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Post by playerparentcoach on Jun 25, 2013 12:20:07 GMT -5
I have a question for anyone willing to answer....why does Lavon have to be labeled as a 4? I would agree with that if he did not have the skills...I was hoping when he got to college under the right system with the right coach he would not be the best option on the post but a developing perimeter player...he will do whatever to win....I thought we found the situation that would allow his game to grow not take one for the team again and play big..
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Jun 25, 2013 12:33:53 GMT -5
I have a question for anyone willing to answer....why does Lavon have to be labeled as a 4? I would agree with that if he did not have the skills...I was hoping when he got to college under the right system with the right coach he would not be the best option on the post but a developing perimeter player...he will do whatever to win....I thought we found the situation that would allow his game to grow not take one for the team again and play big.. I like the prospect of playing a point guard, a big guy, and three wings. In that case you could call them whatever numbers you want. Lavon would only be the 4 in the sense that he would be called on to defend a post player when teams go with two bigs.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 12:43:02 GMT -5
I have a question for anyone willing to answer....why does Lavon have to be labeled as a 4? I would agree with that if he did not have the skills...I was hoping when he got to college under the right system with the right coach he would not be the best option on the post but a developing perimeter player...he will do whatever to win....I thought we found the situation that would allow his game to grow not take one for the team again and play big.. Unfortunately, skilled players end up out of position all the time at mid majors and low majors, because the programs don't sign or develop bigs. Guys like Osinski, Ryan, and Scoop Jordan had great Siena careers, but stunted their professional development, by playing the 4 or 5, when they should have been guards. I think you have the right vision for Lavon, but if , as some here think, Bisping, Wolfe, Ogunyemi, and Hopper aren't ready, Lavon will have to play the 4. Personally, I agree with you that Javion will be fine and Lavon can play his game.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 12:45:16 GMT -5
Maybe it is just 3 years of having slow it down basketball but the prospect of Buie, Poole, and Long out there at the same time sounds far more exciting to me right now than Ogunyemi and Silas out there together. Quite honestly, Lavon's and Silas' defense are the only chance we having at making a dent in this league this year. Even with that, our PG quickness, and Poole's toughness...we're still fighting to be in the top 4 in defense. IMO Lavon needs to just play, play, play ..forcing TOs and blocking shots. His offense isn't as important. Manhattan, FF, for sure will be tougher and play much bigger inside than us. We're not even close to them in the toughness/athleticism category. Marist & Rider also have established some defensive presence though Rider two best perimeter defenders from last's years 91st ranked D are gone but they have a new post player too. Marist already has two of the league's best defenders in Kemp and Lewis. A new coach could make them more cohesive to the point where they have a top D. Iona doesn't play defense but it usually doesn't matter for them. Our strength vs. most teams could be our 3 pt shooting depending on the lineups used and who takes the shots. Also, PG seems to be a potential strength vs the rest of the league with only Sledge, Baron, Alvarado, and Morton the returning starters.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 12:55:56 GMT -5
I have a question for anyone willing to answer....why does Lavon have to be labeled as a 4? I would agree with that if he did not have the skills...I was hoping when he got to college under the right system with the right coach he would not be the best option on the post but a developing perimeter player...he will do whatever to win....I thought we found the situation that would allow his game to grow not take one for the team again and play big.. Lavon will get a chance to showcase HIS game whether he's playing with 3 guards or just 2 in this league. There's not a lot of difference. Lavon is a victim of his own versatility, which is never a bad thing to scouts. I think he's going to make his impact known regardless. He'll play both positions and probably do it well. He's going to be just running around being all awesome and stuff. Jimmy can go big or small and Lavon will be at the core of either lineup. At the end of the day, that will be more impressive to scouts than anything else. Every SF Siena has started over the last 5 years has played the PF for us at times. Eddy Ubiles played it a lot his soph year. Wignot played it a lot throughout. Burdine played it quite a bit last year. Even Poole played it as a frosh some. It's part of the game. The fact that Ubiles could handle that certainly didn't hurt him. They're going to play big, they're going to play small, they're going to press, they're going to slow it down, and they're probably going to do it all in the same half. Also, adjusted Tempo ratings per Kenpom for last 3 years: Mitch = 238, 197, 54 Jimmy = 264, 257, 191 Jimmy 9 yr ave. = 167 Fran's Siena ave. = 65 Jimmy is gonna press more effectively but don't expect the overall speed of the game to change too much. I think the main difference is Jimmy will manage the lineups better and do things more effectively.
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brian
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Post by brian on Jun 25, 2013 13:52:12 GMT -5
I have a question for anyone willing to answer....why does Lavon have to be labeled as a 4? I would agree with that if he did not have the skills...I was hoping when he got to college under the right system with the right coach he would not be the best option on the post but a developing perimeter player...he will do whatever to win....I thought we found the situation that would allow his game to grow not take one for the team again and play big.. I think people here that are calling him a 4 actually want him on the perimeter as a 4 and not in the post. The last couple years when we've had Anosike down low along with another big, whether that was Silas, Martens or two years ago Walters the offense tended to be very slow and a lot of the focus was getting the ball on the block. What I think people are looking for by having Lavon at the 4 is to get more athleticism and more perimeter play along with attacking the hoop. I think what also gets lost some of times is at the MAAC level rosters/lineups tend to run a little small. Players that get called 3's tend to really be 2's and guys that are called 4's tend to really be 3's. Me personally I wouldn't worry so much about what we as fans label the player so much as what he ends up being asked to do.
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Post by DelmartianEd on Jun 25, 2013 14:41:20 GMT -5
Yes, we're all scarred from three years of Mitch ball.
But this coaching staff is a brain transplant. Every new staff member has either played for Jimmy, worked for Jimmy, or both. So we won't necessarily see what we expect to see, this is new territory for the Siena community.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jun 25, 2013 14:51:38 GMT -5
Thanks for that...I am not worried at all because I trust Patsos and believe he knows Lavon's game ....I just wondered why people always see Lavon's size and not his skill...I realize he would have to go to a BCS school to play with the size that would make him a perimeter player that can play big rather than the other way around at most MMs....Patsos ended up being the next best thing....I am counting on everyone doing their part and it should all work out.
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Post by siena12077 on Jun 25, 2013 15:12:48 GMT -5
I have a question for anyone willing to answer....why does Lavon have to be labeled as a 4? I would agree with that if he did not have the skills...I was hoping when he got to college under the right system with the right coach he would not be the best option on the post but a developing perimeter player...he will do whatever to win....I thought we found the situation that would allow his game to grow not take one for the team again and play big.. I was just throwing a number "4" out there meaning it doesn't really matter in Jimmy's lineup. What I meant by that is having a point guard, 3 wings, and 1 true post player is probably most effective offensively for this team. Playing 4 around the post spreads the floor for driving and kick outs to shooters. It would also help having 3 wings while pressing the opposing team. Where it may hurt is interior defense and rebounding. We shall see though. My feelings regarding LaVon are that he should see major minutes and a freshman regardless of a big or small lineup.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jun 25, 2013 15:48:35 GMT -5
I have a question for anyone willing to answer....why does Lavon have to be labeled as a 4? I would agree with that if he did not have the skills...I was hoping when he got to college under the right system with the right coach he would not be the best option on the post but a developing perimeter player...he will do whatever to win....I thought we found the situation that would allow his game to grow not take one for the team again and play big.. I was just throwing a number "4" out there meaning it doesn't really matter in Jimmy's lineup. What I meant by that is having a point guard, 3 wings, and 1 true post player is probably most effective offensively for this team. Playing 4 around the post spreads the floor for driving and kick outs to shooters. It would also help having 3 wings while pressing the opposing team. Where it may hurt is interior defense and rebounding. We shall see though. My feelings regarding LaVon are that he should see major minutes and a freshman regardless of a big or small lineup. I agree with you there...in that sense his versatility helps...the fact that Lavon can defend bigger does give the team more options...I am confident Patsos will take advantage of that and not take advantage of Lavon like his HS coach did
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Post by Tony on Jun 25, 2013 16:38:57 GMT -5
I Jimmy is gonna press more effectively but don't expect the overall speed of the game to change much. . C’mon get your head out of the stats- have you watched any Patsos coached games the last 9 years? His tempo is nothing like Mitch’s..nothing.. nada, none, zippo not remotely close As for the other stuff in this thread on Lavon--- kid can play . He is a matchup nightmare for opposing teams- Jimmy will use him wherever that creates the biggest match up problem. The question in my mind is can Lavon guard D1 wings..and in many MAAC teams cases a 3rd guard – doesn’t matter what position you try and pigeon hole Lavon into—the kid is built like a 4 and has the ball handling skills of a 3—if he can defend and hit his outside shots he will get a lot of time on the floor – call it any position you want but he will be in the playing group somewhere
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 16:55:03 GMT -5
C’mon get your head out of the stats- have you watched any Patsos coached games the last 9 years? His tempo is nothing like Mitch’s..nothing.. nada, none, zippo not remotely close Hey, I see the difference in styles but those are the numbers per Kenpom. I'm just presenting them. You disagree, take it up with Ken Pomeroy. 66-67 ppg isn't really running. Jimmy ran more earlier in his Loyola run. The past few years he's run a 2 big lineup out there as well with fairly grind it out game, only he did it better than us. They also had a lot of injuries and were without a PG half the year last year so it's deceptive. The last three years are Jimmy's slowest tempo's in his MAAC reign. He's gonna press more than Mitch. He's gonna push the ball more than Mitch. Sure. But this isn't Fran ball, either. Jimmy is more like something in the middle. What he DOES do is seem to create more easy baskets for his team, something Mitch was terrible at. Loyola dunked on us constantly the last two years. Loyola was tougher than us at our own game, which is why Mitch was 1-6 vs. Jimmy. Jimmy was just as comfortable playing a half court game as we were. Also, Jimmy put more of an emphasis on attacking the basket and drawing fouls. Mitch had a passive offense.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Jun 25, 2013 17:04:37 GMT -5
The question whether or not Lavon can defend DI wings needs to be answered to maximize his potential ....he could not prove it in HS because he was always the best option Inside ....I have been waiting for him to get the opportunity to prove it in college.... C’mon get your head out of the stats- have you watched any Patsos coached games the last 9 years? His tempo is nothing like Mitch’s..nothing.. nada, none, zippo not remotely close As for the other stuff in this thread on Lavon--- kid can play . He is a matchup nightmare for opposing teams- Jimmy will use him wherever that creates the biggest match up problem. The question in my mind is can Lavon guard D1 wings..and in many MAAC teams cases a 3rd guard – doesn’t matter what position you try and pigeon hole Lavon into—the kid is built like a 4 and has the ball handling skills of a 3—if he can defend and hit his outside shots he will get a lot of time on the floor – call it any position you want but he will be in the playing group somewhere
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Post by Tony on Jun 25, 2013 17:14:09 GMT -5
C He's gonna press more than Mitch. He's gonna push the ball more than Mitch. Sure. But this isn't Fran ball, either. Jimmy is more like something in the middle. What he DOES do is seem to create more easy baskets for his team, something Mitch was terrible at. Loyola dunked on us constantly the last two years. Loyola was tougher than us at our own game, which is why Mitch was 1-6 vs. Jimmy. Jimmy was just as comfortable playing a half court game as we were. agreed he is somewhere in the middle of those two-- but you said dont expect speed of game to change-- I couldn't disagree more Here is all you need to know about speed of game— Games over 70+ points- Jimmy 14- Mitch 4( and the 4 games were against some of the worst teams in D1- Fordham- and Marist 3 times) Games teams scored 60 points or less – Jimmy 4 – Mitch 17 Times under 50 – Mitch 3—Jimmy zero--- those stats speak for themselves- no comparison in speed of game between Jimmy and Mitch-- and quite frankly its insulting
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Post by Tony on Jun 25, 2013 17:18:10 GMT -5
The question whether or not Lavon can defend DI wings needs to be answered to maximize his potential ....he could not prove it in HS because he was always the best option Inside ....I have been waiting for him to get the opportunity to prove it in college.... I have no problem with that statement PPC-- I expect too see Lavon get that opportunity
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