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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Nov 18, 2018 16:24:28 GMT -5
End Results:
No one going into this game being 2-1 would be anything but happy with the Saints.
Not many of us would be unhappy being 2-2 after 4 games.
Looking Inside the Numbers:
It tells a different story.
I don't quite know what Mayhem actually is vs. what it sounds like that it's supposed to be.
What I do know is that whether it's on the offensive side of the ball or defensive side of the ball, I dont see anything close to what I would associate the word Mayhem being about.
How many times are we running the ball down to the end of the shot clock?
How many times do we walk the ball up the court? Never see these guys in transition...ever.
Give it to Pickett and just let him go coach. Tell guys to fill lanes and find open spots. Even if they dont make the shots I have a feeling Pickett will make good decisions.
I do not see any urgency with the pace, or with the shot clock, or with the score?
On defense it is nothing more than a first trap and fall back into a zone. I see no commitment to actual any Mayhem on defense.
I have seen so many unguarded direct paths to the basket that have been passed up for the purpose of an extra pass out to the three. Crazy stupid!
Right now I hate to say it but other than being at .500, from a coaching perspective I am not seeing much of anything different than Mayhem being anything different than Jimmy/Mitch ball.
I like JC and his calm demeanor but hope Mayhem is actually different that what it looking like to be to date.
Otherwise we can expect many games in the ho-hum 50's and 60's.
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Nov 18, 2018 16:31:58 GMT -5
Post of the century!!!
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Nov 18, 2018 17:01:48 GMT -5
I see running the clock down and heaving a shot up is part of Mayhem and accepted now.
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Post by Tony on Nov 18, 2018 17:32:17 GMT -5
I have a very different take. Coach is doing everything he can to put Siena into position to win. I know some of you guys don’t want to hear this- I don’t want to bad mouth our current players but the truth is this team has very little talent. It lost its top 6 scorers from last year. We have one really good player in Pickett, a few good shooters and the rest are role players at BEST-- We are painfully slow for most part- do you really think Siena should be running it up the court and chucking up the shot- of course not. I’m sure coach doesn’t want to get it down to last few seconds but he is trying to control clock and get off a quality shot and limit possessions. Tip your hat to HC they played us well. For this team to be successful we have to shoot the ball well. We didn’t today and lost. This team will still be a tough out at home and fun to watch and root on. There will be games this year where Siena is on fire from 3 and wins games they have no business winning. But don’t fool yourself; this year is a rebuilding year. Jamion might have been left the least amount of talent as any Siena coach ever. But the future is bright—Pickett gets a year of experience this year, a year to get stronger, same for Sloan and Jimmy Ratliff, Manny get year of experience. We bring in Don Carey a ALL MAAC quality guard , bring back Kahlil Richard ( man we could have used him today) to play a Tay Fisher type role , bring in Shawn Walker – in fact I’ll go as far to say next year Siena will have among if not the best guards in MAAC. Bring in some quality size in Sutherland and Young and still have a ship to give.
For this year I’ll cheer our guys on for them to win they have to work really hard and again I’ll cheer them for that- sit back relax and enjoy the season
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indian82
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Post by indian82 on Nov 18, 2018 17:39:50 GMT -5
I have a very different take. Coach is doing everything he can to put Siena into position to win. I know some of you guys don’t want to hear this- I don’t want to bad mouth our current players but the truth is this team has very little talent. It lost its top 6 scorers from last year. We have one really good player in Pickett, a few good shooters and the rest are role players at BEST-- We are painfully slow for most part- do you really think Siena should be running it up the court and chucking up the shot- of course not. I’m sure coach doesn’t want to get it down to last few seconds but he is trying to control clock and get off a quality shot and limit possessions. Tip your hat to HC they played us well. For this team to be successful we have to shoot the ball well. We didn’t today and lost. This team will still be a tough out at home and fun to watch and root on. There will be games this year where Siena is on fire from 3 and wins games they have no business winning. But don’t fool yourself; this year is a rebuilding year. Jamion might have been left the least amount of talent as any Siena coach ever. But the future is bright—Pickett gets a year of experience this year, a year to get stronger, same for Sloan and Jimmy Ratliff, Manny get year of experience. We bring in Don Carey a ALL MAAC quality guard , bring back Kahlil Richard ( man we could have used him today) to play a Tay Fisher type role , bring in Shawn Walker – in fact I’ll go as far to say next year Siena will have among if not the best guards in MAAC. Bring in some quality size in Sutherland and Young and still have a ship to give. For this year I’ll cheer our guys on for them to win they have to work really hard and again I’ll cheer them for that- sit back relax and enjoy the season Great post, Tony! It is absolutely still a REBUILDING year! We won 8 games last year. EIGHT! And lost the top scorers. As many of us have said, this coach will maximize the strengths and grow the potential of the players he has. Be patient everybody and watch this team and coach grow and develop. With growth comes growing pains. This team needs support this year. I think you will see the benefits down the road.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Nov 18, 2018 19:37:10 GMT -5
End Results: No one going into this game being 2-1 would be anything but happy with the Saints. Not many of us would be unhappy being 2-2 after 4 games. Looking Inside the Numbers: It tells a different story. I don't quite know what Mayhem actually is vs. what it sounds like that it's supposed to be. What I do know is that whether it's on the offensive side of the ball or defensive side of the ball, I dont see anything close to what I would associate the word Mayhem being about. How many times are we running the ball down to the end of the shot clock? How many times do we walk the ball up the court? Never see these guys in transition...ever. Give it to Pickett and just let him go coach. Tell guys to fill lanes and find open spots. Even if they dont make the shots I have a feeling Pickett will make good decisions. I do not see any urgency with the pace, or with the shot clock, or with the score? On defense it is nothing more than a first trap and fall back into a zone. I see no commitment to actual any Mayhem on defense. I have seen so many unguarded direct paths to the basket that have been passed up for the purpose of an extra pass out to the three. Crazy stupid! Right now I hate to say it but other than being at .500, from a coaching perspective I am not seeing much of anything different than Mayhem being anything different than Jimmy/Mitch ball. I like JC and his calm demeanor but hope Mayhem is actually different that what it looking like to be to date. Otherwise we can expect many games in the ho-hum 50's and 60's. I’ll just cut to the chase, this post shows a complete lack of understanding of what’s going on given the roster’s composition. We’re 4 games in and played reasonably well vs Big East and A10 teams, had a nice comeback vs Norfolk and for the most part hung in with a very good HC squad. All in all 2-2 without a home game ain’t bad out of the gate. There’s gonna be a bunch of ups and downs as this year progresses get used to it or just tune out! If you can’t see this coach is light years ahead of Patsos you’re lost. Patsos with this roster is 0-4 and that’s a lock.
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Post by tcbaseball on Nov 18, 2018 20:35:47 GMT -5
End Results: No one going into this game being 2-1 would be anything but happy with the Saints. Not many of us would be unhappy being 2-2 after 4 games. Looking Inside the Numbers: It tells a different story. I don't quite know what Mayhem actually is vs. what it sounds like that it's supposed to be. What I do know is that whether it's on the offensive side of the ball or defensive side of the ball, I dont see anything close to what I would associate the word Mayhem being about. How many times are we running the ball down to the end of the shot clock? How many times do we walk the ball up the court? Never see these guys in transition...ever. Give it to Pickett and just let him go coach. Tell guys to fill lanes and find open spots. Even if they dont make the shots I have a feeling Pickett will make good decisions. I do not see any urgency with the pace, or with the shot clock, or with the score? On defense it is nothing more than a first trap and fall back into a zone. I see no commitment to actual any Mayhem on defense. I have seen so many unguarded direct paths to the basket that have been passed up for the purpose of an extra pass out to the three. Crazy stupid! Right now I hate to say it but other than being at .500, from a coaching perspective I am not seeing much of anything different than Mayhem being anything different than Jimmy/Mitch ball. I like JC and his calm demeanor but hope Mayhem is actually different that what it looking like to be to date. Otherwise we can expect many games in the ho-hum 50's and 60's. I understand that the definition of mayhem is not totally what your seeing on the court right now.... BUT you can see the beginning of the mayhem. I see a team that is defending much better then we've seen in years. Guys moving around more on offense. Seems like we already have better shooters throughout the lineup not just one or two, IMO. Very important to keep in mind, JC is just beginning to install his style of game. IMO, you need faster players to do what he wants to do. While some of the players are not as athletic as you need for the style he wants to run, those players are playing hard. I've already watched more games then i did all of last year... lol
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Nov 18, 2018 20:39:53 GMT -5
I have a very different take. Coach is doing everything he can to put Siena into position to win. I know some of you guys don’t want to hear this- I don’t want to bad mouth our current players but the truth is this team has very little talent. It lost its top 6 scorers from last year. We have one really good player in Pickett, a few good shooters and the rest are role players at BEST-- We are painfully slow for most part- do you really think Siena should be running it up the court and chucking up the shot- of course not. I’m sure coach doesn’t want to get it down to last few seconds but he is trying to control clock and get off a quality shot and limit possessions. Tip your hat to HC they played us well. For this team to be successful we have to shoot the ball well. We didn’t today and lost. This team will still be a tough out at home and fun to watch and root on. There will be games this year where Siena is on fire from 3 and wins games they have no business winning. But don’t fool yourself; this year is a rebuilding year. Jamion might have been left the least amount of talent as any Siena coach ever. But the future is bright—Pickett gets a year of experience this year, a year to get stronger, same for Sloan and Jimmy Ratliff, Manny get year of experience. We bring in Don Carey a ALL MAAC quality guard , bring back Kahlil Richard ( man we could have used him today) to play a Tay Fisher type role , bring in Shawn Walker – in fact I’ll go as far to say next year Siena will have among if not the best guards in MAAC. Bring in some quality size in Sutherland and Young and still have a ship to give. For this year I’ll cheer our guys on for them to win they have to work really hard and again I’ll cheer them for that- sit back relax and enjoy the season THIS is the Speech of the Century!! At least for any basketball fans that have any intelligence when it pertains to general logic and basketball. Only a moron, or a troll, would think that JC is going to be able to implement his system in it's entirety this year! Why don't we address this subject by the middle of next season and see if you have a legitimate "bitch" at that time!
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Post by MTS on Nov 18, 2018 20:51:01 GMT -5
Tony is right on the money. Jamion took over a mess. He won't say it because he's a positive guy but we all know the deal. The talent level he inherited is way lower than Hewitt, McCaffery or Patsos had when they were hired. It's probably not even close either.
So far this year Siena has already won more games away from home and won back-to-back games something they did not do last year. We also do not foul and turn the ball over two things we did like clockwork last year. So we know Jamion and staff can coach. They have a winning system but there's only so much you can do with the pieces you have.
I get that the grind it out games in the 60's aren't appealing but that gives us the best chance to win games this season. We simply don't have the horses to run and gun.
Today was ugly but we knew there was going to be games like those. We will see more too this year. The foundation is being built. But Siena is going in the right direction no question about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 6:22:00 GMT -5
There has not been a college basketball coach that hasn't stated "Our shots weren't falling" following an ugly game; win or loss. I've seen all four of our games and "ugly" is not a term I would use in describing any of them. The JC system has instilled so many improvements when compared to what we had grown accustomed to over the last too many years. One thing that hasn't been highlighted is our spacing and play off the ball - no one is standing still - it's high energy, effort and adherence to the game plan. The Lehigh game will be a tough one, they all will be but I think the "lessons learned" from the HC loss, coupled with this staff's combined coaching skill, will make it an even tougher game for the Hawks...
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Nov 19, 2018 7:51:56 GMT -5
As I said the end results are fine. I am not here saying to fire the guy so stop getting your panties all scrunched up in a bunch ladies.
But style of play is style of play. If your going to promote and market a style of play as you obviously are/have been doing since pre-day one on the job with Mayhem, then you better actually play that style of play...starting on Day 1.
And that's regardless of who you have on the roster. Including 5 of them being your own recruits including three who are major contributors minutes wise. Does that mean you just waste these 5 guys freshmen season because the roster as a whole does not yet fit the system?
No. That would be crazy stupid if you did. You play Mayhem Day 1 just as you would Day 501 and hopefully by Day 100 you begin to get better at it.
I would rather be 0-4 than 2-2 playing Mayhem as it was "marketed" to be and not as I am currently seeing it to be.
If I am honest. If many of you are honest. Right now Mayhem on both sides of the ball is absolutely nothing different than recent past years style of play other than one single category....and that is shooting the 3. Nothing.
As far as their half court defense goes I have seen nothing that much different.
Whether out of necessity or not, he is playing guys more minutes who should have been playing more with Patsos.
Mayhem to me would be more closely associated with what Fran was doing with his half court trapping than putting a single full court trap on a guy and then laying off as Patsos consistently did.
I like the guy. I like the end results so far. But I am not yet sold on him as being what I thought it would be from Day 1.
I hope we see change and the growth in Mayhem but haven't seen much of anything different to date in style of play between last years team and this years team.
But like Mitch sold us a false bill of goods saying that he was going to be an up tempo coach and Patsos sold us a false bill of goods in saying he was going to be a full court trapping up tempo team, I just hope Mayhem is not just another false bill of goods more used as a marketing ploy than much of being any actual Mayhem itself.
Because if what we have seen to date is what is being considered as being actual Mayhem then these guys went through alot of preseason hoopla of getting ready for a Mayhem that is more there in word than it is there in action.
Go Saints!
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Post by marshotel on Nov 19, 2018 8:51:56 GMT -5
Caught both games this weekend. It was a great time at the games and the local casino properties. It really is amazing how much there is to do at these places, fun to be had everywhere you went.
I truly believe the program is in a better place, much of that sentiment has to do with the recruiting effort. On court play improved in some areas as well.
However, I agree with the OP. I walked away from the weekend trying to understand where the mayhem was and left a bit under-impressed. I realize there is more to mayhem that what is on the court for us to see, but as advertised it didn't deliver.
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SIENA1971
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Post by SIENA1971 on Nov 19, 2018 9:29:23 GMT -5
This game exposed the weaknesses ... we will now see how good a coach JC is going forward... again team is a work in progress- key word being progress ... fans with realistic expectations probably are feeling pretty good right now
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Post by greenblood on Nov 19, 2018 9:52:45 GMT -5
As I said the end results are fine. I am not here saying to fire the guy so stop getting your panties all scrunched up in a bunch ladies. But style of play is style of play. If your going to promote and market a style of play as you obviously are/have been doing since pre-day one on the job with Mayhem, then you better actually play that style of play...starting on Day 1. And that's regardless of who you have on the roster. Including 5 of them being your own recruits including three who are major contributors minutes wise. Does that mean you just waste these 5 guys freshmen season because the roster as a whole does not yet fit the system? No. That would be crazy stupid if you did. You play Mayhem Day 1 just as you would Day 501 and hopefully by Day 100 you begin to get better at it. I would rather be 0-4 than 2-2 playing Mayhem as it was "marketed" to be and not as I am currently seeing it to be. If I am honest. If many of you are honest. Right now Mayhem on both sides of the ball is absolutely nothing different than recent past years style of play other than one single category....and that is shooting the 3. Nothing. As far as their half court defense goes I have seen nothing that much different. Whether out of necessity or not, he is playing guys more minutes who should have been playing more with Patsos. Mayhem to me would be more closely associated with what Fran was doing with his half court trapping than putting a single full court trap on a guy and then laying off as Patsos consistently did. I like the guy. I like the end results so far. But I am not yet sold on him as being what I thought it would be from Day 1. I hope we see change and the growth in Mayhem but haven't seen much of anything different to date in style of play between last years team and this years team. But like Mitch sold us a false bill of goods saying that he was going to be an up tempo coach and Patsos sold us a false bill of goods in saying he was going to be a full court trapping up tempo team, I just hope Mayhem is not just another false bill of goods more used as a marketing ploy than much of being any actual Mayhem itself. Because if what we have seen to date is what is being considered as being actual Mayhem then these guys went through alot of preseason hoopla of getting ready for a Mayhem that is more there in word than it is there in action. Go Saints! 1. I resent the 'panties all scrunched up in a bunch' analogy. I have known many men, especially here who get their NUTS IN A KNOT 2. Mayhem does not mean run around like a chicken with your head cut off. In fact, it may mean slowing the game down to try to take a team out of sorts that is much more athletic than you are. 3. The players are in better shape than ever...and there is a team cohesiveness that I haven't seen since Steven Cruz left. That said if your stable isn't loaded up with some high caliber stakes horses, you aren't going to the Breeder's Cup. Capice?
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Nov 19, 2018 10:54:38 GMT -5
I agree that “mayhem” might not be what it sounds like. Yet I still go back to the previousresults. When you consider the record, championships won at msm and the schedule (guarantee games) along with the brief sample size here I’m encouraged. If mayhem means not fouling or giving the offense free possessions, and championships ensue, then bring on the mayhem. I’m sure even dean winters would approve.
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