Another massacre because of a crazy person

[CellarRat]

[/quote]

th24, I did get a little "I thought so chuckle" out of your closing where you said that "Government does little about it..." - Your "Don't Tread On Me" screams less government and keep the government out of our lives. I guess you, as most that wave that flag, quitely add the phrase "... unless or until I need its help"! [/quote]

I thought the same thing! Mental illness is a problem and always will be. The same is true for pure evil.

Before we start making the government larger MP and th24 aka rino, can you tell me how government could have prevented this tragedy?

The irony of th24's position is that he is advocating for more government while
claiming that folks are losing values associated with the traditional family. We don't need more government, we need less. The government has destroyed families by policies including but not limited to "the war against poverty". Government can not replace your parents and faith. Children need discipline, guidance, encouragement and love along with an instilled strong work ethic.

[th24]

The Govermant's job is to protect it's people! Helping the mentally ill insures that! In Ireland, they have a number of government programs to help those people! And it works!

[CellarRat]

Oct 6, 2015 8:46:48 GMT -5 th24 said:

The Govermant's job is to protect it's people! Helping the mentally ill insures that! In Ireland, they have a number of government programs to help those people! And it works!

I think we have plenty of safety nets available. Many of the mentally disabled homeless don't want help. Ireland also has socialized medicine which we now have. I don't want to be like Ireland.

[CellarRat]

Susan Blumenthal, M.D.: Writing a National Prescription to Improve the Mental Health of America's Youth
www.huffingtonpost.com/susan-blumenthal/writing-a-national-prescr_b_8251238.html

[th24]

1. This has nothing to do with socialized medicine! 

2. The U.S does not have proper safeguards in place! Or tragic cases like this would not happen! As someone who works in the public school system- I tend to believe there should be tracking system after mentally ill kids leave school - and to make they are getting support/ medical help! I have seen too many cases where kids leave the school system and they are left twisting in the wind! Now that's fault or both the family and society!  

[CellarRat]

Oregon Shooter's Mother Wrote About Guns In Online Forum
www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/10/06/oregon-shooter-mother-guns_n_8254728.html

Looks like the kid was mentally ill. Why would the mother put guns in this kid's hands? Very similar to the Adam Lanza massacres.

[Deleted]

Oct 6, 2015 21:59:55 GMT -5 th24 said:

1. This has nothing to do with socialized medicine! 

2. The U.S does not have proper safeguards in place! Or tragic cases like this would not happen! As someone who works in the public school system- I tend to believe there should be tracking system after mentally ill kids leave school - and to make they are getting support/ medical help! I have seen too many cases where kids leave the school system and they are left twisting in the wind! Now that's fault or both the family and society!  

Don't let the rat get your shorts in a knot - his comment on socialized medicine is yet another example of his assigning labels that he does not fully understand to systems/people that he has zero understanding of!

As to your latter statement, I'm not at all sure that mentally ill kids get all or any of the services they need via our school systems. It is easy to just blame families but in many of these cases the family may not have the resources to cover the uninsured cost that these services rack up. Once a "child" reaches his majority, it is almost impossible to force that child to get the help, continued or otherwise, that they need/could use. HIPA prevents families from checking with care providers. Once they reach the age of 26, any insurance coverage the parents may have had lapses for them and they may go completely uninsured. Back to rat's quip, if we had a true socialized medicine system in place, that would not be the case. Even with health insurance, coverage is limited both in scope (number of treatment sessions), length of stay in a short term treatment facility, doctors, and reimbursement dollars. Group therapy sessions, which may be fee based or free, can help by giving the mentally ill individual some counseling and support but, again, it's up to the individual to attend meetings and contact the therapist or fellow group members when a bad day or days arrives. Family can and should help if they are geographically close, have maintained good relationships (not always the case with disturbed family members), able to exert some level of influence, and, most importantly are aware of both the looming crisis and the cessation (voluntary or otherwise) of professional support.

As to the society element - a blanket indictment sounds good but our societal conditions inhibit or prevent people from stepping in and providing any modicum of the help needed. Our litigious society hinders/prevents/persuades even people close to the mentally ill person in crisis from getting involved to the point of alerting professionals that might be capable of evaluating and preventing these unspeakable acts.

Lastly, when government funds are constricted, the mental health arena is generally the first area that is targetted for budget impacts - cuts or refection of requested funding increases to cover actual growth in numbers of patients needing services.

[CellarRat]

MP you are a silly old man. You think it's time to grow up? Keep feeding your garbage to the pigs or anyone else who believes your silliness.

[Deleted]

Oct 7, 2015 16:20:20 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

MP you are a silly old man. You think it's time to grow up? Keep feeding your garbage to the pigs or anyone else who believes your silliness.

Rat, your counterpoints and arguments are so well thought out and delivered! You must have been one of the first kiddies picked in your pick-up grade school debates! ?

[CellarRat]

Oct 7, 2015 16:30:47 GMT -5 @misspractice said:

Oct 7, 2015 16:20:20 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

MP you are a silly old man. You think it's time to grow up? Keep feeding your garbage to the pigs or anyone else who believes your silliness.

Rat, your counterpoints and arguments are so well thought out and delivered! You must have been one of the first kiddies picked in your pick-up grade school debates! ?

That's right MP keep it coming, your liberal hogwash is quite entertaining. Your understanding of the constitution was my end with you. I don't argue with fools. And you are the king of fools because you should be old enough to know better. You think the 2nd amendment was written to protect the right to target shoot, collect guns, to hunt? You're a fool. Or maybe, like our President, you think your loyal followers are fools.

You are an emotional guy still recovering from JP kicking you out of practice! Time to grow up old man.

[Deleted]

Never gave that reason for the 2nd amendment's birth. Go back and read what I said and think, it might lead to a whole new way of life for you. We don't need guns to protect us from foreign OR domestic overthrow. We have a standing army and a militia equivalent in the National Guard. Our forefathers did not support our maintaining a standing army and added the 2nd amendment to protect the guns the colonists had and needed for domestic survival.

[CellarRat]

The founding fathers were opposed to standing armies that's why it was imperative that the people not be disarmed. It wasn't to protect their guns for domestic use.

www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm

Just stop already!

[Deleted]

Rat, you may have been out of class on the day this was discussed!

Since you maintain that you are a "student" of the federalist papers, here's a chance for you to fill in some major blanks.

Read and enjoy.

www.thefederalistpapers.org/history/the-founding-fathers-on-the-second-amendment

OBTW, I started developing grumpiness the first time I had to eat lima beans as a kid. Jimmy had nothing to do with it! Nice try, but when you lock and load, don't use ammo provided by MTS - it's usually all wet, LOL!

[CellarRat]

Here you go idiot right from your link:


“[W]hat country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.” – Letter to William Stephens Smith, November 13, 1787; The Works of Thomas Jefferson, Federal Edition (New York and London, G.P. Putnam’s Sons, 1904-5) Vol. 5


You are an idiot - keep embarrassing yourself!

Lmao!

[Deleted]

Oct 7, 2015 17:34:19 GMT -5 CellarRat said:

The founding fathers were opposed to standing armies that's why it was imperative that the people not be disarmed. It wasn't to protect their guns for domestic use.

www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm

Just stop already!

Never said it was only to protect their guns for domestic use. I said, they already had guns for domestic use and the amendment was placed to ensure they kept them and maintained shooting skills to support a militia if needed. Today we don't need weapons for the same reasons the possession of weapons protection was put in the Constitution, so a ban on assault rifles would not violate 2nd amendment rights - those that want weapons could still purchase them albeit not the AR-15/AK-47 variety. Ditto for extra capacity magazines, etc.