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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2013 8:32:23 GMT -5
I don't think it is as easy as saying we're moving. Now if you want to say there appeared to be a lack of a long range plan by the AD and the school I would say it was possible or maybe there was a plan and the last few years derailed it...... If there was a plan, it could have started in 1989 when Mike Deane took them to the tourney. You think if they were proactive for 20+ years, they wouldn't have had opportunities? Many programs with lesser resources made it happen. The admin has admitted they will not be proactive. That's why it hasn't happened, not because it "can't".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2013 8:34:06 GMT -5
I'm saying other schools are proactive. Siena has had great facilities and fan base for years, if they tried to move, they could have. But apparently, only you can ever be right. Every D1 team that ever changed conferences must have sat and waited for an invite. It's a good thing you are a "moderator" so you can tell everyone their opinion is wrong and yours is right. I thought we were all entitled to our opinion. You are entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is. At one time Siena had no intention of moving- That has changed with new president. A bad hire was made once Fran left and that has delayed any potential move by Siena. Not many "up" conferences interested in program coming off 3 straight losing seasons. Or maybe you have some "inside" information on how Siena turned down a move to a better conference in last 5 years? Listen you can be successful without the big money from NCAA units--( See Davidson and Vermont) but the really successful mid majors ( Gonzaga- Butler- VCU- Creighton- Wichita State) all played in conferences where they got the lions share of NCAA units. And I should also add there is no denying the bad hires Siena has made under Darg's watch which has also held program back Why is it about "the last 5 years" now? I never said anything about the last 5 years, but now I need "inside" info or I'm wrong? Have a great day.
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Post by Tony on Aug 31, 2013 8:40:51 GMT -5
I don't think it is as easy as saying we're moving. Now if you want to say there appeared to be a lack of a long range plan by the AD and the school I would say it was possible or maybe there was a plan and the last few years derailed it...... If there was a plan, it could have started in 1989 when Mike Deane took them to the tourney. You think if they were proactive for 20+ years, they wouldn't have had opportunities? Many programs with lesser resources made it happen. The admin has admitted they will not be proactive. That's why it hasn't happened, not because it "can't". Sorry Magic- that is not quite right... it was correct under prior president at Siena- it is no longer true under Fr Kevin, who has a broader vision of Siena men's BB,and sports in general - you dont build a 17 million dollar practice facility to play in MAAC- I cant be any clearer than that- also take a peak at Siena latest 5 year plan and look at athletics
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Post by Tony on Aug 31, 2013 8:42:56 GMT -5
I never said anything about the last 5 years, but now I need "inside" info or I'm wrong? Have a great day. Glad I could "educate you" hope that helps Magic
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Aug 31, 2013 8:49:28 GMT -5
Love the "Like" button. Saves me from responding to a bunch of posts with +1, agreed, etc. and, everyone from having to scroll through those posts!
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Aug 31, 2013 9:12:27 GMT -5
Love the "Like" button. Saves me from responding to a bunch of posts with +1, agreed, etc. and, everyone from having to scroll through those posts! Agreed but come on, how can you not acknowledge "The Maac is like a communist conference". That is priceless, a like button doesn't do it justice! :-)
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Post by SaintsFan on Aug 31, 2013 9:29:22 GMT -5
15 years ago people didn't think Gonzaga could be where they are either. When everyone starts making excuses why it can't happen, that's why it doesn't happen. Explained this several times-- cant happen in the MAAC.. the MAAC is like a communist conference. When you go to NCAA most of the money goes to MAAC-- Gonzaga- Butler VCU-Xavier - played in revenue sharing conferences where the team that goes to NCAA gets to keep approx 70% of NCAA revenue over entire 7 year period.. that's why those teams are able to pay their coaches a million a year or more. And while even they occasionally lose coaches the turnover is much less. One of several reasons why Siena needs to get out of the MAAC For those of you who didn't know... I suggest reading Tony's post and understanding it. It is the biggest hurdle facing Siena as a MAAC member. The other teams will NEVER vote for a change in revenue sharing. They can continue to live off the reputation and successes of others, never having to invest more in their own programs. Tony, you should post the revenue lost as a maac team had Siena been in a different conference. Magically Siena would be able to pay a coach a million or more after that mccafferey run
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Post by Tony on Aug 31, 2013 9:36:11 GMT -5
Siena earned 5 NCAA units Fran’s last 3 years- with each unit worth approx. 250K a year for 6 years, Siena earned the conference approx. 1.25 million per year… Siena got 70K the year it went and 20K for second game- over next 6 years St peters got as much as Siena from the Saints NCAA runs. In say a A10 type conference Siena would have been guaranteed close to a million a year for 6 years—you invest that back into program for Coach’s salary , Recruiting ,Plane charters etc.. and easy to why Gonzaga, Butler, VCU, Xavier were able to do what they have done. Without the money it’s next to impossible to be consistent. For example if Siena was getting that money and was paying Fran say 1.1 million a year ..does he go to Iowa for 1.2 a year? Maybe—but maybe not and as we have said many times with Basabe and Allen coming in Siena would have barely missed a beat the year after Ubiles, Franklin and Moore graduated , more NCAA runs would have meant more money etc…not only would Siena be in the A10 right now, we would be serious contenders for the new big east
In the MAAC all Siena’s NCAA runs did is keep conference dues down for MAAC programs that don’t invest in their men’s BB program .. and make no mistake about it-- money talks in Men’s BB . And those NCAA’ units allows Xavier- Butler- VCU –Gonzaga to pay their coaches over a million a year .. fly charter to games, upgrade recruiting etc .In short you can be a Vermont or Davidson in the MAAC ( although Siena has been poor in picking replacement coaches after a successful run) but you can never get to level of the really elite mids playing from the MAAC. The biggest reason why Siena needs to get out of the MAAC
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Aug 31, 2013 9:42:08 GMT -5
Explained this several times-- cant happen in the MAAC.. the MAAC is like a communist conference. When you go to NCAA most of the money goes to MAAC-- Gonzaga- Butler VCU-Xavier - played in revenue sharing conferences where the team that goes to NCAA gets to keep approx 70% of NCAA revenue over entire 7 year period.. that's why those teams are able to pay their coaches a million a year or more. And while even they occasionally lose coaches the turnover is much less. One of several reasons why Siena needs to get out of the MAAC For those of you who didn't know... I suggest reading Tony's post and understanding it. It is the biggest hurdle facing Siena as a MAAC member. The other teams will NEVER vote for a change in revenue sharing. They can continue to live off the reputation and successes of others, never having to invest more in their own programs. Tony, you should post the revenue lost as a maac team had Siena been in a different conference. Magically Siena would be able to pay a coach a million or more after that mccafferey run Unfortunately this attitude has permeated society not just the Maac. It causes mediocrity as it doesn't reward investment of time and effort but actually punishes it.
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CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Aug 31, 2013 9:45:57 GMT -5
Siena earned 5 NCAA units Fran’s last 3 years- with each unit worth approx. 250K a year for 6 years, Siena earned the conference approx. 1.25 million per year… Siena got 70K the year it went and 20K for second game- over next 6 years St peters got as much as Siena from the Saints NCAA runs. In say a A10 type conference Siena would have been guaranteed close to a million a year for 6 years—you invest that back into program for Coach’s salary , Recruiting ,Plane charters etc.. and easy to why Gonzaga, Butler, VCU, Xavier were able to do what they have done. Without the money it’s next to impossible to be consistent. For example if Siena was getting that money and was paying Fran say 1.1 million a year ..does he go to Iowa for 1.2 a year? Maybe—but maybe not and as we have said many times with Basabe and Allen coming in Siena would have barely missed a beat the year after Ubiles, Franklin and Moore graduated , more NCAA runs would have meant more money etc…not only would Siena be in the A10 right now, we would be serious contenders for the new big east In the MAAC all Siena’s NCAA runs did is keep conference dues down for MAAC programs that don’t invest in their men’s BB program .. and make no mistake about it-- money talks in Men’s BB . And those NCAA’ units allows Xavier- Butler- VCU –Gonzaga to pay their coaches over a million a year .. fly charter to games, upgrade recruiting etc .In short you can be a Vermont or Davidson in the MAAC ( although Siena has been poor in picking replacement coaches after a successful run) but you can never get to level of the really elite mids playing from the MAAC. The biggest reason why Siena needs to get out of the MAAC Great post! Thanks for the education. As a side note you can not "like" a post on an iPhone. +1
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Post by hockeyguy on Aug 31, 2013 12:03:42 GMT -5
Tony, very hard to disagree with anything you say, except how do you reconcile that to "Franciscan Values", and the college is first and foremost a Franciscan institution. There are many pieces to the puzzle and it not always easy to make them all fit.
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Post by Tony on Aug 31, 2013 12:19:33 GMT -5
Tony, very hard to disagree with anything you say, except how do you reconcile that to "Franciscan Values", and the college is first and foremost a Franciscan institution. There are many pieces to the puzzle and it not always easy to make them all fit. Easy read Siena's Strategic plan 2011-2014-- it has 4 planks..with athletics the 4th plank. Siena's goal Initiative 4 Expand and leverage investment in Division I athletics to promote the reputation of the College and enhance student engagement www.siena.edu/pages/5956.asp read it,... it talks about increased fund raising, investing in sports etc, like I've said you dont build a 17 million dollar practice facility to play in the MAAC
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Post by hockeyguy on Aug 31, 2013 15:02:01 GMT -5
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Aug 31, 2013 15:19:49 GMT -5
[quote source="/post/17509/thread" I wouldn't get your hopes up on the MAAC finals [/quote] I have my dollar & a dream. Oh wait, that's not it. Hope is all I have. Without hope I may as well give up. I had hope the last 3 years and it finally paid off. We got Jimmy.
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