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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 16:37:11 GMT -5
Glen this article debunks what appear to be the exact quotes you used in your reply, you might find it enlightening but then again.....! I really liked your broad swipe at the actual medical staff saying they basically are slackards and only milking the government while not providing the services at levels they were hired to provide - undertaking only 50% of the workload a more dedicated doctor would see!!! Nice! Would be interested to see how many of the positions you cited are full time - the VA has a history of using private sector specialists (I would certainly put cardiac physicians in that category) on a part time basis - the only way to attract them due to their being able to maintain their private practices. www.politicususa.com/2014/05/22/va-scandal-reveals-real-problem-republicans-wars-cost-math.html |
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th24
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Post by th24 on May 23, 2014 16:49:49 GMT -5
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Post by psycholojets on May 23, 2014 17:07:42 GMT -5
Guys we are clear that the VA system and ObamaCare have about as much in common as a Ford fusion and a city bus.
The VA would be closest to a one payer not for profit system which ObamaCare is not. Not even close. The ACA represents a multitude of separate plans managed by separate entities all hoping to make money in the process.
Use this "scandal" in whichever manner you will but it has nothing to do with the ACA and has no reflection on it what-so-ever regardless of what those on fox would have you believe.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using proboards
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 18:35:27 GMT -5
I find it truly amazing that the right can fabricate and promulgate a strong linkage based solely on one word of commonality, healthcare, and no facts, and yet totally dismiss all of the myriad facts and signals re climate change and global warming. Hatred for all things Obama can really induce both blindness and early onset-Alzheimer's - both of which are, conveniently, covered under the ACA even as pre-existing conditions (which in these cases they truly are, LOL).
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th24
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Post by th24 on May 23, 2014 18:56:01 GMT -5
Wow - the last two posts are pathetic ! And it's the bull shit you hear from Obama Palosi and Harry Reid !
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 19:01:37 GMT -5
Wow - the last two posts are pathetic ! And it's the bull shit you hear from Obama Palosi and Harry Reid ! Brilliant comeback! I'm sure you gave it your best shot, LMAO! I'm really impressed however, you didn't need a FOX video to express your very well constructed and telling reply. Someday, you'll have to share what it's like to live in a world filled with hatred and devoid of any facts or truths - it would likely make a sound basis for a science fiction series on the comedy channel. OBTW, who is "Obama Palosi"? Perhaps you were out that day in 3rd grade when punctuation was presented. I think you meant to say 'Obama(COMMA) P elosi' but can't be sure based solely on the content of your presentation. At least you got Senator Reid's name right - remember, the first rule in battle is know your enemy and spelling counts........  |
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th24
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Post by th24 on May 23, 2014 19:23:11 GMT -5
Asshole !!!
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 19:29:39 GMT -5
Perfect spelling but you still need work on your punctuation usage - no space is used between the word "Asshole" and the first exclamation point! Don't despair, you'll get it eventually - hard to learn things like that using FOX TV or video snippets as your only source of news material. |
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on May 23, 2014 19:44:23 GMT -5
I find it truly amazing that the right can fabricate and promulgate a strong linkage based solely on one word of commonality, healthcare, and no facts, and yet totally dismiss all of the myriad facts and signals re climate change and global warming. Hatred for all things Obama can really induce both blindness and early onset-Alzheimer's - both of which are, conveniently, covered under the ACA even as pre-existing conditions (which in these cases they truly are, LOL). I agree that there's no particular link to the VA issues and ACA (although it's a good justification for the argument against single payer and any increase in allowing the govt control over anything significant). But I find it pathetic to keep blaming Bush 5+ years after he left office esp since VA problems were a big campaign topic for Obama in 08. How long before he starts taking responsibility for these issues? And if the VA budget has increased under Obama as stated before, then it just shows how Obama just seems to think that throwing money at something without any mgmt or leadership can make everything Ok. Finally, with all this money thrown at it how is it possible that he only hears about it through the news report (link below) and doesn't make a serious address on it until 30 days later. Seems to show the difference between somebody who hads ever run anything and a 'community organizer'. t.co/8c5SBghd37 |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2014 5:34:01 GMT -5
I find it truly amazing that the right can fabricate and promulgate a strong linkage based solely on one word of commonality, healthcare, and no facts, and yet totally dismiss all of the myriad facts and signals re climate change and global warming. Hatred for all things Obama can really induce both blindness and early onset-Alzheimer's - both of which are, conveniently, covered under the ACA even as pre-existing conditions (which in these cases they truly are, LOL). I agree that there's no particular link to the VA issues and ACA (although it's a good justification for the argument against single payer and any increase in allowing the govt control over anything significant). But I find it pathetic to keep blaming Bush 5+ years after he left office esp since VA problems were a big campaign topic for Obama in 08. How long before he starts taking responsibility for these issues? And if the VA budget has increased under Obama as stated before, then it just shows how Obama just seems to think that throwing money at something without any mgmt or leadership can make everything Ok. Finally, with all this money thrown at it how is it possible that he only hears about it through the news report (link below) and doesn't make a serious address on it until 30 days later. Seems to show the difference between somebody who hads ever run anything and a 'community organizer'. t.co/8c5SBghd37"no particular link" - C'mon I82, you're smarter than that. The VA problems were in existence under Bush and the ACA has absolutely no linkage to the VA's continued problems. "single payer" needs some reinforecement - the ACA is NOT a single payer system and never was envisioned to be such. It wouldn't surprise me that the confusion in this area may come from the simple fact that the ACA requires single people and everyone else to buy health insurance FROM PRIVATE PROVIDERS. "keep blaming Bush 5+ years after he left office" - Bush started two totally unfunded/unbudgeted wars that continue today. That drain on the economy wasn't going to be fixed immediately after a change in administrations - especially with a Republican controlled congress (yes, the control the Senate too since 60 votes are needed, not a simple majority) that suddenly developed a fiscal conscience and took a pledge to ensure Obama failed in office! The increases in VA budgets went to all things related to veterans, not just to the VA hospital system. The increases were cut back by the Republicans. If you don't have adequate staff you can't provide adequate service. "with all this money thrown at it how is it possible that he only hears about it through the news report" - the problem had been hidden for a number of years via the lower level creation of the secret lists. A whistleblower in one VA hospital contacted CNN and they spent months looking into the allegation and its possible extnsion to other VA hospitals. The secret lists allowed management to report favorable wait times and the problem appeared to have been fixed. Knowing how people are, it is a certainty that when one hospital all of a sudden started reporting low wait times other managers contacted those they knew through departmental networking (regional and national meetings, etc.) to see what had been done. The shared secret spread. As to how long it took for the President to make a major speech on it - the CNN report focused on one hospital, hinted that the problem might exist at a couple of others - at that point the story was not yet at Presidential levels. OBTW, there were some other "things" going on in the world that the President and his Administration was focusing on - a little problem in Crimea and the Ukraine. While I can see how you would expect an instant reaction similar to how FOX and the Republican attack dogs would react with few facts and only a hint of a major problem, would you have shifted the President's focus to one VA hospital's reported secret list? |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2014 5:52:13 GMT -5
What are you guys getting out of this system that you can defend it with such blind faith? Do you think you'll achieve Sainthood by backing Obama? Do you think he is being honest with his oh geez, we didn't know about that, good thing papers can inform us attitude? The lower level incompetence causes all these problems excuse is getting very old. One scandal after the other and you march hand in hand to a non existent Utopia with this guy?
Mr McCarthy, where are you?
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2014 6:11:21 GMT -5
What are you guys getting out of this system that you can defend it with such blind faith? Do you think you'll achieve Sainthood by backing Obama? Do you think he is being honest with his oh geez, we didn't know about that, good thing papers can inform us attitude? The lower level incompetence causes all these problems excuse is getting very old. One scandal after the other and you march hand in hand to a non existent Utopia with this guy? Mr McCarthy, where are you? 's I guess your vision of my "blind faith" is similar to my vision of your "blind hatred"! As to your question - NOTHING, NADA, Not f'n thing - my dependence on my Government comes in a small check on the second Wednesday of each month! My biggest shortcoming from your viewpoint is my having an open and inquiring mind rather than one controlled by the crap thrown out by one, and only one, major media outlet! Your last quip "Mr McCarthy, where are you?" is both extremely scary and a perfect example as to how you guys on the extreme right think and, unfortunately, act. The combination of FOX's controlling political agenda and the internet has facilitated an unbridled world of right wing McCarthyism. |
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on May 24, 2014 6:27:36 GMT -5
What are you guys getting out of this system that you can defend it with such blind faith? Do you think you'll achieve Sainthood by backing Obama? Do you think he is being honest with his oh geez, we didn't know about that, good thing papers can inform us attitude? The lower level incompetence causes all these problems excuse is getting very old. One scandal after the other and you march hand in hand to a non existent Utopia with this guy? Mr McCarthy, where are you? The excuses are incredible! Always blaming the low-level employees. Where does the buck stop? To MP, I already agreed with the first 2 points. How long is this admin and the apologists going to keep blaming Bush? This is ridiculous! Yes, there were 2 wars. And, yes, I agree these issues were probably there during that admin. But that was his campaign issue. What has happened? What kind of environment is being fostered? Do you really think he can do no wrong? I understand you agreeing with his policies, but do you really think he is a good leader and manager? He has had responsibility for the bureaus under his watch for a long time. The Cabinet was appointed by him. The similarities between the IRS and VA scandals are so similar. This is a pattern. Look beyond the policies that you may like - look objectively at the manager, the executive. He's admittedly a community organizer, never having run anything before he was given reins to the country. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2014 6:51:24 GMT -5
What are you guys getting out of this system that you can defend it with such blind faith? Do you think you'll achieve Sainthood by backing Obama? Do you think he is being honest with his oh geez, we didn't know about that, good thing papers can inform us attitude? The lower level incompetence causes all these problems excuse is getting very old. One scandal after the other and you march hand in hand to a non existent Utopia with this guy? Mr McCarthy, where are you? 's I guess your vision of my "blind faith" is similar to my vision of your "blind hatred"! As to your question - NOTHING, NADA, Not f'n thing - my dependence on my Government comes in a small check on the second Wednesday of each month! My biggest shortcoming from your viewpoint is my having an open and inquiring mind rather than one controlled by the crap thrown out by one, and only one, major media outlet! Your last quip "Mr McCarthy, where are you?" is both extremely scary and a perfect example as to how you guys on the extreme right think and, unfortunately, act. The combination of FOX's controlling political agenda and the internet has facilitated an unbridled world of right wing McCarthyism. That's were you are wrong the only thing I hate is the unaffordable direction the country is headed in. I am all for a helping hand to those in need but bringing generations up to be dependent on the government " us the taxpayer" for their total well being is insanity. At least take care of those who defended our country before some illegal. With the NSA keeping track of all of us and no one watching what's going on in goverment agencies the inmates are running the asylum. Your favorite news organizations, propaganda outlets for the left, are as or more extreme than FOX so your point is moot as FOX is outnumbered on that front. Mr McCarthy is rolling in his grave. Ohhhh scary! Reid and Pelosi make McCarthy look like a boy scout. |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2014 7:40:27 GMT -5
What are you guys getting out of this system that you can defend it with such blind faith? Do you think you'll achieve Sainthood by backing Obama? Do you think he is being honest with his oh geez, we didn't know about that, good thing papers can inform us attitude? The lower level incompetence causes all these problems excuse is getting very old. One scandal after the other and you march hand in hand to a non existent Utopia with this guy? Mr McCarthy, where are you? The excuses are incredible! Always blaming the low-level employees. Where does the buck stop? To MP, I already agreed with the first 2 points. How long is this admin and the apologists going to keep blaming Bush? This is ridiculous! Yes, there were 2 wars. And, yes, I agree these issues were probably there during that admin. But that was his campaign issue. What has happened? What kind of environment is being fostered? Do you really think he can do no wrong? I understand you agreeing with his policies, but do you really think he is a good leader and manager? He has had responsibility for the bureaus under his watch for a long time. The Cabinet was appointed by him. The similarities between the IRS and VA scandals are so similar. This is a pattern. Look beyond the policies that you may like - look objectively at the manager, the executive. He's admittedly a community organizer, never having run anything before he was given reins to the country. I82, here's a simple question - where in the overall chain do you think the VA secret list idea originated? Ditto for the IRS's focus on the new Tea Party campaign funding organizations? The Pay for Performance bonus idea at the VA likely came from the top (Cabinet level, not Presidential) but I seriously doubt the adoption of secret lists originated there. If they did, the problem would be totally system wide and that has yet to be seen - widespread yes but not totally implemented in all VA hospitals/clinics. I personally think it went viral to a degree when those VA managers who saw what appeared to be improved wait times at other VA facilities looked into how they did it - they wanted their bonuses as well. Do you think President Obama created the environment that permitted these abuses to begin with, and, if so what is that belief based on? Do you think an immediate firing of the Cabinet level position would, on its own, solve the problem and stop the behavior? That didn't work when the moved Shinseki in. Would you then just appoint a new guy with a blanket find it and fix it mission and no additional resources? If the new guy/gal said I need more staff funding to provide adequate medical coverage and Congress said NO what would you do? How would you have instructed the IRS to look at the applications for the myriad group of new political organizations loosely categorized as the Tea Party? Since you as President would feel totally responsible for all things in all departments at all levels how would you structure your work week to facilitate random visits to routine lower level staff meetings? Yes, we do blame some of the stuff on Bush just as his Administration blamed stuff on Clinton, etc., etc., etc. Bush's policies can't be ignored and they have a halflife that we feel now as this economy is still not fixed and our now ignored wars are still taking lives and treasure for no apparent valid reason. I do blame the obstructionist Republicans for the slow recovery. Did Bush take a surplus and run up a deficit? I don't understand how you guys just completely discount those things that helped get us where we are now! |
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