musicman
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Post by musicman on Dec 7, 2016 17:32:55 GMT -5
You guys are acting like this was a one time incident. This is at least five times Lavon has been late and he was still trying to make up an excuse for it. At this point it is call him out publicly or kick him off the team. Suspensions and benching have done nothing to solve the problem. Making Lavon own up to his mistakes is a good step. Very well said !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 18:00:38 GMT -5
You guys are acting like this was a one time incident. This is at least five times Lavon has been late and he was still trying to make up an excuse for it. At this point it is call him out publicly or kick him off the team. Suspensions and benching have done nothing to solve the problem. Making Lavon own up to his mistakes is a good step. Your post supports my statement that the corrective actions have NOT been effective ... that's on the staff - LL is a free spirit who obviously puts more stock into what his headphones are doing for him than what his responsibilities dictate. Great player when he wants to be. Have no idea how his behavior translates to the rest of the team but my guess is it isn't positive. Shivers, by virtue of his being LL's roommate, is likely more guilty by association than by action but I'll leave others to sniff that out. That kid is a bulldog and we need him on the floor and not in LL's dog house annex. Hopefully, someone on the staff can see through the fuzz and keep him on the "maybe" playing list. I don't think too many freshmen are looked on to corral a senior star.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Dec 7, 2016 19:10:00 GMT -5
Or, if the program is not committed to winning anymore, as jp and its followers have us believe, then it is time to close up the tuc and head back to the arc. Build a state of the art communication system to get the games out to the public, but regenerate the student fan base by having the games on campus again. Maybe in a decade or two consider growing the program again if the interest is warranted.
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th24
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Post by th24 on Dec 7, 2016 20:53:29 GMT -5
Another overreaction! 🙄
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Post by MTS on Dec 7, 2016 21:01:21 GMT -5
Or, if the program is not committed to winning anymore, as jp and its followers have us believe, then it is time to close up the tuc and head back to the arc. Build a state of the art communication system to get the games out to the public, but regenerate the student fan base by having the games on campus again. Maybe in a decade or two consider growing the program again if the interest is warranted. It's not that I don't think they are committed to winning rather just continuing to make poor decisions. They want to make money and unless you're winning big that won't happen. JP has made too many excuses. Siena will not drop their pants like an Iona and they don't have to. They've won doing it the right way for the most part. That doesn't mean you can't take a couple of academic risks just not a whole team of JUCOs.
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Post by hockeyguy on Dec 7, 2016 21:44:58 GMT -5
You guys are acting like this was a one time incident. This is at least five times Lavon has been late and he was still trying to make up an excuse for it. At this point it is call him out publicly or kick him off the team. Suspensions and benching have done nothing to solve the problem. Making Lavon own up to his mistakes is a good step. Your post supports my statement that the corrective actions have NOT been effective ... that's on the staff - LL is a free spirit who obviously puts more stock into what his headphones are doing for him than what his responsibilities dictate. Great player when he wants to be. Have no idea how his behavior translates to the rest of the team but my guess is it isn't positive. Shivers, by virtue of his being LL's roommate, is likely more guilty by association than by action but I'll leave others to sniff that out. That kid is a bulldog and we need him on the floor and not in LL's dog house annex. Hopefully, someone on the staff can see through the fuzz and keep him on the "maybe" playing list. I don't think too many freshmen are looked on to corral a senior star. "Lavon is a free spirit" pretty much why too many of his generation can't find a job. I am reminded of an interview Ronald Moore had with the reporter from the St. Petersburg Times who fell in love with the Saints in Tampa in 2008, and they showed up, to a man, in a suit and tie. No "hoodies", no pants falling off their butts, no earphones on their heads when they entered the hotel, just polite, articulate, RESPECTFUL, and as RM said.. "Coach told us this is a business trip, we are EXPECTED to act like it". Guess those winners didn't have too many "free spirits". BTW, if a 21 y/o free spirit showed late for 2 business meetings in a year while working for me, he would be "a former employee".
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siena77
Sophomore
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Post by siena77 on Dec 7, 2016 22:01:07 GMT -5
Your post supports my statement that the corrective actions have NOT been effective ... that's on the staff - LL is a free spirit who obviously puts more stock into what his headphones are doing for him than what his responsibilities dictate. Great player when he wants to be. Have no idea how his behavior translates to the rest of the team but my guess is it isn't positive. Shivers, by virtue of his being LL's roommate, is likely more guilty by association than by action but I'll leave others to sniff that out. That kid is a bulldog and we need him on the floor and not in LL's dog house annex. Hopefully, someone on the staff can see through the fuzz and keep him on the "maybe" playing list. I don't think too many freshmen are looked on to corral a senior star. "Lavon is a free spirit" pretty much why too many of his generation can't find a job. I am reminded of an interview Ronald Moore had with the reporter from the St. Petersburg Times who fell in love with the Saints in Tampa in 2008, and they showed up, to a man, in a suit and tie. No "hoodies", no pants falling off their butts, no earphones on their heads when they entered the hotel, just polite, articulate, RESPECTFUL, and as RM said.. "Coach told us this is a business trip, we are EXPECTED to act like it". Guess those winners didn't have too many "free spirits". BTW, if a 21 y/o free spirit showed late for 2 business meetings in a year while working for me, he would be "a former employee". It's not "his generation"--it's about the coach setting standards and showing the way with his own behavior. The Ronald Moore example is a good one. Coupled with the way they conducted themselves with their grooming was the reminder by his coach that the players shouldn't overcelebrate after a win in the NCAA tournament as an underdog--again, act as though you expected to win.
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Post by hockeyguy on Dec 7, 2016 22:24:21 GMT -5
"Lavon is a free spirit" pretty much why too many of his generation can't find a job. I am reminded of an interview Ronald Moore had with the reporter from the St. Petersburg Times who fell in love with the Saints in Tampa in 2008, and they showed up, to a man, in a suit and tie. No "hoodies", no pants falling off their butts, no earphones on their heads when they entered the hotel, just polite, articulate, RESPECTFUL, and as RM said.. "Coach told us this is a business trip, we are EXPECTED to act like it". Guess those winners didn't have too many "free spirits". BTW, if a 21 y/o free spirit showed late for 2 business meetings in a year while working for me, he would be "a former employee". It's not "his generation"--it's about the coach setting standards and showing the way with his own behavior. The Ronald Moore example is a good one. Coupled with the way they conducted themselves with their grooming was the reminder by his coach that the players shouldn't overcelebrate after a win in the NCAA tournament as an underdog--again, act as though you expected to win. Siena 77, It is very much about "his generation". As the parent of two very successful children only about 10 years older than the team, they shake their heads as much as I do. There are no coaches out there "setting standards and showing the way" for the vast majority of college graduates and never have been. Don't scapegoat the coach. This is squarely on the individuals.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Dec 7, 2016 22:29:27 GMT -5
Or, if the program is not committed to winning anymore, as jp and its followers have us believe, then it is time to close up the tuc and head back to the arc. Build a state of the art communication system to get the games out to the public, but regenerate the student fan base by having the games on campus again. Maybe in a decade or two consider growing the program again if the interest is warranted. It's not that I don't think they are committed to winning rather just continuing to make poor decisions. They want to make money and unless you're winning big that won't happen. JP has made too many excuses. Siena will not drop their pants like an Iona and they don't have to. They've won doing it the right way for the most part. That doesn't mean you can't take a couple of academic risks just not a whole team of JUCOs. Finally someone who is voicing the same opinion as I. Buck stops at the top, no reason not to take JUCO or transfers, with what Siena has to offer one can be selective. JP is a lousy game coach, recruiting perhaps his hands are tied somewhat. Your right concerning the GSR for some of the MAAC schools. Those 2 schools that have been on top IC, over last 11 years 63, Manhattan, same time frame 74, Monmouth same time frame 74. For those that say the MAAC has policies and rules LMAO when they don't enforce them. Wondering how Monmouth was even brought into the league. BTW the flagship if the SUNY system GSR over 11 year 74. Just to clarify 11 years as an average. GSR = Graduating Success Rate, put out by NCAA. BTW did all the MAAC schools.
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Post by hooligan on Dec 8, 2016 6:31:03 GMT -5
What shocked me is that patsos has allowed Lavon to room with a freshman. I understand the concept of a senior mentoring the young, but Lavon has proven he can't get his own shit together. The mentoring roles should go to the people who clearly have shown they give a shit about the team, school, community and winning.
I'm not trying to lay the blame of the rough start at Lavons feet. It's just another example of jimmy mismanaged style. I will say if I was jimmy and I had a senior who had 5 infractions (stated earlier in this post) and I saw a freshman following him I would let the senior know he's in the batters box with two strikes and the strike zone just got a whole lot wider.
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sky
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Post by sky on Dec 8, 2016 6:31:41 GMT -5
Your post supports my statement that the corrective actions have NOT been effective ... that's on the staff - LL is a free spirit who obviously puts more stock into what his headphones are doing for him than what his responsibilities dictate. Great player when he wants to be. Have no idea how his behavior translates to the rest of the team but my guess is it isn't positive. Shivers, by virtue of his being LL's roommate, is likely more guilty by association than by action but I'll leave others to sniff that out. That kid is a bulldog and we need him on the floor and not in LL's dog house annex. Hopefully, someone on the staff can see through the fuzz and keep him on the "maybe" playing list. I don't think too many freshmen are looked on to corral a senior star. "Lavon is a free spirit" pretty much why too many of his generation can't find a job. I am reminded of an interview Ronald Moore had with the reporter from the St. Petersburg Times who fell in love with the Saints in Tampa in 2008, and they showed up, to a man, in a suit and tie. No "hoodies", no pants falling off their butts, no earphones on their heads when they entered the hotel, just polite, articulate, RESPECTFUL, and as RM said.. "Coach told us this is a business trip, we are EXPECTED to act like it". Guess those winners didn't have too many "free spirits". BTW, if a 21 y/o free spirit showed late for 2 business meetings in a year while working for me, he would be "a former employee". Hockeyguy...you touched on something I never thought of and many on this board probably never did either...Siena basket ball is a business but look at it as if it were your business and the players and the coaches...even the AD ...worked for you. The profit that is made depends on the actions of the individuals. I wonder what decisions many on this board would make if it took money out of their pocket.
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glen
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Post by glen on Dec 8, 2016 7:22:42 GMT -5
RE: who is the most responsible: coach or the players? I think it is a shared responsibility but good coaches win. Beyer was a horrible coach all around and recruited poorly. Still, Hewitt came in and won with mostly the same guys. Lanier was a horrible coach and a decent recruiter of talent. Fran came in and won with a depleted roster and built from there.
Generally, in college hoops, if there aren't W's...it is the coach. Are there circumstances? Sure, there always are, but in the end these guys are getting paid $300K+ to put a winning team on the floor and they get to pick their guys. Sorry, but I feel no sympathy other than for the players that have to trudge through practices and games all season. Oh, and I feel for us, the fans, who have to do the same and spend a mint doing it. Jimmy can't say he didn't know where the bar was. He can't say he didn't have a chance or the resources. He lost to an AE coach 3 out of 4 years. Time. To. Go.
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Post by gosaints on Dec 8, 2016 9:53:19 GMT -5
You guys are acting like this was a one time incident. This is at least five times Lavon has been late and he was still trying to make up an excuse for it. At this point it is call him out publicly or kick him off the team. Suspensions and benching have done nothing to solve the problem. Making Lavon own up to his mistakes is a good step. Not publicly. No other coach would pull at stunt like this besides Pastos. You take the kid aside, tell him he just used up his last chance and if it occurs again he's off the team and his mother goes with him.
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Post by gosaints on Dec 8, 2016 10:01:31 GMT -5
RE: who is the most responsible: coach or the players? I think it is a shared responsibility but good coaches win. Beyer was a horrible coach all around and recruited poorly. Still, Hewitt came in and won with mostly the same guys. Lanier was a horrible coach and a decent recruiter of talent. Fran came in and won with a depleted roster and built from there. Generally, in college hoops, if there aren't W's...it is the coach. Are there circumstances? Sure, there always are, but in the end these guys are getting paid $300K+ to put a winning team on the floor and they get to pick their guys. Sorry, but I feel no sympathy other than for the players that have to trudge through practices and games all season. Oh, and I feel for us, the fans, who have to do the same and spend a mint doing it. Jimmy can't say he didn't know where the bar was. He can't say he didn't have a chance or the resources. He lost to an AE coach 3 out of 4 years. Time. To. Go. Agree 100% with Glen and when he goes he needs to take D'Argenio with him. I asked D'Argenio, on the way out of SEFCU, after the UA debacle, if he was going to extend Pastos contract again and all I got was a smirk! Lets all not forget who hired Fatso. John wanted "Fat, Happy and Content" and all he got right was the "FAT" part.
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siena77
Sophomore
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Post by siena77 on Dec 8, 2016 10:03:02 GMT -5
It's not "his generation"--it's about the coach setting standards and showing the way with his own behavior. The Ronald Moore example is a good one. Coupled with the way they conducted themselves with their grooming was the reminder by his coach that the players shouldn't overcelebrate after a win in the NCAA tournament as an underdog--again, act as though you expected to win. Siena 77, It is very much about "his generation". As the parent of two very successful children only about 10 years older than the team, they shake their heads as much as I do. There are no coaches out there "setting standards and showing the way" for the vast majority of college graduates and never have been. Don't scapegoat the coach. This is squarely on the individuals. Hockey, EVERY generation looks down on the one that follows. My parents' generation said it about mine, and I'm sure yours did too. I also have kids in their 20s and 30s. There are good kids on our team, and there are irresponsible ones. Like in past generations--Marvin "Bad News" Barnes, anyone?
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