Rep.Trey Gowdy (R) RIPS the liberal media

[glen]

MP - my mistake on the embassy vs outpost. Still, the 3am call came and nobody answered. Worse yet, it appears that forces were called off. This is contrary to the claim that nothing could be done. I'm sorry but this stinks all the way around. This admin is all politics all the time. Is this why Hillary didn't add Boko Haram to the terrorist list? I get politics. That's the nature of the beast but at some point it can't be all political correctness. At some point you have to do the right thing even if it spoils the meme.

[th24]

Funny! The bullshit that comes out of MP is the same crap you hear from a Chris Matthews meltdown!

[Deleted]

May 14, 2014 7:21:22 GMT -5 th24 said:

Funny! The bullshit that comes out of MP is the same crap you hear from a Chris Matthews meltdown!

I stopped watching Chris Matthews years ago - he dominates his interviews and his style turned me way. He usually had good people on the show and I really wanted to hear them answer the question he both asked and then answered. Glad to hear that you at least watch him and are able to make the comparison. The odd thing about truth is in its unwavering consistency! I will pass on your comment to one of my closest friends who is a big fan of Matthews to see if she sees a comparison. LOL!

[Deleted]

May 14, 2014 7:08:53 GMT -5 glen said:

MP - my mistake on the embassy vs outpost. Still, the 3am call came and nobody answered. Worse yet, it appears that forces were called off. This is contrary to the claim that nothing could be done. I'm sorry but this stinks all the way around. This admin is all politics all the time. Is this why Hillary didn't add Boko Haram to the terrorist list? I get politics. That's the nature of the beast but at some point it can't be all political correctness. At some point you have to do the right thing even if it spoils the meme.

From what I recall, the military response was a time and distance issue compounded by the fog of war. An air response would have necessitated jets from Italy and they would not have arrived in time. Boots on the ground were way across country in Tripoli and represented by a small force of Marine Embassy guards. Imagine the outcry if they had been pulled and then an attack of similar proportions on the Embassy itself had happened. Sort of a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation, IMO. The fog of war reality comes into consideration when you realize Stevens' body, along with his fallen compatriots was removed from the CIA rented outpost where the attack occurred to the Annex (another classified CIA more permanent location) across Benghazi and then to a local hospital. There was absolutely not a shred of truth in the early FOX stories that his body was dragged through the town ala the Blackhawk Down incident. The military response is always up to the area command after given a green light by those higher up in the chain after being appraised of that commander's assessment. We don't know the details of those discussions, nor should we. How we evaluate such incidents is information you don't to give to your enemies to allow them to plan accordingly. I firmly believe that there was no political thinking involved other than a possible concern from a foreign relations point of view that a military response, already judged to be too late, would have incurred civilian collateral losses as well with no real benefit. Not a pretty situation in anyone's mind. Hindsight is always perfect vision and coupled with a visceral hate for all things Obama/Clinton we got the expected political response from the always right Right!

[Deleted]

So in your opinion they were expendable casualties of a bad B movie.

[Deleted]

May 14, 2014 10:21:43 GMT -5 @racersedge said:

So in your opinion they were expendable casualties of a bad B movie.

Harsh! My point was that no response would have saved them. They were anything but expendable. Four very patriotic Americans died in the service of their country and not as a result of their country's disservice to them.

[psycholojets]

The attempt to paint this as negligence rather than a tragedy is one if the hardest things about this side show.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using proboards

[Deleted]

Let me ask a few questions that some of the Benghazi experts on this board might want to consider.

Consider first:

1)Ambassador Stevens or someone in the Embassy in Tripoli is reported to have requested additional security for the Embassy,
2)There is no US Consulate in Benghazi so the State Department would not have added a single security staff position to any Benghazi site (remember, the CIA is not in the State Department),
3)Ambassador Stevens went to Benghazi to meet with CIA personnel in one of two secret CIA facilities in Benghazi,
4)Ambassador Stevens traveled to Benghazi by road and brought with him a security force of three men.

The questions:

1)Had the CIA requested additional security for their facilities in Benghazi (remember, these were supposedly black sites, although it appears the terrorists knew of their existence, and the CIA is notoriously self-sufficient and not wanting to draw extra attention to secret sites through visible security upgrades/forces)?
2)If Ambassador Stevens was concerned with his own security, why would he undertake a mission to the opposite end of the country with only three security personnel and not take some of the palace guard from the Embassy?
3)How many additional security personnel would have been required to have been able to prevent Ambassador Stevens' death?
4)If the State Department had provided the supposedly requested additional Embassy security, do you think Ambassador Stevens would have taken a large force with him for his meeting with the CIA?

One last ridiculous question - do you honestly believe that anyone in our Government would have willfully denied support at the time of the unanticipated attack? If you answer yes, I feel very, very sorry for you and your outlook on this country.

[glen]

MP - good questions. What is the difference between "diplomatic mission", consulate and embassy? I really don't know.

I'm not sure how to answer your questions. My best guess is that something "top secret" was going on there which may have precluded additional forces. Not sure.

As to your closing statement, I think you're getting the picture. Many (myself included) do have a less than optimistic view for the future of the nation. It is unthinkable that the president and SoS would let Americans die but yet here we are. Their own coverup of this thing doesn't help. The optics are really bad - you have to admit that. It's also unthinkable that federal agencies would be used to attack political opponents but again that's what we have with the IRS (and other's that were called in to harass conservatives). YOU should be outraged because this can easily boomerang. Next time it could be progressive groups that are targeted. The net is that, yes, there are things going on that leave many wondering how we can recover. At some point right and wrong needs to be black and white and not a Red vs Blue thing.

NOTE: I'm not saying Repubs are saints and there's nothing wrong on that side of the aisle.

[glen]

MP - I just verified - an embassy/consulate/mission are all considered sovereign territory.

[Deleted]

Glen, diplomatic missions include embassies, consulate general and consular agency offices. Embassies are normally located within a country's capitol. Consulates are located in various cities depending largely on US travel destinations. Countries may have only an Embassy of the US or an Embassy of the US and one or more Consulate General Offices. For example, Libya has only a US Embassy, located in Tripoli. South Africa has the US Embassy in Pretoria and US Consulate General Offices in Cape Town, Durban and Johannesburg. Palestine does not have a US Embassy but does have a Consulate General office. The head of the Embassy is the Ambassador while the head of the Consulate General Offices is the Consul. The Embassy's function is political while the function of the Consulates is more administrative, e.g., Visas, traveler support/aid, etc.

I am certain Ambassador Stevens' mission to the CIA offices was highly classified. I have read that he preferred to maintain a low visibility and was highly respected for that. He did not exhibit the arrogant US posture that some representatives of the US have displayed over our history, resulting in less than positive views of Americans by the people in those countries. Ambassador Stevens' was seen as an individual who was correcting that view of us through his own actions. As such, the low key travel group of four fits his style and persona.

I do agree that there are many very serious abuses by those in power in our Government. The IRS case you cite is troubling but one that is hard to really evaluate given the current right vs left spin cycle as these occurrences get washed in the public's eye. The current VA Hospital secret list scandal is another example. I may be naïve but I do believe that those types of behaviors are initiated within the agency by those with personal agendas. I really don't see things like that originating or even having visibility at Cabinet or Presidential levels. Those folks just have too much real work to do and don't have the luxury to mess in the weeds. I do feel that quick action must be taken by those at the highest level immediately upon discovery. I hope Shinseki becomes an after thought in short order. I can't understand why the President hasn't asked for his head already - only possible explanation might be early action by the IG looking into the various state hospitals reported to have the secret lists.

[Deleted]

May 14, 2014 13:45:57 GMT -5 glen said:

MP - I just verified - an embassy/consulate/mission are all considered sovereign territory.

Very true, but the Benghazi attack was on a small CIA facility, not a diplomatic mission which I think was your earlier point.

"The main US facility in Benghazi was not the small mission building in which Stevens and an aide died, but a larger unmarked compound described as “the Annex” that housed at least 20 people from the CIA. Two security guards at this building were killed by a mortar barrage eight hours after the attack that killed Stevens.

The disparity in staffing between the CIA compound and the diplomatic outpost is telling: the main mission of the US government in Benghazi was the CIA operation, which had spearheaded by the campaign against Gaddafi in 2011, but by 2012 was devoted to a different and even bloodier operation: recruiting manpower and supplying weapons to the Islamic fundamentalist insurgency against the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad."


"As was noted on AT recently, a retired State Department Foreign Service Officer said: "Our Benghazi facility was a half-baked operation. It was not a consulate. It was a 'facility' with an ambiguous purpose, at least as far as the unclassified world is concerned."
If it was not a consulate, then it was not sovereign United States territory."

[glen]

MP - thanks for the clarification.