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Post by SaintsFan on Sept 5, 2017 14:06:10 GMT -5
According to the experts on here that's all we should be asking for. Gee, because it's totally unacceptable to be a midpack team with 3 freshmen either starting or playing significant minutes and replacing 4 seniors who scored 1,000 points. Last year was a disappointment, without a doubt. It also doesn't change what expectations should be for this year. Even if we had won 25 games and went dancing, I'd still be sitting here saying we should be a mid pack team, maybe cracking the top 3 if things come together right. Most of the time when you lose the amount of production we do you are in for a bottom 4 finish in your conference. Freshmen and sophomores don't win you conference championships. When you play young guys, you take the good with the bad and hope they develop into starting/all league level guys. That's what we did in JP1, played a bunch of freshmen & Sophomores plus Poole & Hymes, finished 5th, and had the great postseason run in front of our home fans. That's basically what we have this year, swapping Poole and Hymes for Nico and Fisher. Maybe we wind up 3rd or 4th because the MAAC is a bit weaker, but this shouldn't be a target year to go to the NCAA Tournament. No one should go into next season hoping for midpack, when all meaningful contributors will be returning from a team that (hopefully) competed well this season. But this is a rebuilding year, and its how pretty much everyone in college basketball (except for programs with the ability to either recruit 4 & 5 star talent or can bring in 2-3 experienced D1 players every season) deals with It. funny to watch nearly the same exact situation play out... not much talent on the team. recruiting bringing in a bunch of mediocre freshman to play meaningful minutes. By the time its over for this batch, Siena MAY pop up all the way to number 3 or 4 in the league and then rinse / repeat.
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rickyp
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Post by rickyp on Sept 5, 2017 14:15:12 GMT -5
Ooh that was a different way of putting it didn't think of mediocre and not much talent missed that one.So when we miss out on recruits with other mid majors it's bad recruiting but when we have recruits who choose our school with mid major offers and some higher interest there mediocre ooh yeah i get it known.π
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 14:24:36 GMT -5
Ooh no your wrong we wouldn't be in this predicament if people weren't taking vacations during dead recruiting periods and losing recruits to Vermont and players weren't transferring that probably wasn't going to play here anyways and the coaching staff wasn't losing out on all these recruits and we had senior leadership we'd be fighting for a top three finish with teams that were in the bottom of the league who didn't lose seniors 4 1000pt scorers if Fran was here this wouldn't be Going onπ₯. Okay I've given all the reason for your guys that's going to say that so you don't have to post it then we move on Go Saints Hot dang man, use an occasional period and comma.
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rickyp
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Post by rickyp on Sept 5, 2017 14:42:51 GMT -5
Can't graduated from ECPI but I'll try
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Sept 5, 2017 14:50:33 GMT -5
Now that I'm not paying thousands, or even hundreds, of dollars for season tickets it doesn't bother me as much. I'm not even expecting mid pack this season but wouldn't be surprised if they finished anywhere from 4-7. When the program wants to become serious again it knows what it has to do.
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Sept 5, 2017 21:30:48 GMT -5
Since this discussion seems to have turned back once again to recruiting, this would be my one question to our administration concerning the recruiting wars?
Why are we not using our "program" past and "opportunity" future to sell our program to top notch athletes from both the high mid major high school recruits catagory and the disgruntled power five transfer athlete catagory?
Good or bad, all the talk always seems to be about Patsos when it should revolve more around the program.
Forget everything else.
The "administration" should "require" that at least 80% of our recruiting efforts should come from competitive recruiting situations where we "expect" that at least 20% of our recruits to come from this pool of recruits.
Thr primarily sell should be on the benefits of playing for the "program" at Siena and not it be all about what coaches are here at any given time.
Obviously coaches are a huge part of recruitment but all of our coaches should be told its "mandatory" to sell the programs following benefits as much as they are selling themselves and their relationships and style of coaching/playing:
1) The game time facility including the locker room is second to none in the northeast at the mid major level and above avg. vs. many power conference schools as well. 2) The local fan base at a low year of some 5000-6000 fans a game, is second to none at the mid major level in the northeast and above avg. vs. many power conference schools as well.
3) The local exposure and media attention ( including the televising of games) to the program and it's players is second to none in the northeast at the mid major level and above avg. vs. many power conference schools as well.
4) The school is one of the most centrally located campuses to "all" of the major urban markets in the basketball talent rich northeast, thus making it very easy for family and friends to attend all home games, including mid week games.
All four of these are huge, huge program benefits that other schools just don't have. We should be hammering these points home time after time after time, conversation after conversation.
None of these benefits have anything to do with any current coaches.
Based on these four benefits, the expectations for Siena on any given year, every year, should be winning the MAAC.
All talk "every year" should be focusing on the "expectations" on winning the MAAC every year, regardless of where you finished the previous year.
Every year the administration should work on attaining the absolute toughest non conference schedule possible; every single year.
This is the mentality you need from the administration to build a consistently successful program where post season becomes the norm, not the surprise.
Until they follow this path, the Siena program will continue to fluctuate in a constant state of accepted mediocrity. Lost opportunity after lost opportunity after lost opportunity will continue to go in other mid major directions such as UVM, UAlbany, Iona, etc, schools that we "should" hands down beat time and time again on the recruiting warpath.
I don't blame Patsos as much as I do D'Argenio for accepting such mediocrity when the opportunity to "own" the Northeast mid major market continues to be there for Siena to "own" it.
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rickyp
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Post by rickyp on Sept 5, 2017 22:41:55 GMT -5
Your right on so many points.Hey y'all lets be real some kids just want to play ball with as less academic challenges as possible.Lucky#7don't know hopefully lucky #8 #9 #10
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Post by SaintsFan on Sept 6, 2017 6:31:52 GMT -5
Ooh that was a different way of putting it didn't think of mediocre and not much talent missed that one.So when we miss out on recruits with other mid majors it's bad recruiting but when we have recruits who choose our school with mid major offers and some higher interest there mediocre ooh yeah i get it known.π what players had which midmajor offers? i.e. who was beaten out for which recruits?
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Post by playerparentcoach on Sept 6, 2017 10:34:56 GMT -5
For 1/2/3 Minutes - 120 Total Nico - 28 Shivers - 25 Horn - 16 Penn - 24 Smithen - 15 Richard - 12 For 4/5 Minutes - 80 Total Prince - 20 Fisher- 28 Degnan - 18 Huerter - 14 So this is what you would like to see? Patsos will have his big 3 playing 30+mins and Penn will play 40 mins at the point no matter what. This is what Patsos does. And now that Shivers is out Horn will get the mins at the 2 and Nico at the 3. Richard could get the 12 you put up there but those are scraps. He could play 15 mins one game then 0 the next. If only at the 2g spot.
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Post by sienafanallyearlong2 on Sept 10, 2017 12:00:57 GMT -5
I think this year it won't be like that during their non conference schedule.
Finding out who plays best with Nico and eachother while at the same time winning possesions will be the key to figuring out who will get the most minutes.
That takes time to figure out so my best guess is that the rotation will start out between 8 and 10 players in any given non conference game.
By the time we get to the MAAC we "might" lose one or two players off that rotation.
For the next two years Nico is our Kobe and I think Prince will hopefully,turn into being our Shaq.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Sept 10, 2017 16:45:34 GMT -5
Sure he will throw some people out there for a few mins here and there but only 7 will get enough time to show anything. Now that 7th and 8th could play alot in the first half then 0 in the 2nd. Or not play at all in some games if no one gets in foul nor needs to be taught a lesson.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 17:04:31 GMT -5
Sure he will throw some people out there for a few mins here and there but only 7 will get enough time to show anything. Now that 7th and 8th could play alot in the first half then 0 in the 2nd. Or not play at all in some games if no one gets in foul nor needs to be taught a lesson. Do you think there's a problem with this method?
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Sept 10, 2017 19:27:13 GMT -5
I believe Fran only played 7, meaningful mins, also. Seems it's what some coaches do.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Sept 11, 2017 12:32:39 GMT -5
I believe Fran only played 7, meaningful mins, also. Seems it's what some coaches do. Yes it is rare for DI coaches to play more than 7 or 8 significant minutes. So if you are not in the top 6 or 7 for Siena you wont play much for Patsos. He really only cares about the top 6 and the 7th could change game by game.
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Post by playerparentcoach on Sept 11, 2017 12:36:11 GMT -5
Sure he will throw some people out there for a few mins here and there but only 7 will get enough time to show anything. Now that 7th and 8th could play alot in the first half then 0 in the 2nd. Or not play at all in some games if no one gets in foul nor needs to be taught a lesson. Do you think there's a problem with this method? Every coach has his own style its not right nor wrong. Its just a preference. Patsos will do what he always does. The rotation was set before the trip. Which means several players were not given an opportunity to earn mins for the season. 2 that played will sit once Nico and Shivers come back
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