gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Dec 21, 2014 11:05:31 GMT -5
I get that some here didn't want Patsos as Siena's coach, but it really is too soon to get on the I told you so soapbox. At this time the goal is to get to the NCAA tournament by any means necessary. Realistically with the injuries winning the MAAC or winning the MAAC tournament is our only option. It is not about lowering expectations, but having realistic expectations. Expecting an at large bid in Patsos' second year based on a gaudy OOC record is what is something less than realistic. I don't think people we're expecting an at large bid, but they were expecting progression -- big difference. And while you hope that it is too soon to get on the soapbox, it is just your opinion just like others have an equally valid opposite view given the circumstances.
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CellarRat
Assistant Coach
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Post by CellarRat on Dec 21, 2014 11:08:58 GMT -5
I'm curious what the next step in the game of lowered expectations would be. "All we have to do is win one game in the Maac tournament" "We lost, but we played hard and we were competitive. You really can't ask for anything more than that." - JP March '15
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Post by billmurray on Dec 21, 2014 11:16:21 GMT -5
I get that some here didn't want Patsos as Siena's coach, but it really is too soon to get on the I told you so soapbox. At this time the goal is to get to the NCAA tournament by any means necessary. Realistically with the injuries winning the MAAC or winning the MAAC tournament is our only option. It is not about lowering expectations, but having realistic expectations. Expecting an at large bid in Patsos' second year based on a gaudy OOC record is what is something less than realistic. I don't think people we're expecting an at large bid, but they were expecting progression -- big difference. And while you hope that it is too soon to get on the soapbox, it is just your opinion just like others have an equally valid opposite view given the circumstances. Certainly we are all entitled to our opinion, but my point is, given "circumstances", the validity of some overly harsh opinions are questionable. We all want to see progression, I agree, but injuries happen and realistically sometimes expectations of progression have to be "tempered" in my opinion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 11:16:37 GMT -5
"All we have to do is win one game in the Maac tournament" "We lost, but we played hard and we were competitive. You really can't ask for anything more than that." - JP March '15 And there it is!
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Post by billmurray on Dec 21, 2014 11:21:20 GMT -5
"All we have to do is win one game in the Maac tournament" "We lost, but we played hard and we were competitive. You really can't ask for anything more than that." - JP March '15 So Patsos gives his shorthanded team a "pat on the back" instead of demeaning and badmouthing them, (as he has been criticized of in the past) and now he is criticized for that. The guy can't satisfy anyone no matter what his does.
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Post by SaintsFan on Dec 21, 2014 11:26:45 GMT -5
I get that some here didn't want Patsos as Siena's coach, but it really is too soon to get on the I told you so soapbox. At this time the goal is to get to the NCAA tournament by any means necessary. Realistically with the injuries winning the MAAC or winning the MAAC tournament is our only option. It is not about lowering expectations, but having realistic expectations. Expecting an at large bid in Patsos' second year based on a gaudy OOC record is what is something less than realistic. I'm one of those that didn't want him BUT I'm also not ready to Mitch him either
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Post by SaintsFan on Dec 21, 2014 11:33:31 GMT -5
Tony and bigsaint, you guys are like the guys who drool over the preseason all-league picks. It isn't about what someone thinks you can do before you actually do anything, it is about what you do. Let me explain. Tony points out that Jackson had an offer from Richmond. When his career was done he had scored 1164 points in 118 games (he was a "2 guard). Today, Evan has 1144 points in 108 games, mostly as a point guard, and with VERY limited minutes in games the past 2 years. Rob Poole has 1228 points in 106 games. Neither Rob nor Evan had offers from Richmond or any A10 school for that matter. Owen, despite his offers, failed to crack the 1,000 point scorer list playing in the MAAC for 4 seasons. Kyle Griffin was not only recruited by the A10, he played in the A10. Brandon Walters played in the Big East! What did they do in the MAAC? Sure you can say, so what? If they are being recruited by "up conferences" they are better players. I say if they are, and they still come to Siena, with rare exception (see Edwin.. and WHY he came to Siena) then they were just being recruited as "roster fillers" or "projects" and no one is going to build their team around them. Tell me which of the "up level" guys I mentioned YOU would build a team around? I think you weigh personal achievement against team results. I don't care if you score 1000 points. If your team sucks you probably had something to do with that. Poole and Hymes fall into this category. Poole is a nice third or fourth option perhaps even sixth man. In my opinion. He is expected to be a star on this team. Recipe for failure.
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Post by billmurray on Dec 21, 2014 11:34:13 GMT -5
I get that some here didn't want Patsos as Siena's coach, but it really is too soon to get on the I told you so soapbox. At this time the goal is to get to the NCAA tournament by any means necessary. Realistically with the injuries winning the MAAC or winning the MAAC tournament is our only option. It is not about lowering expectations, but having realistic expectations. Expecting an at large bid in Patsos' second year based on a gaudy OOC record is what is something less than realistic. I'm one of those that didn't want him BUT I'm also not ready to Mitch him either That is my point. Some of the criticism is mirroring the Mitch era in my opinion and it is too early to even make a serious assessment at this point.
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OneIndian
Associate Head Coach
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Post by OneIndian on Dec 21, 2014 11:49:20 GMT -5
I'm one of those that didn't want him BUT I'm also not ready to Mitch him either That is my point. Some of the criticism is mirroring the Mitch era in my opinion and it is too early to even make a serious assessment at this point. My guy was Mike Rhoades who is now at Rice 1st season. It will be interesting to track his progress and recruiting over the next couple of years vs Patsos. Patsos with two recruiting classes under his belt has underperformed. Too focused on the DC area, no long athletic shooters, shot creating SG Wings ( in a guard oriented conference btw ). I'm really worried. He needs a few home runs over the next 2 classes or IMHO he's cooked. I'm also really beginning to hate that flex O at times it resembles stall ball a la Mitch it's painful to watch.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 12:13:55 GMT -5
I'm one of those that didn't want him BUT I'm also not ready to Mitch him either That is my point. Some of the criticism is mirroring the Mitch era in my opinion and it is too early to even make a serious assessment at this point. Umm hes kind of following Mitch's trajectory excluding the CBI. Next recruiting class is invaluable to his tenure, unless 16 win seasons become acceptable.
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Post by billmurray on Dec 21, 2014 12:47:35 GMT -5
That is my point. Some of the criticism is mirroring the Mitch era in my opinion and it is too early to even make a serious assessment at this point. Umm hes kind of following Mitch's trajectory excluding the CBI. Next recruiting class is invaluable to his tenure, unless 16 win seasons become acceptable. Yeah, except for the improvement/success in the post season and 20 wins in his first year it looks just like Mitch. LOL
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IndianSaint
Associate Head Coach
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Post by IndianSaint on Dec 21, 2014 12:53:18 GMT -5
"We lost, but we played hard and we were competitive. You really can't ask for anything more than that." - JP March '15 So Patsos gives his shorthanded team a "pat on the back" instead of demeaning and badmouthing them, (as he has been criticized of in the past) and now he is criticized for that. The guy can't satisfy anyone no matter what his does. [/b] It seems everyone can't or won't be satisfied no matter the coach. If I remember correctly there have been some who didn't even like Deane, Hewitt, Orr, or Fran. Granted I doubt they were the same fans that didn't like all. Can't seem to please everyone. That's way I simply root for the coach/team year in and year out regardless who's there (like many on here). I understand what Gorvy says too about people having opinions, I get that, too. I just believe the negative opinions are people are frustrated with the losses, lack of effort, don't like coach's style/recruiting, etc.. If players are in fact reading this board as some have indicated, what does it show/tell them when we continue to negatively harp on the players or coaches or even the admin? Maybe they laugh if off, or ignor it. Maybe it motivates them. But what if it actually impacts them and/or their play negatively? Then it can't be helping to support our, so called, team. Can it?
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th24
Team Captain
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Post by th24 on Dec 21, 2014 12:55:52 GMT -5
Just to let you know! People at Siena are taking note on who is trashing the program! And who really supports the program- during good times and BAD!
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Post by MTS on Dec 21, 2014 12:56:43 GMT -5
Umm hes kind of following Mitch's trajectory excluding the CBI. Next recruiting class is invaluable to his tenure, unless 16 win seasons become acceptable. Yeah, except for the improvement/success in the post season and 20 wins in his first year it looks just like Mitch. LOL Exactly Mitch took over the 3 time defending MAAC champions and proceeded to win 13, 14 and 8 games. Jimmy took over a program probably at the worst shape it's ever been and finished with a winning record in the MAAC (And the MAAC unlike this year was pretty good last year) and finished with an overall winning season with a CBI title (if it's no big deal why is it almost always won by a BCS school or name mid-major?). This year we haven't played well but we also have a ton of injuries - not an excuse but a reality. I'm betting we still make a big run during this season. Jimmy has a "winning" system he has won 24, 23 and 20 games the last 3 years - he hasn't forgotten how to coach. All of this said - I still think Jimmy can and will improve on a number of things (i.e. recruiting- managing expectations, schedule etc). Time will tell on this but it is imperative he raises his game on these things.
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IndianSaint
Associate Head Coach
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Post by IndianSaint on Dec 21, 2014 13:01:16 GMT -5
I don't think people we're expecting an at large bid, but they were expecting progression -- big difference. And while you hope that it is too soon to get on the soapbox, it is just your opinion just like others have an equally valid opposite view given the circumstances. Certainly we are all entitled to our opinion, but my point is, given "circumstances", the validity of some overly harsh opinions are questionable. We all want to see progression, I agree, but injuries happen and realistically sometimes expectations of progression have to be "tempered" in my opinion. I admit, I was hoping to pick up from last year's CBI Championship and build upon it. Starting with the injury to Imoh, I thought it was going to be even tougher, but still possible (as long as we built on how we ended last yr). Then Brett got sick and eventually injured (probably for the season). Then players leaving, possible team chemistry issues, etc.. So I have definitely changed my expectations, but still believe we can get hot by the end of the season (just like last yr) and anything is possible. Now I'm looking at it like we really have nothing to lose this year, just get better for the rest of the year (and hopefully continue to build upon it next year).
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