CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Feb 21, 2014 4:23:50 GMT -5
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Post by SaintsFan on Feb 21, 2014 6:11:19 GMT -5
And if the union doesnt go to bat for him... they get sued. You do realize that some of what you are complaining about is actually driven by individuals abusing the intent of unions. You know damn well if they sat back and did nothing they would be next in court. Liken it to a defense attorney who has to represent a guy like this... only a Union is obligated as he is a member. A defense attorney could turn the case down ... unless they wanted the money or recognition |
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Feb 21, 2014 6:26:49 GMT -5
And if the union doesnt go to bat for him... they get sued. You do realize that some of what you are complaining about is actually driven by individuals abusing the intent of unions. You know damn well if they sat back and did nothing they would be next in court. Liken it to a defense attorney who has to represent a guy like this... only a Union is obligated as he is a member. A defense attorney could turn the case down ... unless they wanted the money or recognition I don't know whether they're obligated or not. And I don't really care. Not sure I've ever heard of any suits against unions - except A-Rod - and he dropped it. All I know is if they had any morals they wouldn't be supporting that type of element. Just more examples of how I feel unions have overstepped their bounds. |
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Post by SaintsFan on Feb 21, 2014 11:04:54 GMT -5
And if the union doesnt go to bat for him... they get sued. You do realize that some of what you are complaining about is actually driven by individuals abusing the intent of unions. You know damn well if they sat back and did nothing they would be next in court. Liken it to a defense attorney who has to represent a guy like this... only a Union is obligated as he is a member. A defense attorney could turn the case down ... unless they wanted the money or recognition I don't know whether they're obligated or not. And I don't really care. Not sure I've ever heard of any suits against unions - except A-Rod - and he dropped it. All I know is if they had any morals they wouldn't be supporting that type of element. Just more examples of how I feel unions have overstepped their bounds. again thats just Union hating. They are indeed obligated to represent the employee with any misconduct issues or disputes with employers. Again... relying on news outlets for information... makes us pretty ignorant to judge this situation. on another closely related topic... i was much closer to the Raucci case and know for a fact that the Union, as much as they wanted to distance themselves in that case were obligated. Again... its very similar to an attorney who is obligated to represent a client to the fullest even if they know the client is guilty. You make not like that and THEY may not like that but that is part of Union representation when misconduct claims etc arise. It may be ugly here in this case or in the Raucci case but what you dont hear much if anything ever about is how a Union successfully defended an employee when the employer was abusive in some fashion. |
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Feb 21, 2014 12:55:28 GMT -5
I don't pretend to know anything inside on the Raucci case, but that is a little different in that he was a (ruthless) union leader as well. An example of the unions not policing themselves and allowing abuse within its ranks. Granted, an extreme case, but so is a teacher sexually abusing their students. Worse than most cases of employer abuse in that Raucci terrorized his subordinates in a number of ways: mentally, physically, in the workplace, and at their homes. I also know for a fact in the office that I work in we've had a number of employees who have been arrested for on-the-job as well as off-the-job offenses which caused them to lose their jobs (in most cases very promptly) and the union did nothing to support them. If they want to and they really have a true moral fiber, they can distance themselves - it might take a little weathering and some testicular fortitude, but it can be done. Some things are either right or they are not. I am not a union hater - I've benefited myself over the years, but like mgmt in many organizations that you are very wary of, they have often become a bloated, bureaucratic entity that I truly believe has overstepped its bounds of doing good. Also, they have become another huge group of lobbyists and political contributors, that I lump together with others from both the left and right. One of the first reforms I would make if I was king  I don't want to get lost in all of this is that I do believe they have served and continue to serve a very useful purpose, but like many big-money, large organizations often become self-serving and go too far. |
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Post by SaintsFan on Feb 22, 2014 4:32:57 GMT -5
I don't pretend to know anything inside on the Raucci case, but that is a little different in that he was a (ruthless) union leader as well. An example of the unions not policing themselves and allowing abuse within its ranks. Granted, an extreme case, but so is a teacher sexually abusing their students. Worse than most cases of employer abuse in that Raucci terrorized his subordinates in a number of ways: mentally, physically, in the workplace, and at their homes. I also know for a fact in the office that I work in we've had a number of employees who have been arrested for on-the-job as well as off-the-job offenses which caused them to lose their jobs (in most cases very promptly) and the union did nothing to support them. If they want to and they really have a true moral fiber, they can distance themselves - it might take a little weathering and some testicular fortitude, but it can be done. Some things are either right or they are not. I am not a union hater - I've benefited myself over the years, but like mgmt in many organizations that you are very wary of, they have often become a bloated, bureaucratic entity that I truly believe has overstepped its bounds of doing good. Also, they have become another huge group of lobbyists and political contributors, that I lump together with others from both the left and right. One of the first reforms I would make if I was king I don't want to get lost in all of this is that I do believe they have served and continue to serve a very useful purpose, but like many big-money, large organizations often become self-serving and go too far. When it comes to raucci im not pretending to know (wasnt sure if you were implying that). I do know. But as you said yourself...you're using extreme cases to paint a picture of unions. We don't know what is up with that teacher and that money. To me it reads like a technicality that the teacher played to get the money. That part is unrelated to the charges. Im guessing technically they are on the hook for the money and thus the Union has to be involved. Its ugly but my guess again is all involved got played by the teacher. A small article isnt going to begin to explain the whole situation and it wouldnt be the first time the press embellished or misled with a story |
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Feb 22, 2014 8:36:21 GMT -5
I don't pretend to know anything inside on the Raucci case, but that is a little different in that he was a (ruthless) union leader as well. An example of the unions not policing themselves and allowing abuse within its ranks. Granted, an extreme case, but so is a teacher sexually abusing their students. Worse than most cases of employer abuse in that Raucci terrorized his subordinates in a number of ways: mentally, physically, in the workplace, and at their homes. I also know for a fact in the office that I work in we've had a number of employees who have been arrested for on-the-job as well as off-the-job offenses which caused them to lose their jobs (in most cases very promptly) and the union did nothing to support them. If they want to and they really have a true moral fiber, they can distance themselves - it might take a little weathering and some testicular fortitude, but it can be done. Some things are either right or they are not. I am not a union hater - I've benefited myself over the years, but like mgmt in many organizations that you are very wary of, they have often become a bloated, bureaucratic entity that I truly believe has overstepped its bounds of doing good. Also, they have become another huge group of lobbyists and political contributors, that I lump together with others from both the left and right. One of the first reforms I would make if I was king I don't want to get lost in all of this is that I do believe they have served and continue to serve a very useful purpose, but like many big-money, large organizations often become self-serving and go too far. When it comes to raucci im not pretending to know (wasnt sure if you were implying that). I do know. But as you said yourself...you're using extreme cases to paint a picture of unions. We don't know what is up with that teacher and that money. To me it reads like a technicality that the teacher played to get the money. That part is unrelated to the charges. Im guessing technically they are on the hook for the money and thus the Union has to be involved. Its ugly but my guess again is all involved got played by the teacher. A small article isnt going to begin to explain the whole situation and it wouldnt be the first time the press embellished or misled with a story No, didn't mean to imply that at all, just an expression I use - I should probably watch it. I understand that there is always more to most stories. Doesn't change my view that unions have served a meaningful purpose, but have gotten bloated, often power-hungry and can actually be counter-productive (usually unintentionally). They contributed to a lot of the manufacturing leaving, with a lot of other factors thrown in as well. That was my original intent of this thread showing the VW workers voting the UAW down. |
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