids Patsos team goes after are at or near the NEC/AE schools. Mitch looked at some bigger names but often wound up on his C and D list. Patsos seems to be starting with the B and C lists of previous coaches here at Siena. Or at least he appears to be trying to find a sleeper in nearly every recruit. That being said... he did get Fisher who seemed like a MAAC or higher kid at least from the rankings. Wormley falls into the "sleeper" category. In my opinion you've got to be locking horns with some A10 schools, some lower level big east schools ... and then you can also be involved with kids who are obvious for this level and maybe once in a while grab a sleeper type that seems to be falling to the NEC AE level. We seem to be the reverse of this philosophy right now. Most of the kids I would like to see recruited should be possible A10 level recruits. This staff just doesn't seem to bother. your thoughts, slim? Hoopjunkie we need to stop saying bad things about A/E and Nec kids because we got smacked by vermont and albany hate to say it.. We need high level players but don't knock conferences that have beat us Where did I mention those conferences?
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Post by greenblood on Jan 29, 2015 18:08:18 GMT -5
Wow 6 pages of ink for a kid that isn't even coming here. Yeah, the thread sort of veered off the track.....maybe that's a good way to stay off the SMACK board!
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jan 29, 2015 18:57:18 GMT -5
The white elephant in the recruiting room is figuring out if more DMV will help or hurt the team off the court at this point, IMHO. I think your post answers that question loud and clear. Everything that happens at Siena good and bad is made public in Bmore/DMV. Some stuff should be kept in house. I know of few situations threw out the MAAC this year at other programs, but it's kept close in house not put out to the general public. And you are one of the main posters on bmorehoops putting out bad info on Siena. By PMs and Post on the board. In house stuff is kept in house. Folks like yourself leak stuff out to social media about Siena that's not even true.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jan 29, 2015 19:06:27 GMT -5
Saintfan- Few thoughts and examples I don't pay a lot attention to offers and who's recruiting kid. I look more at the kids talent, character, work ethic. Few examples one being Marquise Wright didn't have a lot of offers, and easily could play in the A10. There's guys such a Pankey, Lawrence who went to HM schools transferred down and still are avg players in the MAAC. On the other hand you have guys like Zaid Hearst, Ousmane Drame who came from the NEC, but are ALL MAAC players and prob top 5-10 players in the MAAC. I just don't believe who's recruiting kid means a lot to be honest. There's also a lot fake offers throwing out as well.
As far as Siena or any other program I say recruit the kids that fit your style of play. Siena and Pastos love to trap and run, so he should have a very fast and athletic team, but he doesn't. I think that's where a lot of there struggles on the defensive side of the ball come from. The players can't play the style of play Pastos is used to playing. If you take say VCU he recruits kids that fit his style of play same with Wisconsin. I will go down to the mid major level I believe Iona, Manhattan, Qpac do as well. I will say right now it's a personnel issue with Siena. Lastly, player development is the biggest thing IMO from Freshman- Senior year do guys get better.
I understand WHO is recruiting them isn't the end all be all each and every time... but kids that are being recruited heavily by solid mids and higher generally pan out well. Siena, as I posted above has been scrounging for unearthed gems. I do agree on Wright and knew he was the most integral signing of any when Patsos came in. (I know PPC hates hearing that) I COMPLETELY agree on personnel issues and Siena. ive been saying from day one ... the team isn't athletic nor fast enough to play this style. I then go look and see who Siena has been battling in the recruiting trenches against and it is pretty revealing. Fisher is a nice recruit but Im afraid he isn't going to help in the areas that are lacking... outside of perhaps toughness. Wormley... I really don't know much about. I hear hes a great defender. Outside of that, Siena really needs offense to go along with athletic/quick defenders[/quotpg Lavon was the number one recruit #Facts Wright ended up being better than expected and became a starter at Siena rather than a backup at Loyola. Siena needed a pg more than a SF.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jan 29, 2015 19:13:11 GMT -5
you aren't signing those kids (a10) if you aren't even recruiting them. Poole Anosike Jackson Basabe Burdine Wignot Franklin Rossiter Ubiles Griffin Mike Haddix Antoine Jordan Kojo Mensah Jack McClinton Al Fisher Tommy Mitchell Justin Miller Paul Williams Dwayne Archbold James Clinton and Im sure Im missing others, are all players who Siena had some legit MAAC+Higher competition for. As Ive said... it just seems like the past 5 years we've gone astray. Poole was the last and he signed with McCaffrey ... so a ten year window from 2000 on, Siena battled with good competition for recruits. The past 5 years its been all about NEC AE type competition. You guys are happy with the Cain recruitment right? He's got Cinn, Pitt, and a few other BCS schools and Siena. IF they all offer him, what do you think the chances are of getting him? You can stay in contact with him, as he tells us to wait in the corner and see if these big boys offer or not. I fully understand the food chain in recruiting, but I wouldn't waste a lot of time on him. I'd be full court pressing a guy we can get, like Nico, and spend less time on a guy where we are his 6th choice. As for the list you posted, we'd have to go over each kid and see what thye actually had offered. LOTS of j=kids get a letter from a school,a nd they tell the scouting servies, "Yeah, VCU, Temple, Xavier, Prov...and oh yeah Siena are recruiting me." Meanwhile, we're the only one in th ekids living room, trying to set up an official visit. And we all know there's no difference between the lower 3/4 teams in the A-10, and the top 3/4 of the MAAC. Spot on HJ. Patsos coached on the HM and MM level in MD and knows what targets to go after. Its more about fit on our level since every ranked player believes they are headed to the NBA and don't believe the MAAC is the place to go to get there.
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Post by greenblood on Jan 29, 2015 19:18:16 GMT -5
I think your post answers that question loud and clear. Everything that happens at Siena good and bad is made public in Bmore/DMV. Some stuff should be kept in house. I know of few situations threw out the MAAC this year at other programs, but it's kept close in house not put out to the general public. And you are one of the main posters on bmorehoops putting out bad info on Siena. By PMs and Post on the board. In house stuff is kept in house. Folks like yourself leak stuff out to social media about Siena that's not even true. I'll send this to SMACK myself. Didn't you hear your precious Tony when he said what happens on the BMORE board stays there? Go have a drink; I've got good games to watch tonight and am not interested in an effing pissing match with you.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jan 29, 2015 19:21:26 GMT -5
That's why that guy should keep it in the DMV. He is a snake and has you fooled. His post on bmorehoops are not those of a Siena fan. In fact he hates Siena and has said so on the open forum. He comes here to start trouble.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Jan 29, 2015 19:26:27 GMT -5
Slim, Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to this board. Your insight is fresh and insightful. Something that we lack around here sometimes (including myself). So from your conversations with players and parents why is Siena not viewed as the top pick in the MAAC for kids looking to play ball? I know you referenced above how Wolfe not working out didn't help, but is it a perceived lack of opportunity for kids? Jimmy's personality? Lack of aggressive recruiting? This boards bashing of certain players? Is there one or two things that are dragging us down? Or are we really just getting out worked by the other MAAC schools? Hooligan- No problem at all. I just think the Bmore/DMV is hotbed area for talent, so the other MAAC schools are recruiting and having just as much success right now. Qpac always had MD kids, but now the jump to the MAAC has helped them, Marist brings in Maker and he's aggressive so that helps them, Monmouth similar to Qpac the jump to the MAAC helps them, so all in all Siena is recruiting against some new comers in the MAAC that are going after talent as well. I believe Pastos got the guys he liked in Fisher/Wormley. In the Bmore area I believe Pastos will get kids. This adds substance to what I was saying in regards to that it is going to be tougher to add talent and win the league now that MOnmouth and Quinny are in it. If one or both could start winning games in the NCAA tournament it could help raise the profile of the MAAC (and all the other teams) but other than that it is just taking away opportunities for Siena in a one bid league.
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slim
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Post by slim on Jan 29, 2015 20:07:29 GMT -5
And you are one of the main posters on bmorehoops putting out bad info on Siena. By PMs and Post on the board. In house stuff is kept in house. Folks like yourself leak stuff out to social media about Siena that's not even true. I'll send this to SMACK myself. Didn't you hear your precious Tony when he said what happens on the BMORE board stays there? Go have a drink; I've got good games to watch tonight and am not interested in an effing pissing match with you. No need to feed into her she just wants attention. I don't hate Siena or any other program. I"m not Siena fan or Marist/Qpac/Fairfield etc. I'm fan of the kids I coached and want to see all them do well, so I follow them and there prespectives Conferences. As mentor and Coach I take pride in learning every Conf and as many programs as possible. Siena fans are diehards and I respect that , and will continue to give you guys any insight about the kids/prospects I know. Too bad some don't approve. Lol
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slim
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Post by slim on Jan 29, 2015 20:08:44 GMT -5
Hooligan- No problem at all. I just think the Bmore/DMV is hotbed area for talent, so the other MAAC schools are recruiting and having just as much success right now. Qpac always had MD kids, but now the jump to the MAAC has helped them, Marist brings in Maker and he's aggressive so that helps them, Monmouth similar to Qpac the jump to the MAAC helps them, so all in all Siena is recruiting against some new comers in the MAAC that are going after talent as well. I believe Pastos got the guys he liked in Fisher/Wormley. In the Bmore area I believe Pastos will get kids. This adds substance to what I was saying in regards to that it is going to be tougher to add talent and win the league now that MOnmouth and Quinny are in it. If one or both could start winning games in the NCAA tournament it could help raise the profile of the MAAC (and all the other teams) but other than that it is just taking away opportunities for Siena in a one bid league. Spot on!! That was my point as well. Well said!
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bigsaintg
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Post by bigsaintg on Jan 29, 2015 20:08:49 GMT -5
I think in hindsight Moore ended up way better tha Fran expected given he sign DelaRiosa the next class and that kid was good too
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