th24
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Post by th24 on Nov 6, 2014 16:18:41 GMT -5
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Nov 7, 2014 6:50:40 GMT -5
So I guess Chris Mathews is no longer a sycophant? The guy is pathetic, I really don't care what he says one way or the other, it is useless to me.
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th24
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Post by th24 on Nov 7, 2014 16:50:05 GMT -5
I personally can't stand the guy! However, he did write a book about the political relationship between Tip O'Neill and Reagan. In it he described how well the two got along and were able to make deals! That's what's needed now!
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Nov 7, 2014 17:29:49 GMT -5
I personally can't stand the guy! However, he did write a book about the political relationship between Tip O'Neill and Reagan. In it he described how well the two got along and were able to make deals! That's what's needed now! I agree, but at the end tip screwed Reagan. Dems can't be trusted, most are morons or dishonest. |
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th24
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Post by th24 on Nov 7, 2014 18:14:13 GMT -5
I totally disagree! Reagan and Oneills political relationship made the country better! There was no backstabbing or bull shit!
Dems can't be trusted, most are morons or dishonest?! That's a load of crap! That's the problem..there is no middle ground and everyone from the other party is wrong!
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Nov 7, 2014 19:19:50 GMT -5
I totally disagree! Reagan and Oneills political relationship made the country better! There was no backstabbing or bull shit! Dems can't be trusted, most are morons or dishonest?! That's a load of crap! That's the problem..there is no middle ground and everyone from the other party is wrong! Agreed. You cannot generalize like that. That's a big part of the reason we will have a hard time moving forward. |
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Nov 7, 2014 19:30:15 GMT -5
I totally disagree! Reagan and Oneills political relationship made the country better! There was no backstabbing or bull shit! Dems can't be trusted, most are morons or dishonest?! That's a load of crap! That's the problem..there is no middle ground and everyone from the other party is wrong! Agreed. You cannot generalize like that. That's a big part of the reason we will have a hard time moving forward. I was of course being dramatic. I actually did like Tip, but it wasn't him that made the country better it was Reagan - and it was all Reagan. Dems were obstacles that had to be dealt with and Reagan simply dealt with him. Taking this to the present day, do you really think that any republican speaker could possibly have a working relationship with Obama? Just remember compromising especially with candidates is exactly why the republicans lost so many elections in the recent past. Compromising with legislation is just going to create more bad government at a slower rate. As hyperbolized as my original statement about dems is, it is closer to reality than I think you want to believe. Compromising isn't the way you get what you want - Just ask Obama and his dreadful crew. With regard to the "moving forward" comment, when you compromise your core values to appear cooperative you do not move forward, you just move backwards slower. The dems have been very successful destroying this country in the last 6 years. You can not simply put the brakes on and slow down the bus - you have to turn it around. |
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Nov 7, 2014 19:49:30 GMT -5
Agreed. You cannot generalize like that. That's a big part of the reason we will have a hard time moving forward. I was of course being dramatic. I actually did like Tip, but it wasn't him that made the country better it was Reagan - and it was all Reagan. Dems were obstacles that had to be dealt with and Reagan simply dealt with him. Taking this to the present day, do you really think that any republican speaker could possibly have a working relationship with Obama? Just remember compromising especially with candidates is exactly why the republicans lost so many elections in the recent past. Compromising with legislation is just going to create more bad government at a slower rate. As hyperbolized as my original statement about dems is, it is closer to reality than I think you want to believe. Compromising isn't the way you get what you want - Just ask Obama and his dreadful crew. With regard to the "moving forward" comment, when you compromise your core values to appear cooperative you do not move forward, you just move backwards slower. The dems have been very successful destroying this country in the last 6 years. You can not simply put the brakes on and slow down the bus - you have to turn it around. Depends how fast you are going. If you're going too fast in one direction, you've got to slow down before you can turn around. the results of last week were, hopefully, the start of the slow down. The turn around can complete in 2016. Tuesday was a good start if the Republicans make smart decisions from now on. If not, the tables could be turned on them. We've seen that happen before. |
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th24
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Post by th24 on Nov 7, 2014 20:06:54 GMT -5
Immigration will be a huge test for Obama! Will he make deal with Republicans !? Or go it alone ?! Keystone ?! Tax reform?!
I personally think that he will do little to nothing with the Republicans ! And piss everyone off in the next two years! Including other democrats!!!
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Nov 8, 2014 8:50:28 GMT -5
I was of course being dramatic. I actually did like Tip, but it wasn't him that made the country better it was Reagan - and it was all Reagan. Dems were obstacles that had to be dealt with and Reagan simply dealt with him. Taking this to the present day, do you really think that any republican speaker could possibly have a working relationship with Obama? Just remember compromising especially with candidates is exactly why the republicans lost so many elections in the recent past. Compromising with legislation is just going to create more bad government at a slower rate. As hyperbolized as my original statement about dems is, it is closer to reality than I think you want to believe. Compromising isn't the way you get what you want - Just ask Obama and his dreadful crew. With regard to the "moving forward" comment, when you compromise your core values to appear cooperative you do not move forward, you just move backwards slower. The dems have been very successful destroying this country in the last 6 years. You can not simply put the brakes on and slow down the bus - you have to turn it around. Depends how fast you are going. If you're going too fast in one direction, you've got to slow down before you can turn around. the results of last week were, hopefully, the start of the slow down. The turn around can complete in 2016. Tuesday was a good start if the Republicans make smart decisions from now on. If not, the tables could be turned on them. We've seen that happen before. With presidential veto power, I doubt any legislation of real value can be passed. Overriding the veto maybe possible if dems abandon and distance themselves from Obama, which of course is possible. The great fake Harry Ried is already doing his dance. I think you guys are a little naive. Just remember every dem voted for ACA! How is that even possible if you have some clear thinking dems that have any respect for the constitution and our republic. It's not. The only way reasonable change can be made with the help of the dems is if they abandon the pres to save their own skins! This is not cooperation or bipartisanship but self preservation. You do not need "cooperation" with the opposing party as much as you need the cooperation of the electorate. We need long memories and these bums must be voted out of office. |
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Nov 8, 2014 9:21:31 GMT -5
The results of Tuesday shows they are starting to distance themselves from Obama. Like I said, the start of the slow down. A lot of the Dems stepping in line with the ACA was going with the momentum of Obama.
Self-preservation is part of it, but that's a positive affect of attempting to reflect the desires of the electorate. I always thought that being an elected leader is kind of a balancing act between your values and what you feel is best for the country and what your electorate wants. There are different desires/values between majority of voters in say, WV or Utah and those in many parts of Cal, Mass or NY.
But as I have been harping for a long time, a true leader has a vision, can communicate that vision properly to the voters and negotiate with his allies and adversaries to implement most of that vision. I have yet to see a true leader emerge. There's one out there. It's just a difficult landscape to get one to come to the top.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Nov 8, 2014 9:26:49 GMT -5
Reagan was a leader, not a compromiser, that is my point. He got people to follow him, not through compromise but persuasion. Big difference. The message must be presented in a way that the electorate can digest.
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