hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Jan 25, 2018 11:15:32 GMT -5
The transfers pretty much show level this head coach has been recruiting at. For all of you that got upset with me when I kept harping on fact Jimmy was recruiting low D1/D2 level the transfer list pretty much verifies it. This is So-so's biggest issue right now, he has been exposed in his recruiting and he has always been a mediocre X and o coach- lousy (lazy) recruiter and mediocre coach, add it all up and you get horrible record team has now- with really no relief in sight Well said Tony. Agree with you 100% on this one. Many on here blame the JP coaching ability and think that the current roster has talent and would be greatly improved under another coach. Looking at the results of those who transferred and played elsewhere for other coaches, talent or lack their of is the most contributing factor to the current state of the Saints. Combine that with .500 career coach and you get what you get. Maybe JP is a .500 coach because of the poor recruiting, lack of attracting and retaining quality talent more so than his x's and o's coaching ability? In the end it is all inter related.
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Post by greenblood on Jan 25, 2018 11:44:40 GMT -5
Agree, it is both recruiting and coaching, IMHO. Why is it so acceptable for a coach making six figures to just sweep out his recruiting 'errors' at this torrid pace?
Game prep and in-game adjustments speaks volumes....both are also inadequate.
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 25, 2018 12:54:56 GMT -5
Agree, it is both recruiting and coaching, IMHO. Why is it so acceptable for a coach making six figures to just sweep out his recruiting 'errors' at this torrid pace? Game prep and in-game adjustments speaks volumes....both are also inadequate. we have the WORST possible scenario...........someone who is really not a sound coach plus a mediocre recruiter..........that spells a disaster, and the results are clearly what we are seeing during his tenure................
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Post by MTS on Jan 25, 2018 14:46:39 GMT -5
The transfers pretty much show level this head coach has been recruiting at. For all of you that got upset with me when I kept harping on fact Jimmy was recruiting low D1/D2 level the transfer list pretty much verifies it. This is So-so's biggest issue right now, he has been exposed in his recruiting and he has always been a mediocre X and o coach- lousy (lazy) recruiter and mediocre coach, add it all up and you get horrible record team has now- with really no relief in sight Well said Tony. Agree with you 100% on this one. Many on here blame the JP coaching ability and think that the current roster has talent and would be greatly improved under another coach. Looking at the results of those who transferred and played elsewhere for other coaches, talent or lack their of is the most contributing factor to the current state of the Saints. Combine that with .500 career coach and you get what you get. Maybe JP is a .500 coach because of the poor recruiting, lack of attracting and retaining quality talent more so than his x's and o's coaching ability? In the end it is all inter related. The game is 80% recruiting and 20% X's/O's - Unless you're an unbelievable schemer (obviously JP is not) you need big time talent to win. And even if you're great at X/O only going so far if you don't have elite talent.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 14:55:15 GMT -5
Well said Tony. Agree with you 100% on this one. Many on here blame the JP coaching ability and think that the current roster has talent and would be greatly improved under another coach. Looking at the results of those who transferred and played elsewhere for other coaches, talent or lack their of is the most contributing factor to the current state of the Saints. Combine that with .500 career coach and you get what you get. Maybe JP is a .500 coach because of the poor recruiting, lack of attracting and retaining quality talent more so than his x's and o's coaching ability? In the end it is all inter related. The game is 80% recruiting and 20% X's/O's - Unless you're an unbelievable schemer (obviously JP is not) you need big time talent to win. And even if you're great at X/O only going so far if you don't have elite talent. Think your %'s are way off. Look at a guy like Brad Stevens and what he did at Butler. He took largely mid-major players and turned them into a championship caliber team. If you think guys like Willie Veasley, Zach Hahn, Ronald Nored, Chase Stigall etc..were superstars...you'd be wrong. Brad Stevens was the most valuable guy on that team even the 2 years they had Gordon Hayward. He made decisions that won games for them. He knew his opponents better than they knew themselves.
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Post by greengold4ever on Jan 25, 2018 15:01:23 GMT -5
The game is 80% recruiting and 20% X's/O's - Unless you're an unbelievable schemer (obviously JP is not) you need big time talent to win. And even if you're great at X/O only going so far if you don't have elite talent. Think your %'s are way off. Look at a guy like Brad Stevens and what he did at Butler. He took largely mid-major players and turned them into a championship caliber team. If you think guys like Willie Veasley, Zach Hahn, Ronald Nored, Chase Stigall etc..were superstars...you'd be wrong. Brad Stevens was the most valuable guy on that team even the 2 years they had Gordon Hayward. He made decisions that won games for them. He knew his opponents better than they knew themselves. the GREAT John Wooden was quoted as saying the college game is ALL about coaching while the NBA is ALL about the players..............
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 15:14:56 GMT -5
Think your %'s are way off. Look at a guy like Brad Stevens and what he did at Butler. He took largely mid-major players and turned them into a championship caliber team. If you think guys like Willie Veasley, Zach Hahn, Ronald Nored, Chase Stigall etc..were superstars...you'd be wrong. Brad Stevens was the most valuable guy on that team even the 2 years they had Gordon Hayward. He made decisions that won games for them. He knew his opponents better than they knew themselves. the GREAT John Wooden was quoted as saying the college game is ALL about coaching while the NBA is ALL about the players.............. I guess you could say our guy took a shot at coming out in the middle of both - sort of so-so......and he also added in its ALL about the MAAC - dilution pollution....
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Jan 25, 2018 17:38:05 GMT -5
Think your %'s are way off. Look at a guy like Brad Stevens and what he did at Butler. He took largely mid-major players and turned them into a championship caliber team. If you think guys like Willie Veasley, Zach Hahn, Ronald Nored, Chase Stigall etc..were superstars...you'd be wrong. Brad Stevens was the most valuable guy on that team even the 2 years they had Gordon Hayward. He made decisions that won games for them. He knew his opponents better than they knew themselves. the GREAT John Wooden was quoted as saying the college game is ALL about coaching while the NBA is ALL about the players.............. Stevens actually had 2 current NBA players on his teams during the Butler glory days, Hayward and Shelvin Mack. As Danny Hurley recently was quoted: "Good coaches have good players and great coaches have great players". You need talent to win.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 17:39:58 GMT -5
the GREAT John Wooden was quoted as saying the college game is ALL about coaching while the NBA is ALL about the players.............. Stevens actually had 2 current NBA players on his teams during the Butler glory days, Hayward and Shelvin Mack. As Danny Hurley recently was quoted: "Good coaches have good players and great coaches have great players". You need talent to win. Perhaps Mack got into the NBA because of Stevens
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Post by MTS on Jan 25, 2018 21:27:35 GMT -5
The game is 80% recruiting and 20% X's/O's - Unless you're an unbelievable schemer (obviously JP is not) you need big time talent to win. And even if you're great at X/O only going so far if you don't have elite talent. Think your %'s are way off. Look at a guy like Brad Stevens and what he did at Butler. He took largely mid-major players and turned them into a championship caliber team. If you think guys like Willie Veasley, Zach Hahn, Ronald Nored, Chase Stigall etc..were superstars...you'd be wrong. Brad Stevens was the most valuable guy on that team even the 2 years they had Gordon Hayward. He made decisions that won games for them. He knew his opponents better than they knew themselves. Brad Stevens is a wizard. How many mid-major guys jump to the NBA? Plus he had really good players. The team that almost beat Duke had a lottery pick on it (Heyward). He was an outstanding bench coach but he did not win with a bunch of crap - Butler had a ton of talent that was experienced.
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hoopdad
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Post by hoopdad on Jan 25, 2018 21:32:34 GMT -5
Stevens actually had 2 current NBA players on his teams during the Butler glory days, Hayward and Shelvin Mack. As Danny Hurley recently was quoted: "Good coaches have good players and great coaches have great players". You need talent to win. Perhaps Mack got into the NBA because of Stevens Perhaps Stevens got into the NBA because of Hayward and Mack?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2018 12:30:36 GMT -5
Perhaps Mack got into the NBA because of Stevens Perhaps Stevens got into the NBA because of Hayward and Mack? Perhaps both Hayward and Mack got there because Stevens put a system in place that got them to a stage whereby they could showcase their talents in front of a national audience? Mack isn't really doing that much in the NBA...not enough to warrant being the lone NBA player on a team that went to the championship game. He's a career backup. Remember, Hayward had already left for the NBA before the 2nd championship game run. He wasn't even on that team. And Stevens took a team with a negative assist ratio after all these guys had left to the round of 32. Stevens is evolving into potentially one of the best coaches of all-time. He helps make players' careers.
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Post by sienafan1480 on Jan 26, 2018 12:50:39 GMT -5
Perhaps Stevens got into the NBA because of Hayward and Mack? Perhaps both Hayward and Mack got there because Stevens put a system in place that got them to a stage whereby they could showcase their talents in front of a national audience? Mack isn't really doing that much in the NBA...not enough to warrant being the lone NBA player on a team that went to the championship game. He's a career backup. Remember, Hayward had already left for the NBA before the 2nd championship game run. He wasn't even on that team. And Stevens took a team with a negative assist ratio after all these guys had left to the round of 32. Stevens is evolving into potentially one of the best coaches of all-time. He helps make players' careers. Shelvin Mack leads the NBA in assist to turnover ratio!! What is the world coming to when KK criticizes that! (Just joking KK, you are the best poster on the board)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2018 12:56:11 GMT -5
I look at Brad Stevens as the coaching ideal.
Calm, collected, competitive, analytical, positive reinforcer, humble, and charismatic.
I'd say that 10 games a year were won by him for Butler. He was their best 'player'.
He knows the stats, he knows the tendencies, and he knows how get his teams to work it to their advantage.
All those points that I feel Jimmy loses for us just on decision making...a guy like Stevens doesn't. He generally wins the 'coaching margin' most games. He's like a 6th man that's always on the court.
Jimmy interprets this as he should actually be standing on the court.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2018 13:03:19 GMT -5
Perhaps both Hayward and Mack got there because Stevens put a system in place that got them to a stage whereby they could showcase their talents in front of a national audience? Mack isn't really doing that much in the NBA...not enough to warrant being the lone NBA player on a team that went to the championship game. He's a career backup. Remember, Hayward had already left for the NBA before the 2nd championship game run. He wasn't even on that team. And Stevens took a team with a negative assist ratio after all these guys had left to the round of 32. Stevens is evolving into potentially one of the best coaches of all-time. He helps make players' careers. Shelvin Mack leads the NBA in assist to turnover ratio!! What is the world coming to when KK criticizes that! (Just joking KK, you are the best poster on the board) Ha, technically Marvin Prochet leads the MAAC in A/TO by the way.
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