Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jul 20, 2021 2:02:18 GMT -5
The bigger sell for me on him is the job he did all those years in JUCO. JUCO life is hard… constant recruiting since your roster flips every two years max, and you’re sending kids to D1. He did that at a high level and finally got his D1 opportunity at one of the worst programs in D1. TTU hasn’t been to the NCAAT since 1963. He’s a smart guy, he’s had to grind and be a tough places, and now he gets his best chance at the D1 level. Carm trusts him. I trust him. I don't think Tenn Tech was his first D1 coaching opportunity. I believe he also coached at Jacksonville.
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jul 20, 2021 4:40:49 GMT -5
The bigger sell for me on him is the job he did all those years in JUCO. JUCO life is hard… constant recruiting since your roster flips every two years max, and you’re sending kids to D1. He did that at a high level and finally got his D1 opportunity at one of the worst programs in D1. TTU hasn’t been to the NCAAT since 1963. He’s a smart guy, he’s had to grind and be a tough places, and now he gets his best chance at the D1 level. Carm trusts him. I trust him. I don't think Tenn Tech was his first D1 coaching opportunity. I believe he also coached at Jacksonville. That was 20 years ago. What was he, 25?
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jul 20, 2021 6:52:24 GMT -5
I don't think Tenn Tech was his first D1 coaching opportunity. I believe he also coached at Jacksonville. That was 20 years ago. What was he, 25? Probably something like that. He should have a bunch of connections in the southeastern united states. That is key new recruiting ground for the program - it's the region 3 star frosh Taihland Owens hails from. I hope one of the other new guys replaces Simon's Midwest focus. They got some good players from there too.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jul 20, 2021 6:52:50 GMT -5
Is there a “ Murray” on that 44 loss roster? Point is we lost 2 pretty good recruiters in Simon and Wyche, is this the guy that’s going to fill that void? It’s a serious question and a question that needs to be asked given what we lost. He may be fine, idk…… im with class of 94, sure it’s may work out but this isn’t what I really expected. If one were to go by the record of a new coach's former school as an indication of his recruiting ability, one would have likewise thought Bob Simon was a shitty recruiter too. Have you seen Maine's record the past several years? A bad record is usually on the head coach, not the recruiting of the assistants. Siena has had a few crappy coaches that couldn't win with some pretty good talent. Simon was pretty well known and had extensive D1 experience and connections - Alabama (2015-17), Providence (2011-15), Fairfield 2006-11).
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jul 20, 2021 7:00:35 GMT -5
If one were to go by the record of a new coach's former school as an indication of his recruiting ability, one would have likewise thought Bob Simon was a shitty recruiter too. Have you seen Maine's record the past several years? A bad record is usually on the head coach, not the recruiting of the assistants. Siena has had a few crappy coaches that couldn't win with some pretty good talent. Simon was pretty well known and had extensive D1 experience and connections - Alabama (2015-17), Providence (2011-15), Fairfield 2006-11). Not even close! That doesn't change the fact that Simon was hired away from a school with multiple single digit win seasons just like TTU immediately before coming to Siena. Didn't that mean his recruiting sucked there?
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bigsaintg
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Post by bigsaintg on Jul 20, 2021 7:20:16 GMT -5
Simon was pretty well known and had extensive D1 experience and connections - Alabama (2015-17), Providence (2011-15), Fairfield 2006-11). Not even close! That doesn't change the fact that Simon was hired away from a school with multiple single digit win seasons just like TTU immediately before coming to Siena. Didn't that mean his recruiting sucked there? Or maybe he recruited well but others didn’t ro round out the team. Or he recruited well but kids got injured or the head coaches couldn’t coach. A a million reasons why Simons teams may not have won
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jul 20, 2021 7:25:33 GMT -5
That doesn't change the fact that Simon was hired away from a school with multiple single digit win seasons just like TTU immediately before coming to Siena. Didn't that mean his recruiting sucked there? Or maybe he recruited well but others didn’t ro round out the team. Or he recruited well but kids got injured or the head coaches couldn’t coach. A a million reasons why Simons teams may not have won That's exactly the point I'm making regarding King. The implication against him by some was that Tennessee Tech sucked because he can't recruit.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jul 20, 2021 11:40:49 GMT -5
Simon was pretty well known and had extensive D1 experience and connections - Alabama (2015-17), Providence (2011-15), Fairfield 2006-11). Not even close! That doesn't change the fact that Simon was hired away from a school with multiple single digit win seasons just like TTU immediately before coming to Siena. Didn't that mean his recruiting sucked there? Come on counselor…. So you exclusively look at ME where Simon was hired in September 2017 of the 17/18 season and you completely dismiss his success- experience - connections gained / achieved at the power 5-6 level @ the SEC & BE? I’m not saying how King will work out, I’m just questioning whether he mitigates what we lost in Simon and Wyche in the recruiting dept. Apparently you think he is, we’ll see. Carm’s got 2 first place slots, so it’s hard to argue, let’s see if we can make the next jump, winning a MAAC tournament.
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Jul 20, 2021 11:57:39 GMT -5
Not sure why all of the negative comments on here. Par for the course. I think Coach King checks a lot of boxes for the Saints and will be a good addition to the staff. Obviously Carm trusts and believes in him. Can't wait to see what he will bring to the program and all that will be accomplished. Go Saints!
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Jul 20, 2021 12:21:53 GMT -5
Not sure why all of the negative comments on here. Par for the course. I think Coach King checks a lot of boxes for the Saints and will be a good addition to the staff. Obviously Carm trusts and believes in him. Can't wait to see what he will bring to the program and all that will be accomplished. Go Saints! Agreed. Like his experience, which he a lot of, but he's only 45. He needs to be that coach the players can relate to. THAT will be as important as his recruiting. The NBA guy is for Carm to bounce stuff off. How he relates to college kids at this time of his life is a question mark. I think Marcus will fill both roles we need him for.
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jul 20, 2021 13:27:14 GMT -5
That doesn't change the fact that Simon was hired away from a school with multiple single digit win seasons just like TTU immediately before coming to Siena. Didn't that mean his recruiting sucked there? Come on counselor…. So you exclusively look at ME where Simon was hired in September 2017 of the 17/18 season and you completely dismiss his success- experience - connections gained / achieved at the power 5-6 level @ the SEC & BE? 🤣😂 I’m not saying how King will work out, I’m just questioning the hire and whether he’s anywhere near the caliber of what we lost in Simon and Wyche in the recruiting dept. Apparently you think he is, we’ll see! Carm’s got 2 first place slots, so it’s hard to argue, but let’s see if we can make the next jump, winning a MAAC tournament! And where did all that success success- experience - connections gained / achieved at the power 5-6 level @ the SEC & BE get Simon at Maine? Did you similarly take into consideration any of King's work before Tennessee Tech? Looks like a hard worker throughout his career who ascended all the way to associate head coach at a school in a peer conference. TTU's Jr. Clay is a multiple time all OVC player who probably would have been first team all-league in the MAAC this season with his stats. They had some talent. As for connections, you do realize that coaches on different levels know all the same people right? Any given high school or AAU coach is going to have both D1 and D2 level players on the same team. So the D1 and D2 coaches recruiting them are going to both have the same connections. And now instead of recruiting for a struggling head coach at a perennial doormat, he gets to do it for a successful coach at a school with a winning tradition. It's probably easier to land good players in that situation. Everybody wins. I don't presume to know where he ranks in caliber compared to the departed coaches. I'm looking forward to finding out. What I'm not doing is welcoming the guy with a wall of negativity by questioning his hiring. I'm giving Carm the benefit of the doubt that if he knew how to build a successful staff before, he can do it again.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jul 20, 2021 13:41:46 GMT -5
Come on counselor…. So you exclusively look at ME where Simon was hired in September 2017 of the 17/18 season and you completely dismiss his success- experience - connections gained / achieved at the power 5-6 level @ the SEC & BE? 🤣😂 I’m not saying how King will work out, I’m just questioning the hire and whether he’s anywhere near the caliber of what we lost in Simon and Wyche in the recruiting dept. Apparently you think he is, we’ll see! Carm’s got 2 first place slots, so it’s hard to argue, but let’s see if we can make the next jump, winning a MAAC tournament! And where did all that success success- experience - connections gained / achieved at the power 5-6 level @ the SEC & BE get Simon at Maine? Did you similarly take into consideration any of King's work before Tennessee Tech? Looks like a hard worker throughout his career who ascended all the way to associate head coach at a school in a peer conference. TTU's Jr. Clay is a multiple time all OVC player who probably would have been first team all-league in the MAAC this season with his stats. They had some talent. As for connections, you do realize that coaches on different levels know all the same people right? Any given high school or AAU coach is going to have both D1 and D2 level players on the same team. So the D1 and D2 coaches recruiting them are going to both have the same connections. And now instead of recruiting for a struggling head coach at a perennial doormat, he gets to do it for a successful coach at a school with a winning tradition. It's probably easier to land good players in that situation. Everybody wins. I don't presume to know where he ranks in caliber compared to the departed coaches. I'm looking forward to finding out. What I'm not doing is welcoming the guy with a wall of negativity by questioning his hiring. I'm giving Carm the benefit of the doubt that if he knew how to build a successful staff before, he can do it again. Clay was on the roster two years before King was hired. As for D1 D2 coaches having the same recruiting connections, you have no knowledge of his ties and region where he’s better connected. Relax counselor, I’m only questioning whether or not he can match or has the recruiting chops of Wyche and Simon? I’m not questioning his character or ability to work with players. Time will tell if can achieve in the recruiting department. As for giving Carm the benefit of doubt, I think I said the same above!
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Jul 20, 2021 14:51:39 GMT -5
And where did all that success success- experience - connections gained / achieved at the power 5-6 level @ the SEC & BE get Simon at Maine? Did you similarly take into consideration any of King's work before Tennessee Tech? Looks like a hard worker throughout his career who ascended all the way to associate head coach at a school in a peer conference. TTU's Jr. Clay is a multiple time all OVC player who probably would have been first team all-league in the MAAC this season with his stats. They had some talent. As for connections, you do realize that coaches on different levels know all the same people right? Any given high school or AAU coach is going to have both D1 and D2 level players on the same team. So the D1 and D2 coaches recruiting them are going to both have the same connections. And now instead of recruiting for a struggling head coach at a perennial doormat, he gets to do it for a successful coach at a school with a winning tradition. It's probably easier to land good players in that situation. Everybody wins. I don't presume to know where he ranks in caliber compared to the departed coaches. I'm looking forward to finding out. What I'm not doing is welcoming the guy with a wall of negativity by questioning his hiring. I'm giving Carm the benefit of the doubt that if he knew how to build a successful staff before, he can do it again. Clay was on the roster two years before King was hired. As for D1 D2 coaches having the same recruiting connections, you have no knowledge of his ties and region where he’s better connected. Relax counselor, I’m only questioning whether or not he can match or has the recruiting chops of Wyche and Simon? I’m not questioning his character or ability to work with players. Time will tell if can achieve in the recruiting department. As for giving Carm the benefit of doubt, I think I said the same above! I know when Clay came aboard relative to King. My point is not that King is who recruited him, but rather that the team has some talent and Tech's issue is likely more Pelphrey struggling than his assistants failing to recruit any talent. Good coaches win anywhere. If King was doing a poor job, I doubt he would have been promoted to Associate Head Coach. I don't presume to know what King's connections are or his preferred recruiting region. And neither do you...or anyone else on this board. But you know who does have that information? Carm. So let's defer to his judgment over any of ours. Agreed?
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jul 20, 2021 15:08:35 GMT -5
Clay was on the roster two years before King was hired. As for D1 D2 coaches having the same recruiting connections, you have no knowledge of his ties and region where he’s better connected. Relax counselor, I’m only questioning whether or not he can match or has the recruiting chops of Wyche and Simon? I’m not questioning his character or ability to work with players. Time will tell if can achieve in the recruiting department. As for giving Carm the benefit of doubt, I think I said the same above! I know when Clay came aboard relative to King. My point is not that King is who recruited him, but rather that the team has some talent and Tech's issue is likely more Pelphrey struggling than his assistants failing to recruit any talent. Good coaches win anywhere. If King was doing a poor job, I doubt he would have been promoted to Associate Head Coach. I don't presume to know what King's connections are or his preferred recruiting region. And neither do you...or anyone else on this board. But you know who does have that information? Carm. So let's defer to his judgment over any of ours. Agreed? Fair enough.
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Post by Tony on Jul 20, 2021 15:21:13 GMT -5
I'll keep an open mind on him- some of you guys are tough. We heard similar type complaints last year about Stormo. Nobody likes change and if our recruiting suffers than I'll agree with you. For now Welcome aboard coach King!! I'm cautiously optimistic about him!!
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