CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Jan 15, 2018 14:48:36 GMT -5
Can you please explain why? because he is a marist fan. Oh, that’s right I forgot. Thanks. That’s funny.
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siena95
Sophomore
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Post by siena95 on Jan 15, 2018 14:57:38 GMT -5
I personally can't see many things in the ledger on the "pro" side of keeping him, outside of the money he is owed..... which is not really a "pro" it is just the reality of the situation.
-He is a MAAC lifer, has one NCAA trip in 15 years (i don't give a shit if Loyola was a CYO program before he got there) -recruiting has been abysmal and add in the fact 3/4 of these kids leave anyway, it makes for a hard team to follow, a hard team to get to know, i mean they have no seniors this year and as it sits, 3 will graduate next year, but two will be guys who came in as transfers, hardly have played and will basically get 4 years at Siena for 3 years of minimal contributions. And the writing is on the walls for the sophomore class to lose at least one if not two players.... it's a joke - the drama that has floated over this program for the 5 years and specifically the last two have been unacceptable on any level.... no need to rehash - the brand of basketball is bad. It seems like every time they have it figured out some, they collectively take two steps back. - season tickets are down, corporate sponsors are dwindling...that is a nosedive trend that will be hard to pull up from if it continues. The world is a bit different than when siena made a splash nearly 30 years ago, creating fan support that drove the program to the TUC. - On the "pro" side of it, my man can house an entire family bag of doritoes on a bus trip, so you gotta respect that!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 15:02:49 GMT -5
The main positives I can see are that, if he is putting all this time into recruiting, and succeeds with some solid players...keeping him might return Siena back to respectibility faster than letting him go and risking a major player and recruiting fallout in the late period.
I'm always afraid of a post-Joe Mihalich situation where everyone decent transfers and it's too late in the year to get any real talent....causing a severe talent disaster that takes 2 or 3 years to remedy...where by then recruits are already soured on a coach for losing...and the cycle repeats.
With that said, there are guys like Dunleavy who can work around that by recruiting JUCOs and transfers etc.
However, Siena has no master's programs and often won't admit JUCOs so the risk of utter decimation of the program is more real at Siena than a Quinny.
But you never know. Sometimes you get that coach who is just worth it and he turns things around fast.
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siena77
Sophomore
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Post by siena77 on Jan 15, 2018 15:36:47 GMT -5
The main positives I can see are that, if he is putting all this time into recruiting, and succeeds with some solid players...keeping him might return Siena back to respectibility faster than letting him go and risking a major player and recruiting fallout in the late period. I'm always afraid of a post-Joe Mihalich situation where everyone decent transfers and it's too late in the year to get any real talent....causing a severe talent disaster that takes 2 or 3 years to remedy...where by then recruits are already soured on a coach for losing...and the cycle repeats. With that said, there are guys like Dunleavy who can work around that by recruiting JUCOs and transfers etc. However, Siena has no master's programs and often won't admit JUCOs so the risk of utter decimation of the program is more real at Siena than a Quinny. But you never know. Sometimes you get that coach who is just worth it and he turns things around fast. One of the best coaching jobs I've ever seen was Fran's 1st year when he picked up the pieces and patched together a winning season with very little left from the Lanier Error. (John Graney: "I don't see how these guys will win a game this year.") It can be done, but the right coaching/leadership is needed.
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Post by goldsaint17 on Jan 15, 2018 15:39:36 GMT -5
The main positives I can see are that, if he is putting all this time into recruiting, and succeeds with some solid players...keeping him might return Siena back to respectibility faster than letting him go and risking a major player and recruiting fallout in the late period. I'm always afraid of a post-Joe Mihalich situation where everyone decent transfers and it's too late in the year to get any real talent....causing a severe talent disaster that takes 2 or 3 years to remedy...where by then recruits are already soured on a coach for losing...and the cycle repeats. With that said, there are guys like Dunleavy who can work around that by recruiting JUCOs and transfers etc. However, Siena has no master's programs and often won't admit JUCOs so the risk of utter decimation of the program is more real at Siena than a Quinny. But you never know. Sometimes you get that coach who is just worth it and he turns things around fast. Obviously that’s always possible, but a good coach will recruit the talent either this year or in their first full class. Niagara’s issue was that Casey’s first several classes were full of non-D1 players. Dunleavy was left with several open scholarships and took 3 freshmen, 2 sit out transfers, and a grad kid. We can do 2 of those 3. And of those 3 freshmen, one is redshirting and 2 are playing excellent basketball right away. If everyone leaves you have to play the long game and not throw scholarships around like candy. Take guys who will be good players and hold the extra 2-3 scholarships if you have to and get to work guns blazing on the recruiting trail for the following year. Trust that the admin will give you time and hope that the fans will understand that 1 year is a rebuild. Other than Penn, Horn, Oduro, and maybe Shivers I think everyone is pretty replaceable.
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siena77
Sophomore
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Post by siena77 on Jan 15, 2018 15:41:14 GMT -5
People keep quoting that the Saints Alive and boosters are at an all time high... do we know the reason behind it though? Some use it as a crutch that everything is fine with the program, otherwise WHY would they have more money?? Without knowing the who or why of those donations, some simple explanations could be: - deceased member(s) of the Siena family have willed money/stocks/land to the program. All it takes is one sizeable donation from a well to do deceased friend of the program to spike "annual" giving - the stock market has been steadily rising for while.. some folks may have investments set up where Saints Alive get the net gains... again, one or two more affluent alum doing this would cause a spike the last few years. I've seen Papi say that several times. I'd like to see proof that Saints Alive and other support groups are at an all-time high.
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hankla
Team Captain
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Post by hankla on Jan 15, 2018 16:28:12 GMT -5
When a new way to flog a supine equine is needed one should look to the posters in this thread. The nabobs of negativity.
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siena77
Sophomore
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Post by siena77 on Jan 15, 2018 16:40:53 GMT -5
When a new way to flog a supine equine is needed one should look to the posters in this thread. The nabobs of negativity. Spiro Agnew lives! Do you have any objective arguments for continuing the current path with JP?
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siena95
Sophomore
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Post by siena95 on Jan 15, 2018 16:42:32 GMT -5
When a new way to flog a supine equine is needed one should look to the posters in this thread. The nabobs of negativity. Ok, Joe Postive... answer the actual question of this post then.... what are the arguments to keep Patsos? I'll hang up and listen.......
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CellarRat
Assistant Coach
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Post by CellarRat on Jan 15, 2018 16:43:24 GMT -5
When a new way to flog a supine equine is needed one should look to the posters in this thread. The nabobs of negativity. A bit sanctimonious, you think?
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gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Jan 15, 2018 16:46:35 GMT -5
People keep quoting that the Saints Alive and boosters are at an all time high... do we know the reason behind it though? Some use it as a crutch that everything is fine with the program, otherwise WHY would they have more money?? Without knowing the who or why of those donations, some simple explanations could be: - deceased member(s) of the Siena family have willed money/stocks/land to the program. All it takes is one sizeable donation from a well to do deceased friend of the program to spike "annual" giving - the stock market has been steadily rising for while.. some folks may have investments set up where Saints Alive get the net gains... again, one or two more affluent alum doing this would cause a spike the last few years. I've seen Papi say that several times. I'd like to see proof that Saints Alive and other support groups are at an all-time high. www.sienasaints.com/sports/saints-alive/spec-rel/081017aaa.html
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Post by MTS on Jan 15, 2018 17:13:08 GMT -5
The main positives I can see are that, if he is putting all this time into recruiting, and succeeds with some solid players...keeping him might return Siena back to respectibility faster than letting him go and risking a major player and recruiting fallout in the late period. I'm always afraid of a post-Joe Mihalich situation where everyone decent transfers and it's too late in the year to get any real talent....causing a severe talent disaster that takes 2 or 3 years to remedy...where by then recruits are already soured on a coach for losing...and the cycle repeats. With that said, there are guys like Dunleavy who can work around that by recruiting JUCOs and transfers etc. However, Siena has no master's programs and often won't admit JUCOs so the risk of utter decimation of the program is more real at Siena than a Quinny. But you never know. Sometimes you get that coach who is just worth it and he turns things around fast. Obviously that’s always possible, but a good coach will recruit the talent either this year or in their first full class. Niagara’s issue was that Casey’s first several classes were full of non-D1 players. Dunleavy was left with several open scholarships and took 3 freshmen, 2 sit out transfers, and a grad kid. We can do 2 of those 3. And of those 3 freshmen, one is redshirting and 2 are playing excellent basketball right away. If everyone leaves you have to play the long game and not throw scholarships around like candy. Take guys who will be good players and hold the extra 2-3 scholarships if you have to and get to work guns blazing on the recruiting trail for the following year. Trust that the admin will give you time and hope that the fans will understand that 1 year is a rebuild. Other than Penn, Horn, Oduro, and maybe Shivers I think everyone is pretty replaceable. I disagree with KK... keeping Patsos just because you could get a worse coach is the wrong way to look at it. He is what he is...and it's only getting worse. You add in the sideshow and drama and it's time to pull the plug on this "experiment". There's NOBODY on this roster irreplaceable. Some nice parts but nobody you say darn I hate to lose that guy, he's a potential pro. Remember Fran lost McClinton an all-ACC guy, Al Fisher MAC POY, Kojo after one year and Haddix got hurt. If players leave, they leave. The next guy gets a grace period no question. I first want to see the recruiting return to a top level. Look at Quinnipiac they lost Dixon and Kiss but still made the coaching change and their a better team. Dunleavy looks like a really good coach. I'm not saying Siena has to pay what he's making but you can find a good up and coming coach without breaking the bank.
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Post by MTS on Jan 15, 2018 17:15:24 GMT -5
I'm glad donations are doing very well...no excuses not to write the check and move on. And who's to say some of the bigger donors aren't informing Siena they're walking away unless changes are made. Papi thinks this is good for his keep Patsos rant but I think it's just the opposite.
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Papi
Assistant Coach
Misinformation Troll
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Post by Papi on Jan 15, 2018 17:23:12 GMT -5
I'm glad donations are doing very well...no excuses not to write the check and move on. And who's to say some of the bigger donors aren't informing Siena they're walking away unless changes are made. Papi thinks this is good for his keep Patsos rant but I think it's just the opposite. Not quite MTS. Just the opposite of what you think.
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hankla
Team Captain
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Post by hankla on Jan 15, 2018 17:24:58 GMT -5
When a new way to flog a supine equine is needed one should look to the posters in this thread. The nabobs of negativity. A bit sanctimonious, you think? No where as sanctimonious as many on here who overestimate the power of their statements .Take MTS for example.
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