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Post by greenblood on Mar 14, 2016 10:30:15 GMT -5
Great numbers for ALL student athletes. Do all sports get full scholarships? I seem to recall reading that is not the case. Separation of male and female athletes data would be interesting as well. No, not all sports get scholarships or full ships. Many teams the do get ships split them amount the players so each receive a little. I'm not sure I understand the ship part and why that matters. Siena graduates 90% and men's BBall at least 80%. Again, the school can't force students to learn, they can only offer the opportunity to learn and obtain a degree. Students select their majors, not the school. If student wants to major in creative arts it's their choice. Siena has guidance cou sleep available to help students decide/choose if they don't know what they want; but it's still their choice. It only matters that students who are here on full ships who dont want to learn are not shown the door if they can perform in the court and IMHO that is unfair to those who work very hard at both. That's all.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Mar 14, 2016 12:32:14 GMT -5
No, not all sports get scholarships or full ships. Many teams the do get ships split them amount the players so each receive a little. I'm not sure I understand the ship part and why that matters. Siena graduates 90% and men's BBall at least 80%. Again, the school can't force students to learn, they can only offer the opportunity to learn and obtain a degree. Students select their majors, not the school. If student wants to major in creative arts it's their choice. Siena has guidance cou sleep available to help students decide/choose if they don't know what they want; but it's still their choice. It only matters that students who are here on full ships who dont want to learn are not shown the door if they can perform in the court and IMHO that is unfair to those who work very hard at both. That's all. Phrased that way, I agree. Siena should consider not renewing ships if student isn't doing at least the minimum requirement in which the ship was offered (I.e., grades/class participation wise). I don't know what that minimum requirement is. However, it seems like at least 80-90% of the men's BBall players over those past 3-4 years of GSR ratings appear to have done just that and even graduated. I'm sure there are exceptions but 80-90% can't be all that bad.
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Mar 14, 2016 12:44:41 GMT -5
No, not all sports get scholarships or full ships. Many teams the do get ships split them amount the players so each receive a little. I'm not sure I understand the ship part and why that matters. Siena graduates 90% and men's BBall at least 80%. Again, the school can't force students to learn, they can only offer the opportunity to learn and obtain a degree. Students select their majors, not the school. If student wants to major in creative arts it's their choice. Siena has guidance cou sleep available to help students decide/choose if they don't know what they want; but it's still their choice. It only matters that students who are here on full ships who dont want to learn are not shown the door if they can perform in the court and IMHO that is unfair to those who work very hard at both. That's all. Well the problem is for GSR purposes those kids do become your problem. So your option at that point is to keep the kid in the program and do everything you can to try and help them graduate or let them go and take things completely out of your control. Either way they are counting in GSR, at least in the first scenario you've got a better chance of them counting positively.
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Post by greenblood on Mar 14, 2016 12:58:14 GMT -5
The NCAA eligibility requirements are pretty minimal like 6 credits per semester and GPA something around 1.6 for freshmen 1.8 sophomore 2.0 Jr and Sr. They get 6 years to graduate which is actually pretty close to normal now. There is also an incremental percentage of degree completed requirement spread over 6 years.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Mar 14, 2016 19:48:43 GMT -5
I only brought this up responding to GB's "slippery slope" comment in the thread for potential incoming JC transfer (at least that's how I read it even if that wasn't the intent). I'd like to give him a chance and believe the staff is aware and the admin has considered all the info in allowing the transfer. I remember reading articles over the past 4 or 5 years where Siena's GSR was 90% or better for multiple years (so I searched for this and the other references). While I realize that 90% is for all Siena sports, Men's BBall wasn't too shabby (averaging 82-91% depending on which 5 yrs data they used). Could it be better, of course yes, the athletic GSR can always get better (till it reaches 100%); but I don't consider the 9-18% who didn't graduate men's bball a problem or that materially bad.
As for the majors (or courses) the athletes select is up to them. I have no problem if they go pre-med or if they take the least challenging major (if there is one) - it's their choice. Siena offers the opportunity for an education (free or mostly free for full scholarship athletes); there's no guarantee the athlete will do well and/or even graduate. It's an offer to receive an education; the rest is up to the athlete/student.
Would I prefer all Siena men's bball players to do well and graduate, of course. I'm just not as upset or concerned if 100% don't do as well or graduate. The 80-90% that did graduate seems like a pretty good number to me. How does Siena compare to the other MAAC schools (I haven't looked up the GSR for all D1 schools)? I can only assume that Siena should be in the upper half of the total GSR (seeing there's so few schools that have avg'd 90% or better for as long (or 80-90% for men's bball only).
I do agree with GB, in that, if a full scholarship athlete isn't meeting the bare minimum grades/requirements needed for the ship to continue then I support the college terminating that ship. That sounds fair. I don't think it's fair to necessarily hold all athlete's to grades that they might not achieve or could be considered unrealistic for specific situations (e.g., have to graduate with a 4.0 in 4 or less years). That example is a little ridiculous (for every athlete) and would never be a requirement (unless maybe for the Ivy League schools) just as I don't find the 80-90 men's graduating GSR all that bad.
Edited: PS, don't get me wrong, I love GB. I just don't think GSR of 80-90% is all that bad, but I also don't have any reference. If that 80-90% (fr men's bball) is the worst in all of D1, then yeah, I wound't think those numbers are that great either.
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Post by greenblood on Mar 14, 2016 21:11:43 GMT -5
My original comment was made simply because the GSR numbers are very good and I would certainly hope the pressure to recruit aggressively to win in any collegiate sport at Siena doesn't adversely impact that. Too many kids, especially basketball kids are run through diploma mills. Sadly, sports are messed up from the time these kids get put on 'the belt' early on through high school, AAU, recruitment and hopefully the award of the coveted D1 scholarship. It's become more and more difficult for the Siena's of the world to stay in the primary business of providing a quality education and acheive significant relevance on the court...but I for one still believe we can have it all.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Mar 15, 2016 6:14:28 GMT -5
My original comment was made simply because the GSR numbers are very good and I would certainly hope the pressure to recruit aggressively to win in any collegiate sport at Siena doesn't adversely impact that. Too many kids, especially basketball kids are run through diploma mills. Sadly, sports are messed up from the time these kids get put on 'the belt' early on through high school, AAU, recruitment and hopefully the award of the coveted D1 scholarship. It's become more and more difficult for the Siena's of the world to stay in the primary business of providing a quality education and acheive significant relevance on the court...but I for one still believe we can have it all. GB makes very good points. IMO schools should be obligated to make sure the lids graduate, via tutors, course loads etc. These kids put in supposedly 35 hours a week, we know probably more with getting taped, trainer sessions on their own development. Yes it's a full time job. I know they provide tutors. Problem for these kids is that supporters all telling them they are NBA material. And yes the big schools just don't care if they graduate.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Oct 28, 2016 19:46:00 GMT -5
94% and still one of only a very small number of colleges to routinely make the grade.
Top 10 percentile, not too shabby!!!
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