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Post by Tony on Jun 22, 2018 10:41:55 GMT -5
Please the college basketball season is much more than 3 games in March-- Siena was playing on its home floor( a huge advantage) They pulled off a big upset with a red hot Nico-- do you think they win that game at Monmouth? Then they lost to Iona- if you couldn't tell Iona and Monmouth had superior talent and depth than Siena I can't help you. And BTW that was as good as it got under Jimmy. a 4th place MAAC finish and losing regular season. Team had a losing regular season so spare me the talent deal- if they were that talented they would have won more games. Jimmy covered up his overall lack of team athleticism with a clutching grabbing fouling system- he would then cry like hell to refs to 'even" up the fouls. My seats most of the time were on the floor right under the basket, when you are that close pretty easy to see when other team is more athletic
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$cott
Assistant Coach
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Post by $cott on Jun 22, 2018 10:43:16 GMT -5
Please you guys always overestimate Siena's talent- Bisping made 1st team all MAAC once - no Jimmy recruit made 1st team all MAAC- and forget the 4 one thousand point scorers- thats B S too-- all 4 played 30 min a game from freshmen season on. While the 4 of them were decent players none of them were elite MAAC players, and after those 4 or 5 the talent fell off face of the earth - John Wooden could have come back from grave and while he would have won more still probably wouldnt have won MAAC Championship. Take off your green and gold glasses--- Siena's talent has been down horribly. It wasn't all Jimmy's coaching, the talent level was always lower level MAAC talent--in good year ( if you call 4th place good year- it was mid pack talent with no depth As for getting Girard in here for a visit-- dont hold your breath, Siena is a bad program now-- JC is in progress of changing that and maybe someday Siena will get a star to stay home, Girard has his choice of any program in country Agree to strongly disagree. There was next to nothing wrong with the Wright/Bisping/JO trio. And Lavon was solid in his role. It's the surrounding pieces and the constant mismanagement of those pieces that held them back. That team could have won 25+ games and gone to the tourney at least once if Jimmy didn't have his head up his ass. I take either of those guys on my team before OD Anosike and he's a pro too and led the nation in rebounding. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this but I still think Lavon had the most raw talent of them all. Would have loved to have seen him play under a coach that could have properly motivated him and unleashed all that potential.
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Post by Tony on Jun 22, 2018 10:46:47 GMT -5
Agree to strongly disagree. There was next to nothing wrong with the Wright/Bisping/JO trio. And Lavon was solid in his role. It's the surrounding pieces and the constant mismanagement of those pieces that held them back. That team could have won 25+ games and gone to the tourney at least once if Jimmy didn't have his head up his ass. I take either of those guys on my team before OD Anosike and he's a pro too and led the nation in rebounding. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this but I still think Lavon had the most raw talent of them all. Would have loved to have seen him play under a coach that could have properly motivated him and unleashed all that potential. I dont disagree with that- Lavon played out of position at the 3, he would have been much better at the 4 IMHO, Lavon struggled guarding quicker 3's in the MAAC - he also needed a coach to coach him into using his right hand more- Lavon had his moments but he was foul prone, solid player but nowhere near an elite MAAC level player
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 10:48:00 GMT -5
Please the college basketball season is much more than 3 games in March-- Siena was playing on its home floor( a huge advantage) They pulled off a big upset with a red hot Nico-- do you think they win that game at Monmouth? Then they lost to Iona- if you couldn't tell Iona and Monmouth had superior talent and depth than Siena I can't help you. And BTW that was as good as it got under Jimmy. a 4th place MAAC finish and losing regular season. Team had a losing regular season so spare me the talent deal- if they were that talented they would have won more games. Jimmy covered up his overall lack of team athleticism with a clutching grabbing fouling system- he would then cry like hell to refs to 'even" up the fouls. My seats most of the time were on the floor right under the basket, when you are that close pretty easy to see when other team is more athletic Pure athleticism isn't everything. Bisping and JO were elite big men for the MAAC. And Wright was a solid all-around PG. It was the schemes, rotations, and failure to surround them with a adequate help or a cohesive plan that held them back. Jimmy coached with emotion and idiocy.
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Post by Tony on Jun 22, 2018 11:00:49 GMT -5
I agree pure athleticism isnt everything- but you are kidding yourself if you dont think its big in D1.Bisping was below average athletically - on a strong team you could hide his lack of athleticism- since Siena was one of least athletic teams in MAAC - that was not possible. We can agree to disagree on talent level since it's a moot point now( thank God!!)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 11:20:02 GMT -5
I agree pure athleticism isnt everything- but you are kidding yourself if you dont think its big in D1.Bisping was below average athletically - on a strong team you could hide his lack of athleticism- since Siena was one of least athletic teams in MAAC - that was not possible. We can agree to disagree on talent level since it's a moot point now( thank God!!) Big men were athletic enough for big men. Siena's issue was athleticism and ballhandling on the wings mostly. Clareth helped with it when his head was on straight but otherwise we struggled. Lavon was a good player but he was a tweener and not athletic enough for the 3. If Lavon had primarily backed up the bigs as a 4 man, and Jimmy had recruited more big versatile PGs like JC then it could have been a different story. Clareth could have been the 3 man instead of the 2 man...and Siena could have had another primary ballhandler. Jimmy made poor roster decision after poor roster decision. Lazy recruiting, poor rotations, poor schemes, and poor roster management. If anything, it was the inate talent of these guys that kept the team mediocre...instead of bad.
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Quackman
Team Captain
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Post by Quackman on Jun 22, 2018 12:40:13 GMT -5
Interesting argument. I've said it before, Wright and Bisping deserve mention among all time great Saints.
After Bennerman, Brown and Moore, I can't think of a point guard that had a better career than Wright. I am not sure who would be 5th, Freeney or Matt Brady?
Bisping's position is a little harder to define. In the last 25 years, Franklin was obviously better. Rossiter and Haddix were also demonstrably better but might be Centers rather than PF's. Bisping was on par with OD. Justin Miller, James Clinton and Cantamessage/Osinski were all a step behind. I dont really remember Lee Matthews but i guess he would be in the conversation as well.
I was never as big a fan of JO's but you could make the argument that he was as good as a Center as the Saints have had outside of Rossiter, Haddix and OD.
Long is an interesting case, not the greatest stats but he did all the little things that teams need. He wasn't great at any one thing but pretty good at everything.
The thing about the 4 that graduated in 2017 is that if you look at them individually, they should have been better they than were as a group. And that is certainly on the coach.
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skipc
Sophomore
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Post by skipc on Jun 23, 2018 8:32:52 GMT -5
Please you guys always overestimate Siena's talent- Bisping made 1st team all MAAC once - no Jimmy recruit made 1st team all MAAC- and forget the 4 one thousand point scorers- thats B S too-- all 4 played 30 min a game from freshmen season on. While the 4 of them were decent players none of them were elite MAAC players, and after those 4 or 5 the talent fell off face of the earth - John Wooden could have come back from grave and while he would have won more still probably wouldnt have won MAAC Championship. Take off your green and gold glasses--- Siena's talent has been down horribly. It wasn't all Jimmy's coaching, the talent level was always lower level MAAC talent--in good year ( if you call 4th place good year- it was mid pack talent with no depth As for getting Girard in here for a visit-- dont hold your breath, Siena is a bad program now-- JC is in progress of changing that and maybe someday Siena will get a star to stay home, Girard has his choice of any program in country Agree to strongly disagree. There was next to nothing wrong with the Wright/Bisping/JO trio. And Lavon was solid in his role. It's the surrounding pieces and the constant mismanagement of those pieces that held them back. That team could have won 25+ games and gone to the tourney at least once if Jimmy didn't have his head up his ass. I take either of those guys on my team before OD Anosike and he's a pro too and led the nation in rebounding. It was truly sad to see the core of talent JO, Bisping,Lavon,Marquis and for one year Nico we had and see how little the coaching staff was able to do with that talent. Total inability to coach up the big guys- identify their weaknesses(Lavon- no right hand and JO-inability to finish in the paint) and improve upon them over their careers , the inability of the coaching staff to get the petty bickering/back stabbing/jealousy between certain team mates resolved and the inability of the coaching staff to put together a better offensive and defensive scheme to utilize the talent we had was a much larger factor in our lack of success than the lack of talent as compared to the rest of the MAAC. As a matter of fact, I would argue we had the most talented starting five Lavon,Marquis and JO’s senior year than any other MAAC team including Monmouth and Iona. Sadly, they were held back by the inability to pull together as a team and the inability of the coaches to maximize that talent.
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bigsaintg
Associate Head Coach
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Post by bigsaintg on Jun 23, 2018 9:46:28 GMT -5
Interesting argument. I've said it before, Wright and Bisping deserve mention among all time great Saints. After Bennerman, Brown and Moore, I can't think of a point guard that had a better career than Wright. I am not sure who would be 5th, Freeney or Matt Brady? Bisping's position is a little harder to define. In the last 25 years, Franklin was obviously better. Rossiter and Haddix were also demonstrably better but might be Centers rather than PF's. Bisping was on par with OD. Justin Miller, James Clinton and Cantamessage/Osinski were all a step behind. I dont really remember Lee Matthews but i guess he would be in the conversation as well. Freddie Daniels I was never as big a fan of JO's but you could make the argument that he was as good as a Center as the Saints have had outside of Rossiter, Haddix and OD. Long is an interesting case, not the greatest stats but he did all the little things that teams need. He wasn't great at any one thing but pretty good at everything. The thing about the 4 that graduated in 2017 is that if you look at them individually, they should have been better they than were as a group. And that is certainly on the coach. Freddie Daniels and mike catino
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mjs72
Junior
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Post by mjs72 on Jun 23, 2018 11:32:57 GMT -5
Agree with BSG on them. Also Din Cahill when we were D2. What he did to Cansius that game was spectacular.
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legacy
Sophomore
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Post by legacy on Jun 23, 2018 11:51:31 GMT -5
Freddie Daniels was unbelievably under used and under valued. I still remember Kirsch screaming at him to not shoot. Such a talent and took a lot of abuse. My cheer partner was his cousin Robbie:) FYI we met his son, Tyler at the Gulf Coast game -he's a Freddie clone and an awesome kid -attending Gulf Coast-pre-med. Came to the Siena section after the game looking for someone who might have known his dad-lol
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Post by Tony on Jun 23, 2018 12:10:03 GMT -5
I think we have the hardest working staff in all of college basketball- the amount of kids visiting Siena is staggering
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Post by heftylefty on Jun 23, 2018 16:05:44 GMT -5
I think we have the hardest working staff in all of college basketball- the amount of kids visiting Siena is staggering Its like night and day when comparing this to the last regime. It makes the off-season fun to follow again.
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