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Post by hoopsforever on Feb 2, 2016 11:08:28 GMT -5
I, too, am disappointed at last night's loss, but it is not like Siena didn't compete. We wouldn't go away, and never gave up- it was a battle to the end. Losing to Monmouth by 6 points without our top scorer and playmaker is no disgrace, and compliments to EVERY single Siena player who has stepped up in 'Quis's absence to fill a role. Let's see: UCLA lost to the Hawks by 3 points, Notre Dame lost to the Hawks by two points, Southern Cal lost to the Hawks by ten points, and Georgetown lost to the Hawks by 15 points. That is not bad company to be in. Siena competed against the Hawks.... and the next time... (and I really hope there is a next time) , we might just do more than compete. Who on this board predicted that Siena would be playing for a share of first place on February 1st with Marquis being down? Those kids have made us all proud to be fans of the Saints. The big issue now is St. Peter's, we need to put that pesky team away Friday night!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 11:16:38 GMT -5
I loved how we competed and basically stayed with them even w/o Marquis. Yes, could have had fewer silly TOs but we're learning and getting better. While I'd prefer to finish 2nd or 3rd in order to get Monmouth Monday night (assuming we both make it) I'm not too worried if we finish 4-5 and play them in the quarter finals. The key is the more games each team play the lower their 3pt shooting most likely will be. I like our 2 pt game better with out scoring bigs. Plus Marquis might be back for a few more mins by then. There are a couple reasons why we would want to meet Monmouth in the finals. Each Siena win will hopefully bring more fans to the next Siena game. 10,000 at the Monday night final would be a great advantage for our Saints. Plus, when Siena plays on the Monday night, the MAAC attendance numbers will be HUGH! Solidifying why the MAAC belongs in Albany. (I know, if we played Thursday, the MAAC numbers would be even bigger) If you believe that the 3PFG lowers with each passing game, then you would want to be a 2nd or 3rd seed. You would meet Monmouth in the third game, not the second game, if you were a 4 or 5 seed. The odds are a little better playing three games as a #2 or #3 seed to make it to the final game. I believe we are both saying, the next time we play Monmouth, the Saints come Marching home with a WIN……………..Go Saints
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hoopjunkie
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Post by hoopjunkie on Feb 2, 2016 11:20:23 GMT -5
I'm hoping Wright can give us 20 minutes a game when/if he gets back. The others have grown since he went down, but we do need him to get over the top, and win the tourney.
The people that knock Fisher crack me up. Not a peep out of them on his game vs. Marist, but when he plays bad, the hatchet comes out. He'll be fine. No doubt he needs to work on his body/quickness. As for his jumping, I seem to remember a one step catch and dunk against Marist? Our bigs never do that. He'd def at a disadvantage against quicker bigs in this league, who are usually smaller. He'll never be a "wiry shot-blocker" type either. That's what Holt is for hopefully. Last night, their 3 bigs played a total of 40 min and had 11 and 8. Okay I guess, but didn't hurt us.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Feb 2, 2016 11:32:21 GMT -5
I'm hoping Wright can give us 20 minutes a game when/if he gets back. The others have grown since he went down, but we do need him to get over the top, and win the tourney. The people that knock Fisher crack me up. Not a peep out of them on his game vs. Marist, but when he plays bad, the hatchet comes out. He'll be fine. No doubt he needs to work on his body/quickness. As for his jumping, I seem to remember a one step catch and dunk against Marist? Our bigs never do that. He'd def at a disadvantage against quicker bigs in this league, who are usually smaller. He'll never be a "wiry shot-blocker" type either. That's what Holt is for hopefully. Last night, their 3 bigs played a total of 40 min and had 11 and 8. Okay I guess, but didn't hurt us. If we had no other options and had to play Fisher in big moments, then fine, he's a freshman big in the MAAC that will develop into a nice player down the line. The Marist game was the first he showed a flash of that. The problem is, we have Imoh Silas sitting on the bench who might not be the best offensive player on the planet but would play 10 to 20 minutes for any other team in the MAAC including Monmouth. For him to be glued to the bench makes absolutely no sense.
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Post by dalydoseofhoops on Feb 2, 2016 11:34:44 GMT -5
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Feb 2, 2016 11:51:30 GMT -5
I'm hoping Wright can give us 20 minutes a game when/if he gets back. The others have grown since he went down, but we do need him to get over the top, and win the tourney. The people that knock Fisher crack me up. Not a peep out of them on his game vs. Marist, but when he plays bad, the hatchet comes out. He'll be fine. No doubt he needs to work on his body/quickness. As for his jumping, I seem to remember a one step catch and dunk against Marist? Our bigs never do that. He'd def at a disadvantage against quicker bigs in this league, who are usually smaller. He'll never be a "wiry shot-blocker" type either. That's what Holt is for hopefully. Last night, their 3 bigs played a total of 40 min and had 11 and 8. Okay I guess, but didn't hurt us. If we had no other options and had to play Fisher in big moments, then fine, he's a freshman big in the MAAC that will develop into a nice player down the line. The Marist game was the first he showed a flash of that. The problem is, we have Imoh Silas sitting on the bench who might not be the best offensive player on the planet but would play 10 to 20 minutes for any other team in the MAAC including Monmouth. For him to be glued to the bench makes absolutely no sense. Exactly. Evan vs Marist ...Marist's post players are stiffs. Worst in the MAAC. Watching the game last night it was easy to see Evan was in way over his head and Monmouths bigs aren't exactly what I would call quick. One dunk doesnt make you a leaper. Watch him he plays flat footed, hardly ever jumps to the ball, his post moves / foot work are mechanical, he fouls when his man goes to the hoop and is way too slow getting over to help on D. When he was in last night it looked like a pregame layup drill. Let Evan develop in practice. Letting Silas rot in the bench doesn't make any sense. Evan may develop into a serviceable big but for now he isnt getting it done. Sure you can play him vs the bottom feeders but in games against the top of the MAAC he's going to get exposed. Monmouths a very good team we have nothing to be down about, our guards struggled last night (with Wright we're right there). Monmouth is too good, you need to bring your A game and play mistake free. Wormley is a freshman & was tasked with stopping one of the hottest guards in country. Tall order. I think it impacted other parts of his game. Oliver shot poorly, we needed more from Lavon. I though LaRose should have gotten a few more looks. I like his game so far tough and plays smart (Kyle D type of kid). JO and Brett solid as usual. Last night we fell a bit short. Let's move on a take care of business. Hopefully we get another shot at them in the finals. Let's hope JP continues to up his recruiting. Any combo of Holt Truehart and Barnes would be nice. Going to need it Monmouth is going to be right there next year.
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Post by sienasaint3 on Feb 2, 2016 11:57:17 GMT -5
I'm afraid too many people are expecting too much from Quis when he returns. The human body starts loosing muscle after 3 days of inactivity. The strength just will not be there. His wind will take more than a week to come back. And unless you have had an orthopedic surgery you really can't comprehend the difficulties associated with it. I know he is getting the best care and training possible but that doesn't change reality. I'm sure he will give 100% but I don't think that will be anywhere near where he was before surgery. You do realize he is not just sitting around doing nothing. He is strength training, conditioning in a pool and working on his game using techniques from the training staff. I don't think any expects him back at the caliber he was playing before he was injured but its not like we are getting a guy back who has sat around for half a season eating Doritos either. Right. But in the vast history of sports. There are plenty of players who don't return 100% from injury.
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Feb 2, 2016 12:22:18 GMT -5
okay, jumping in. It was a 6 point loss. 3 baskets or 6 foul shots. The difference between winning and losing is razor thin, it went Monmouth's way last night. Cracks me up how up and down posters are.
Monmouth has a backcourt of Robinson (POY), Hornbeek (B12 transfer) and Seaborn (my pick as the best freshman in the league). Siena is countering that with 2 freshman and a Senior playing out of position. That said, and despite a huge early deficit, it was a 2 point game halfway through the 2nd half and a 2 possession game in the last minute, despite getting next to nothing from their starting backcourt.
The Saints scored 87 points. Their front court battered the Monmouth front court to the tune of 60 points and 21 rebounds.
There is much to like about the game and much to work on coming out of it.
But it doesn't change my thoughts about the Saints at all. They are a team that can play with anyone but have very little margin for error due to the limited depth in the backcourt. If Wright is able to come back, that would help a great deal.
Huge game Friday against a team that the Saints do not match up well with.
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Post by siena7127 on Feb 2, 2016 12:34:17 GMT -5
You do realize he is not just sitting around doing nothing. He is strength training, conditioning in a pool and working on his game using techniques from the training staff. I don't think any expects him back at the caliber he was playing before he was injured but its not like we are getting a guy back who has sat around for half a season eating Doritos either. Right. But in the vast history of sports. There are plenty of players who don't return 100% from injury. The vast history of sports also has plenty of players that have come back from injury at 100%... No going to argue here, I do not think he will be as good as he was before the injury as he will not have the reps required to get there but I do think he will be pretty darn close.
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sky
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Post by sky on Feb 2, 2016 13:15:12 GMT -5
Not intending to argue but orthpedic surgery is far more invasive than a sprained ankle and a torn ACL. Orthopedic surgery will stay with you the rest of your life. I do hope though that you are right.
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Feb 2, 2016 13:18:56 GMT -5
Good discussion about a tough game. A few thoughts from afar: Brett & Ryan are both good players. They are also both not up to par athletically to play top 100 level D1 basketball. We sometimes expect too much from them. I truly believe they give us all they have AND are very good reps of Siena. Not saying it can't happen but don't expect Marquis to get Siena over the hump with Monmouth this year. The Hawks have buzz sawed everyone this year and although Marquis is a player who can make a big difference it won't be this year. Not so sure? Put yourself in his shoes - 6-8 weeks after having your foot cut open & a large screw inserted, are you really ready to go all out? I know I'd give it my all for my team but that's not the same as my best. Siena needs his best to slow Robinson down. That will come next year. Game and roster management - Jimmy is doing a better job this year but still makes some head scratcher substitutions hopefully they are part of a bigger roster management plan. In my opinion JP has 2 recruiting mistakes that need to be fixed if he truly believes the Siena program is a top flight MM. Smithen, WB, Tommy Huerter and Richards will all be very nice additions. Although to do so will require some roster management, getting Truehart and Barnes is exactly what the Dr ordered for the Saints to start making real noise again on the national scene. Every year there are ups and downs. This year is no different. I for one am enjoying the season. Go Saints. I disagree with your assessment of Brett- looking at his body of work this year and two years ago when he was healthy speaks for itself. Ryan is a role player and Brett does everything for this team and I'm sure he would be a huge contributor to most D1 programs- even those further up the food chain from us. To lump them together is a head scratcher to me. I do expect us to be able to get over the hump this year. Heck, Robinson went off on us and we lost by only 6 at home, down by only 2 fairly late in the game. I don't know how Marquis will be physically when he returns but I'm very hopeful he will be able to give us more than what we have been asking our role players, who have helped us in this stretch, to provide. Throw in 4-6,000 more fans for a semi-final or final showdown at home and I like our chances. Yes we will have to play great basketball but we are capable of doing that but if you're not playing your best basketball at that time of the year you don't deserve to go to the dance anyway. I really like the moxie of this team- they fought hard right to the end last night and don't think we should underestimate their potential. The teams goal is the same as ours- if we don't get there I'm good because it's been an exciting season, something I haven't been able to say in quite a few years but I will continue to set the bar high for this team because I believe in them and I KNOW they believe in themselves. beautifully said!!
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Feb 2, 2016 13:45:33 GMT -5
I'm afraid too many people are expecting too much from Quis when he returns. The human body starts loosing muscle after 3 days of inactivity. The strength just will not be there. His wind will take more than a week to come back. And unless you have had an orthopedic surgery you really can't comprehend the difficulties associated with it. I know he is getting the best care and training possible but that doesn't change reality. I'm sure he will give 100% but I don't think that will be anywhere near where he was before surgery. You do realize he is not just sitting around doing nothing. He is strength training, conditioning in a pool and working on his game using techniques from the training staff. I don't think any expects him back at the caliber he was playing before he was injured but its not like we are getting a guy back who has sat around for half a season eating Doritos either. Exactly! I doubt there are many aware and knowledgeable Siena fans that think we will have Marquis back at 100%. Even Marquis at 70% last night would have made a tremendous difference. There are moments in some of our games that we're almost playing 4 against 5 because of a couple of bench players getting time. They aren't quite ready to be able to handle the minutes that are being given to them. Marquis will not be at his best but his ability to see the floor, distribute the ball and go to the hoop can't be replicated by our reserve guards, And no, I obviously don't mean Nico. Even 10 minutes of floor time with Marquis last night, (as he will hopefully be in 3-4 weeks), you don't think his basketball intellect on the court could have made a 6-8 point difference? I do! He will have to play within himself and not try to do too much too soon.
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siena95
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Post by siena95 on Feb 2, 2016 14:17:35 GMT -5
The biggest problem i see when we sub (it's necessary so has to be done) is we get net zero's offensively from pretty much the whole bench minus Nico.... Larose may help if he shot more or actually had a play called for him, but any time Fisher comes in, we are now down an offensive player and when you are playing with Wormley who rarely shoots, Long who seems reluctant to take over, the team becomes very lopsided scoring wise.... add in when Cam comes in and any cameo Imoh makes.... i love some of the posts (because i say the same thing!) but it's "i'd sit him, or I'd bench him"... not like we have many options waiting to come in and if you give Larose extended minutes against a speed team like Monmouth, results would be about the same as we saw w/ anyone else out there. Fisher beat up a Marist team that has no talent inside, that game showed what he could possibly do down the road, but last night was more of what he has really been all year (5 fouls and a breather for JO)
And for Wright, if he even makes it back, it won't be the wright we saw drop 20 on St. Bonnie. Yes, he will certainly help, even if at 80% giving jimmy some semblance of depth, but he won't be able to play 35 minutes and won't be as quick. They better be absolutely sure as that is a pain in the ass injury that could bleed into next season if he reinjures it.
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Post by billmurray on Feb 2, 2016 14:46:38 GMT -5
The biggest problem i see when we sub (it's necessary so has to be done) is we get net zero's offensively from pretty much the whole bench minus Nico.... Larose may help if he shot more or actually had a play called for him, but any time Fisher comes in, we are now down an offensive player and when you are playing with Wormley who rarely shoots, Long who seems reluctant to take over, the team becomes very lopsided scoring wise.... add in when Cam comes in and any cameo Imoh makes.... i love some of the posts (because i say the same thing!) but it's "i'd sit him, or I'd bench him"... not like we have many options waiting to come in and if you give Larose extended minutes against a speed team like Monmouth, results would be about the same as we saw w/ anyone else out there. Fisher beat up a Marist team that has no talent inside, that game showed what he could possibly do down the road, but last night was more of what he has really been all year (5 fouls and a breather for JO) And for Wright, if he even makes it back, it won't be the wright we saw drop 20 on St. Bonnie. Yes, he will certainly help, even if at 80% giving jimmy some semblance of depth, but he won't be able to play 35 minutes and won't be as quick. They better be absolutely sure as that is a pain in the ass injury that could bleed into next season if he reinjures it. I get that Siena lost last night, but they put up 87 against a good defensive team. Could more offensive firepower be needed off the bench, sure, but 90+% of the time if Siena scores 87 they win going away. This team played their heart out and Gottfried got 3 minutes and that was the difference? I think many are overthinking this loss. Last night Monmouth was the better team. Period. Let's move on.
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bigdog76
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Post by bigdog76 on Feb 2, 2016 15:14:57 GMT -5
Maybe when a major conference comes calling on King Rice, Robinson will go will go with him. It is scary that he will be around next year. It will be interesting how we can deal with him in the tournament with or without Marquis
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