CellarRat
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Post by CellarRat on Mar 30, 2018 16:20:17 GMT -5
Sad... Sitting back watching the spectacle Siena basketball has become once on the brink of becoming an elite mid-major and now hovering around a RPI in the 300 range and one of the weaker programs in the country. The administration squandered a golden opportunity with not 1 but 2 foolish hires and a horrid amateurish contract. What are you gonna do at this point but just wait and see what happens. The admins done about all the damage they could possibly do ... only place to go from here is up ... hopefully! You mean three foolish hires! I’ve said it before, with the extensions given to JP, the administration essentially hired him twice!
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Mar 30, 2018 16:24:20 GMT -5
And while the apologists continue to point fingers some of us called it every step of the way.... sad. 💀
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2018 18:35:49 GMT -5
I agree with you Tony, but there are likely just as many of us that are sick of reading that all it will take is an impact recruit to morph So-so into Coach K - Oduro was billed and given time as an impact player and the overall impact was "Thud" ... We all saw Nico as an impact player for brief interludes - his impact was heard as the door slammed on his rump leaving the ARC and taking any hope of a decent season with him - I guess you could say he had an impact on So-so but unfortunately, it was a so-so impact... C’mon MP- who is saying we only need 1 impact player- pretty sure the consensus is we need at least two impact players that are preferably above avg athletically. And don’t tell me the troll, you guys bite on his stupid posts all the time. We have a few misguided souls that think the team had plenty of talent and only the head coach held them back. My guess is JP could sign Welch and Timberlake ( it’s not going to happen) but if he did you guys would still complain. For most part everyone on board realizes Siena needs a new head coach- even HJ thinks so, although he thinks JP should be paid in full. If Siena chooses to do nothing due to financial considerations – then Siena is saying a big FU to you ( and me) . My point was - So-so couldn't coach the Duke team to better than .50001 - One impact player, two, three - who gives a rat's ass - without a competent STAFF of four coaches that ALL know ALL aspects re PLAYING the freakin' game So-so won't win with anyone, game in and game out - he gets out coached some times in both games vs the same opponent, for sure once as the other COACH makes adjustments (or reads the TU to see what version of same old same old TWO - motion), and ALWAYS in the second half - great to be optimistic about new recruits but I'm beyond skeptical - sorry, I call it like I've seen it too damn many times with this joker...we don't even have a starting lineup until after the last game in the "All about the MAAC" - I want a Siena COACH who's all about winning and then moving on to a better job - only formula that works at our level - and, I don't buy one scintilla of shit that Papi pukes...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2018 18:39:23 GMT -5
I agree with you Tony, but there are likely just as many of us that are sick of reading that all it will take is an impact recruit to morph So-so into Coach K - Oduro was billed and given time as an impact player and the overall impact was "Thud" ... We all saw Nico as an impact player for brief interludes - his impact was heard as the door slammed on his rump leaving the ARC and taking any hope of a decent season with him - I guess you could say he had an impact on So-so but unfortunately, it was a so-so impact... Not every recruit is created equal. The problems with offensive efficiency with Oduro were known before he played his first game. Just not by everyone...or Jimmy. They were in the available #s and FIBA stats...etc etc. How many times last preseason did I compare him to Anosike for his style of scoring, lack of shotblocking, and FT shooting but say he might not rebound as well? So many. Nico had his own PPS issues already before the season and those were known. Where he failed was not improving or ever realizing his potential due to court smarts and shot selection....which...it was known since high school that he struggled with. Horn and Richard were known to be shooters who struggled on D. Fisher was known to struggle on D. Penn was exactly what he was on paper in HS. We hoped he'd improve on his assists but that was wishful thinking. He was same exact guy he was supposed to be on paper. These guys' talents aren't as big of surprises as some make them out to be. Honestly, when compared with what we thought they were coming out of highschool, I have not really seen too many surprises out of this group aside from maybe Oduro rebounding more poorly than expected. They've kind of individually done what you'd expect. It's just Jimmy often struggles with managing them and also should have filled some weaknesses in building the roster that, on paper, anyone who studied these players strengths and weaknesses should have seen coming. Last year's defense was always most dependent on Penn, Smithen, Clareth, and Camper. We knew that before the season. Clareth left. Penn got injured. Smithen was jerked around. And Camper never played. Last year's offense was mismanaged the most because the immediate inefficiences with Oduro that were ALWAYS there before were made a focus instead of de-emphasized. Saying that potentially all-around guys like Timberlake and Welch who defend, rebound, score, and shoot FTs at a high clip is the same thing as Oduro...well...is just not NEARLY the same thing. Recruits aren't nearly the surprises people often make them out to be. There's much room for surprise and disappointment for sure but not so much that you can just dismiss known tangible proven abilities/skillsets. Defenders can usually defend. Shooters can usually shoot etc.. Getting these 2 guys could very likely be a game changer. Guys with 4 or 5 tool potential have a historically proven tendency to make coaches look good no matter what they do from that point on. C'mon KK, I can't even read this drivel beyond the first sentence. You ADMIT So-so was unable to properly evaluate, develop and utilize Oduro WITH THE OTHER 12+ players he had to begin the year and now we are all supposed to step back and ASSUME he'll do better with the next batch of recruits - Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, SHAME ON ME...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2018 19:08:19 GMT -5
Not every recruit is created equal. The problems with offensive efficiency with Oduro were known before he played his first game. Just not by everyone...or Jimmy. They were in the available #s and FIBA stats...etc etc. How many times last preseason did I compare him to Anosike for his style of scoring, lack of shotblocking, and FT shooting but say he might not rebound as well? So many. Nico had his own PPS issues already before the season and those were known. Where he failed was not improving or ever realizing his potential due to court smarts and shot selection....which...it was known since high school that he struggled with. Horn and Richard were known to be shooters who struggled on D. Fisher was known to struggle on D. Penn was exactly what he was on paper in HS. We hoped he'd improve on his assists but that was wishful thinking. He was same exact guy he was supposed to be on paper. These guys' talents aren't as big of surprises as some make them out to be. Honestly, when compared with what we thought they were coming out of highschool, I have not really seen too many surprises out of this group aside from maybe Oduro rebounding more poorly than expected. They've kind of individually done what you'd expect. It's just Jimmy often struggles with managing them and also should have filled some weaknesses in building the roster that, on paper, anyone who studied these players strengths and weaknesses should have seen coming. Last year's defense was always most dependent on Penn, Smithen, Clareth, and Camper. We knew that before the season. Clareth left. Penn got injured. Smithen was jerked around. And Camper never played. Last year's offense was mismanaged the most because the immediate inefficiences with Oduro that were ALWAYS there before were made a focus instead of de-emphasized. Saying that potentially all-around guys like Timberlake and Welch who defend, rebound, score, and shoot FTs at a high clip is the same thing as Oduro...well...is just not NEARLY the same thing. Recruits aren't nearly the surprises people often make them out to be. There's much room for surprise and disappointment for sure but not so much that you can just dismiss known tangible proven abilities/skillsets. Defenders can usually defend. Shooters can usually shoot etc.. Getting these 2 guys could very likely be a game changer. Guys with 4 or 5 tool potential have a historically proven tendency to make coaches look good no matter what they do from that point on. C'mon KK, I can't even read this drivel beyond the first sentence. You ADMIT So-so was unable to properly evaluate, develop and utilize Oduro WITH THE OTHER 12+ players he had to begin the year and now we are all supposed to step back and ASSUME he'll do better with the next batch of recruits - Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, SHAME ON ME... Sorry, I forgot my audience. How about this: Really good player make ok coach look better. You not understand difference, you crazy. How's that? Too many syllables?
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gorvy
Associate Head Coach
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Post by gorvy on Mar 30, 2018 19:12:17 GMT -5
I just can’t wait until the logjam comments.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2018 19:15:08 GMT -5
I just can’t wait until the logjam comments. It already exists....with 3 shooters who can't defend and 4 bigs who can't defend. Jimmy recruited too many guys with no D. Recruiting 2 big wings WITH D who can also score = Good.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Mar 30, 2018 19:20:09 GMT -5
I just can’t wait until the logjam comments. It already exists....with 3 shooters who can't defend and 4 bigs who can't defend. Jimmy recruited too many guys with no D. Recruiting 2 big wings WITH D who can also score = Good. Lol. The logjam comments on here usually refer to having so many great players at a particular position that one player is going to have to transfer to a higher level program.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2018 19:34:56 GMT -5
C'mon KK, I can't even read this drivel beyond the first sentence. You ADMIT So-so was unable to properly evaluate, develop and utilize Oduro WITH THE OTHER 12+ players he had to begin the year and now we are all supposed to step back and ASSUME he'll do better with the next batch of recruits - Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, SHAME ON ME... Sorry, I forgot my audience. How about this: Really good player make ok coach look better. You not understand difference, you crazy. How's that? Too many syllables? We can agree to disagree - keeping it in as few syllables as possible - 9 and 23 is better than 8 and 24 - even a stat geek like yourself can fathom that - oops - fathom might be a stretch for you - get is probably a better word - only one syllable
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2018 19:39:28 GMT -5
Sorry, I forgot my audience. How about this: Really good player make ok coach look better. You not understand difference, you crazy. How's that? Too many syllables? We can agree to disagree - keeping it in as few syllables as possible - 9 and 23 is better than 8 and 24 - even a stat geek like yourself can fathom that - oops - fathom might be a stretch for you - get is probably a better word - only one syllable How do you not understand that even a bad coach can win with good players? Hell, even Mitch B. won a MAAC title at FF. Why are you being such a dick about it?
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Mar 30, 2018 19:43:59 GMT -5
We can agree to disagree - keeping it in as few syllables as possible - 9 and 23 is better than 8 and 24 - even a stat geek like yourself can fathom that - oops - fathom might be a stretch for you - get is probably a better word - only one syllable How do you not understand that even a bad coach can win with good players? Hell, even Mitch B. won a MAAC title at FF. Why are you being such a dick about it? . Because he will always underachieve with the players he has. Whether it’s during a 8-24 season or a 24-8 season. The hope was he was going to recruit so well that he would mask that deficiency, then he went on a charitable giving and vacation spree.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2018 19:53:53 GMT -5
How do you not understand that even a bad coach can win with good players? Hell, even Mitch B. won a MAAC title at FF. Why are you being such a dick about it? . Because he will always underachieve with the players he has. Whether it’s during a 8-24 season or a 24-8 season. The hope was he was going to recruit so well that he would mask that deficiency, then he went on a charitable giving and vacation spree. Well DUH. But would you rather be 24-8 and underachieving or 8-24 and underachieving. I think I'd pick the former, maybe. I'm sorry for having my little sliver of hope for getting what could potentially be 2 of the better recruits we've had in the program. I'd rather have these potentially all-around players IN the program than not in the program. I think Timberlake, especially, could be a game changer for whatever team gets him. I don't want these guys to be the next Damien Lee, Maodo Lo, and Chavauhn Lewis' that I have to lament for the next decade because this program was too stupid and looked the other way when it mattered most...again.
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Mar 31, 2018 1:49:41 GMT -5
We can agree to disagree - keeping it in as few syllables as possible - 9 and 23 is better than 8 and 24 - even a stat geek like yourself can fathom that - oops - fathom might be a stretch for you - get is probably a better word - only one syllable How do you not understand that even a bad coach can win with good players? Hell, even Mitch B. won a MAAC title at FF. Why are you being such a dick about it? My friend, I give you a lot of credit! You keep trying to be a voice of reason in this sh__y debacle but unfortunately you and Tony are wasting your time and energy. These guys get off by making this nightmare we've all been living even worse. It's been like torture living through these games and than having to read the same things from the same four or five people over and over and over. (and over) On behalf of all the other suffering Siena fans that have suffered along with you, including the ones that are now gone, thank you for helping make this season unbearable. I'm going to stop reading this for a while. I would like to personally thank Tony for everything including his patience. I hope I can meet you personally some day in better times. GO SAINTS!!!
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Post by Tony on Mar 31, 2018 3:52:43 GMT -5
MP I moved these posts- please keep your venom out of the recruiting thread- yes we all understand you hate this coach- you keep coming up with new and exciting ways to express your hate- if its not recruiting related keep it out of recruiting thread
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Mar 31, 2018 7:00:58 GMT -5
How do you not understand that even a bad coach can win with good players? Hell, even Mitch B. won a MAAC title at FF. Why are you being such a dick about it? My friend, I give you a lot of credit! You keep trying to be a voice of reason in this sh__y debacle but unfortunately you and Tony are wasting your time and energy. These guys get off by making this nightmare we've all been living even worse. It's been like torture living through these games and than having to read the same things from the same four or five people over and over and over. (and over) On behalf of all the other suffering Siena fans that have suffered along with you, including the ones that are now gone, thank you for helping make this season unbearable. I'm going to stop reading this for a while. I would like to personally thank Tony for everything including his patience. I hope I can meet you personally some day in better times. GO SAINTS!!! Good idea just stay off the board until 4/1/2021.
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