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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 7:53:52 GMT -5
Smithen was 2nd on the team in box +/- last year and has been right behind Pickett and Degnan all year this year. In fact, he’s hanging just outside top 10 in the MAAC in the category. It’s been that way all year.
Playing Darwiche and Seymour together so much was statistical suicide due to possessions. They don’t get rebounds, steals, etc.. Smithen’s steal rate has been mimicking Pickett’s all year.
It’s hard to see Smithen’s value in a couple 4 min spurts a game because his value increases with time...and each add’l possession he gets us.
Darwiche also fouls more, turns it over more, and has more shots taken than points. His +/- which is one of the worst is now being replaced by one of the best. Winning 7 of 8 is your result. The prorated math has showed it all year.
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legacy
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Post by legacy on Feb 11, 2019 8:24:43 GMT -5
thrilled that Kadeem is now getting the chance to show the promise he had all along. What a 360 for him- from being knocked down by the previous coach (literally and figuratively) to being the knock- out punch the Saints need
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bigfan
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Post by bigfan on Feb 11, 2019 8:35:15 GMT -5
Good to have you back, KK. I would generally agree that we might have won more with Smithen than Darwiche.... but it was a different Smithen and really a different team then. JC is pulling all the right cards... letting Camper and Smithen just blow stuff up defensively and both are really good straight-line drivers. They also pass the ball well, so it takes pressure off Jalen. Then you’ve got Seymour hitting 3’s, and Degnan doing the little things in a poor-mans Brett Bisping role. But Siena could have lost today and last Saturday against Iona and we’d just be fighting for a bye right now... it’s hard to say that this team would somehow be 11-1 or 10-2 with those guys. Siena has an identity now. They know what they want to do on every possession, they are smart, well-schooled, and don’t beat themselves. JC talks about the connectivity a lot and it’s palpable. That alone is enough to have us right in every game and then we just keep making plays late in games to win. I don't think it was a different Smithen or even a different team. It was a different JC.
Smithen's +/- was top 3 on the team even in Nov./Dec.
He gets you more possessions (rebs, stls, drawn charges) even before you talk about FG% defense. And he's always had a great PPS and A/TO. People were too focused on the quantity of points he got Siena rather than the quality of those points (PPS) and most importantly the additional possessions.
Kadeem is just being Kadeem. He's the same old energy guy he's always been. It's just now he's being valued and used accordingly. It's not like this is even the first time we've gotten a 'Kadeem bump'. He did the same thing this time last year when given more mins...though he's being used now better than Patsos used him. In my opinion, this run is largely because of that ~4+ ppg point differential that we were previously missing out on. All those steals, deflections, and add'l rebounds etc that he always gets... they add up over the course of a game. They both prevent other team from taking shots and add more shots to us.
Thank Kadeem Smithen for this run. He was the piece they should have known a month earlier they were missing. But now that they know, they're dangerous.
Welcome back, KK! I want to propose an alternate theory on why things have progressed as they have regarding the Smithen/Darwiche playing time discussion. I think it is likely that Darwiche was being played over Smithen primarily in order to help prepare him for his role on the team next year. I think it is also likely that JC and staff were putting less importance on wins this year until fairly recently, when it became apparent that they could actually contend for a title in what has become a wide open conference. All of a sudden, the "win NOW" mentality has taken over, and appropriately so. Combine that with the fact that Darwiche has not progressed a whole lot in recent appearances and here we are! KK - It seems likely that you were correct to be skeptical about Georges - with the returning and incoming players next year, I don't know that there will be a place for him based on what I've seen this season.
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mjs72
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Post by mjs72 on Feb 11, 2019 8:40:21 GMT -5
Good to have KK back.
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SIENA1971
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Post by SIENA1971 on Feb 11, 2019 8:52:14 GMT -5
Welcome back to this board KK. I agree with you that JC erred in going with Darwiche over Smithen and not really using Kadeem enough. Hindsight is always 20/20. But it's the mark of a good coach when they see the error in their ways and reverse their decisions instead of being stubborn and sticking with the same thing despite it not working. JC also extended the bench minutes & rotations from earlier in season . . . think some of early losses was due to team was running out of gas the last 5-10 minutes
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rickyp
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Post by rickyp on Feb 11, 2019 9:37:38 GMT -5
My Man welcome back KK
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 9:49:48 GMT -5
I don't think it was a different Smithen or even a different team. It was a different JC.
Smithen's +/- was top 3 on the team even in Nov./Dec.
He gets you more possessions (rebs, stls, drawn charges) even before you talk about FG% defense. And he's always had a great PPS and A/TO. People were too focused on the quantity of points he got Siena rather than the quality of those points (PPS) and most importantly the additional possessions.
Kadeem is just being Kadeem. He's the same old energy guy he's always been. It's just now he's being valued and used accordingly. It's not like this is even the first time we've gotten a 'Kadeem bump'. He did the same thing this time last year when given more mins...though he's being used now better than Patsos used him. In my opinion, this run is largely because of that ~4+ ppg point differential that we were previously missing out on. All those steals, deflections, and add'l rebounds etc that he always gets... they add up over the course of a game. They both prevent other team from taking shots and add more shots to us.
Thank Kadeem Smithen for this run. He was the piece they should have known a month earlier they were missing. But now that they know, they're dangerous.
Welcome back, KK! I want to propose an alternate theory on why things have progressed as they have regarding the Smithen/Darwiche playing time discussion. I think it is likely that Darwiche was being played over Smithen primarily in order to help prepare him for his role on the team next year. I think it is also likely that JC and staff were putting less importance on wins this year until fairly recently, when it became apparent that they could actually contend for a title in what has become a wide open conference. All of a sudden, the "win NOW" mentality has taken over, and appropriately so. Combine that with the fact that Darwiche has not progressed a whole lot in recent appearances and here we are! KK - It seems likely that you were correct to be skeptical about Georges - with the returning and incoming players next year, I don't know that there will be a place for him based on what I've seen this season. Unfortunately for Georges, with the guards that are coming in next year he’ll see very little time. I do agree with you that at the start of the season that JC may have been thinking in these terms. I also agree with Saintsfan that KS was a little awkward in the system, I’ll attribute that to JC placing more confidence in Georges. KK has been screaming about this since day one, now that Kadeem has the confidence of the staff I fully expect a brilliant end to his career at Siena, same for KD and EF. Outstanding play from these guys and the staff. Take that papi!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 9:53:52 GMT -5
I don't think it was a different Smithen or even a different team. It was a different JC.
Smithen's +/- was top 3 on the team even in Nov./Dec.
He gets you more possessions (rebs, stls, drawn charges) even before you talk about FG% defense. And he's always had a great PPS and A/TO. People were too focused on the quantity of points he got Siena rather than the quality of those points (PPS) and most importantly the additional possessions.
Kadeem is just being Kadeem. He's the same old energy guy he's always been. It's just now he's being valued and used accordingly. It's not like this is even the first time we've gotten a 'Kadeem bump'. He did the same thing this time last year when given more mins...though he's being used now better than Patsos used him. In my opinion, this run is largely because of that ~4+ ppg point differential that we were previously missing out on. All those steals, deflections, and add'l rebounds etc that he always gets... they add up over the course of a game. They both prevent other team from taking shots and add more shots to us.
Thank Kadeem Smithen for this run. He was the piece they should have known a month earlier they were missing. But now that they know, they're dangerous.
Welcome back, KK! I want to propose an alternate theory on why things have progressed as they have regarding the Smithen/Darwiche playing time discussion. I think it is likely that Darwiche was being played over Smithen primarily in order to help prepare him for his role on the team next year. I think it is also likely that JC and staff were putting less importance on wins this year until fairly recently, when it became apparent that they could actually contend for a title in what has become a wide open conference. All of a sudden, the "win NOW" mentality has taken over, and appropriately so. Combine that with the fact that Darwiche has not progressed a whole lot in recent appearances and here we are! KK - It seems likely that you were correct to be skeptical about Georges - with the returning and incoming players next year, I don't know that there will be a place for him based on what I've seen this season. Agreed. I think they wanted to see what they had but really they took maybe a little too long a look. With Carey and Walker coming on board, GD is kind of an afterthought going forward. He's neither pure PG nor SG and Pickett, Carey, and Walker are all potentially both.
Carey and Walker certainly have the athleticism and height to be great defenders in this league but I'm not yet sure if they have the defensive motor/pride that Smithen takes on that end of the floor. My new, latest pondering, is hoping that they can actually maintain this new found defensive intensity post Smithen and Degnan.
I hope that Seymour isn't needed as much next year and that, if we need a specialist shooter, maybe that guy is just Richard who does, not much, but a bit more other things. If Walker isn't ready to go immediately, defense could be a concern next year as you just know that Richard and Seymour's roles would expand as a result. We'd then need someone like Sutherland to make a big defensive impact...which is a risk as he's a bit of a wild card in my eyes.
Just something to watch for. My money is on Walker, though. I think he's kind of a Prosper Karangwa clone.
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Post by greenblood on Feb 11, 2019 10:24:41 GMT -5
Welcome back, KK! I want to propose an alternate theory on why things have progressed as they have regarding the Smithen/Darwiche playing time discussion. I think it is likely that Darwiche was being played over Smithen primarily in order to help prepare him for his role on the team next year. I think it is also likely that JC and staff were putting less importance on wins this year until fairly recently, when it became apparent that they could actually contend for a title in what has become a wide open conference. All of a sudden, the "win NOW" mentality has taken over, and appropriately so. Combine that with the fact that Darwiche has not progressed a whole lot in recent appearances and here we are! KK - It seems likely that you were correct to be skeptical about Georges - with the returning and incoming players next year, I don't know that there will be a place for him based on what I've seen this season. Agreed. I think they wanted to see what they had but really they took maybe a little too long a look. With Carey and Walker coming on board, GD is kind of an afterthought going forward. He's neither pure PG nor SG and Pickett, Carey, and Walker are all potentially both.
Carey and Walker certainly have the athleticism and height to be great defenders in this league but I'm not yet sure if they have the defensive motor/pride that Smithen takes on that end of the floor. My new, latest pondering, is hoping that they can actually maintain this new found defensive intensity post Smithen and Degnan.
I hope that Seymour isn't needed as much next year and that, if we need a specialist shooter, maybe that guy is just Richard who does, not much, but a bit more other things. If Walker isn't ready to go immediately, defense could be a concern next year as you just know that Richard and Seymour's roles would expand as a result. We'd then need someone like Sutherland to make a big defensive impact...which is a risk as he's a bit of a wild card in my eyes.
Just something to watch for. My money is on Walker, though. I think he's kind of a Prosper Karangwa clone.
My son is baaaack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And comparing his brother to an incoming recruit!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 10:32:44 GMT -5
Agreed. I think they wanted to see what they had but really they took maybe a little too long a look. With Carey and Walker coming on board, GD is kind of an afterthought going forward. He's neither pure PG nor SG and Pickett, Carey, and Walker are all potentially both.
Carey and Walker certainly have the athleticism and height to be great defenders in this league but I'm not yet sure if they have the defensive motor/pride that Smithen takes on that end of the floor. My new, latest pondering, is hoping that they can actually maintain this new found defensive intensity post Smithen and Degnan.
I hope that Seymour isn't needed as much next year and that, if we need a specialist shooter, maybe that guy is just Richard who does, not much, but a bit more other things. If Walker isn't ready to go immediately, defense could be a concern next year as you just know that Richard and Seymour's roles would expand as a result. We'd then need someone like Sutherland to make a big defensive impact...which is a risk as he's a bit of a wild card in my eyes.
Just something to watch for. My money is on Walker, though. I think he's kind of a Prosper Karangwa clone.
My son is baaaack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And comparing his brother to an incoming recruit! Ha. I actually did have a class with him once I believe. So, yeah, definitely like brothers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 10:34:35 GMT -5
Agreed. I think they wanted to see what they had but really they took maybe a little too long a look. With Carey and Walker coming on board, GD is kind of an afterthought going forward. He's neither pure PG nor SG and Pickett, Carey, and Walker are all potentially both.
Carey and Walker certainly have the athleticism and height to be great defenders in this league but I'm not yet sure if they have the defensive motor/pride that Smithen takes on that end of the floor. My new, latest pondering, is hoping that they can actually maintain this new found defensive intensity post Smithen and Degnan.
I hope that Seymour isn't needed as much next year and that, if we need a specialist shooter, maybe that guy is just Richard who does, not much, but a bit more other things. If Walker isn't ready to go immediately, defense could be a concern next year as you just know that Richard and Seymour's roles would expand as a result. We'd then need someone like Sutherland to make a big defensive impact...which is a risk as he's a bit of a wild card in my eyes.
Just something to watch for. My money is on Walker, though. I think he's kind of a Prosper Karangwa clone.
My son is baaaack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And comparing his brother to an incoming recruit! How’s that song go? “We are family!”
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Feb 11, 2019 10:39:30 GMT -5
Agreed. I think they wanted to see what they had but really they took maybe a little too long a look. With Carey and Walker coming on board, GD is kind of an afterthought going forward. He's neither pure PG nor SG and Pickett, Carey, and Walker are all potentially both.
Carey and Walker certainly have the athleticism and height to be great defenders in this league but I'm not yet sure if they have the defensive motor/pride that Smithen takes on that end of the floor. My new, latest pondering, is hoping that they can actually maintain this new found defensive intensity post Smithen and Degnan.
I hope that Seymour isn't needed as much next year and that, if we need a specialist shooter, maybe that guy is just Richard who does, not much, but a bit more other things. If Walker isn't ready to go immediately, defense could be a concern next year as you just know that Richard and Seymour's roles would expand as a result. We'd then need someone like Sutherland to make a big defensive impact...which is a risk as he's a bit of a wild card in my eyes.
Just something to watch for. My money is on Walker, though. I think he's kind of a Prosper Karangwa clone.
My son is baaaack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And comparing his brother to an incoming recruit! I have more faith in KK’s Prosper comparison than the Manhattan fan who confused me with PK.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Feb 11, 2019 10:42:16 GMT -5
Welcome back KK.
I just feel all the love Siena, coaches & players are getting in this board.
There’s various opinions/reasons given for the piling up wins. They may be all correct, none or partial. I don’t care because it’s great/fun to be a Siena fan again.
Go Saints!!!
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Post by SaintsFan on Feb 11, 2019 10:47:01 GMT -5
Big problem for Darwiche is that his skill set does not lend itself to this roster and fellow team deficiencies. As someone noted above... you cant have Darwiche, Seymour, Degnan, Ratliff, Fisher, Tchougang, Huerter on the floor at the same time without having someone who can create for themselves. As our speed and athleticism increase throughout the team there could be a role for someone like Darwiche and his skill set. The team struggles when every player on the floor is one dimensional... especially when limited in speed/athleticism. That being said... Darwiche has a LOT to work on between now and next year. Hopefully he chooses to put that work in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 10:50:45 GMT -5
I think goldsaint already alluded to a lot of Walker's skillset and I think we're mostly in agreement.
If you look at what Prosper gave back in the day he was a guy who got to the FT line a lot, rebounded, defended and created for others.
However, what Prosper wasn't was an overly great jump shooter. I think Prosper because I see a similar super athletic, thin playmaker who will attack and go get the ball. Because Prosper got to the FT line so much, he also had a good PPS.
This is what I'm hoping Walker will do for us...much in the same as what I'm hoping Smithen will continue to provide the rest of this year. Only I see Walker has hopefully having more aggressiveness and a potentially higher volume upside than Smithen.
If Walker is that guy for us, Siena will be in pretty good shape.
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