billmurray
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Post by billmurray on Mar 10, 2022 14:46:45 GMT -5
Gents - you think the transfer portal ruined college sports while the NIL will be the nuke that ends it all as we know it... Excuse my ignorance, but what's NIL? Is that the deal where the players can be paid for their likeness? Like in video games and whatnot? Yes, N (Name) I (Image) L (Likeness)
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Mar 10, 2022 14:53:42 GMT -5
Gents - you think the transfer portal ruined college sports while the NIL will be the nuke that ends it all as we know it... Excuse my ignorance, but what's NIL? Is that the deal where the players can be paid for their likeness? Like in video games and whatnot? Yes NIL stands for: Name Image Likeness
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Post by greengold4ever on Mar 10, 2022 14:55:48 GMT -5
Gents - you think the transfer portal ruined college sports while the NIL will be the nuke that ends it all as we know it... Excuse my ignorance, but what's NIL? Is that the deal where the players can be paid for their likeness? Like in video games and whatnot? yes, Name-Image-Likeness, they get money..............
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class94
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Post by class94 on Mar 10, 2022 15:00:19 GMT -5
To play devils advocate here….while I 100% agree that the new rules make it tougher for mid major fans like us, don’t these rules make things more fair for most? Coaches can leave for a new school without having to sit out a year. Professors can leave for a new school without having to sit out a year. Students can transfer without having to sit out a year. I can leave my job for what I think might be a better opportunity without having to sit out. Why should we hold college athletes prisoners differently than everyone else???
Let’s face it, in the major sports (football and basketball), colleges are pretty much a farm system for the pros. Of course this is far from 100% but for most D1 college players, this is just the minor leagues. Why should the institutions profit from NIL but not the actual athlete??? Unfortunately, DI college athletics in the major sports are a business. These athletes bring in a lot of money for their institutions, shoe companies, etc. Why shouldn’t the athletes be able to profit???
Bottom line, I get that the new rules hurts fans of a mid major team like Siena but I bet that all the athletes like the rules and to be honest, I think the new rules probably are not only more fair and just, but also a truer representation of what college athletics at the top level is really about…..$$$.
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MikeC
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Post by MikeC on Mar 10, 2022 15:11:08 GMT -5
To play devils advocate here….while I 100% agree that the new rules make it tougher for mid major fans like us, don’t these rules make things more fair for most? Coaches can leave for a new school without having to sit out a year. Professors can leave for a new school without having to sit out a year. Students can transfer without having to sit out a year. I can leave my job for what I think might be a better opportunity without having to sit out. Why should we hold college athletes prisoners differently than everyone else??? Let’s face it, in the major sports (football and basketball), colleges are pretty much a farm system for the pros. Of course this is far from 100% but for most D1 college players, this is just the minor leagues. Why should the institutions profit from NIL but not the actual athlete??? Unfortunately, DI college athletics in the major sports are a business. These athletes bring in a lot of money for their institutions, shoe companies, etc. Why shouldn’t the athletes be able to profit??? Bottom line, I get that the new rules hurts fans of a mid major team like Siena but I bet that all the athletes like the rules and to be honest, I think the new rules probably are not only more fair and just, but also a truer representation of what college athletics at the top level is really about…..$$$. Agree 100% But I really don't think this Transfer Portal business is good for the kids. For every "star" mid-major player who transfers to UNC and goes on to get his money and shine on the national spotlight, there are 10 who struggle with this situation. The "one size fits all" rule is really the problem, but I don't necessarily see a way around it. Yes, the kids should be treated fairly...but as you said, at this level for every Jalen Pickett that transfers, there is a (not to pick on him at all, just a totally random example) Donald Carey. I really don't think it's good for the vast majority to have the responsibility to have to decide after every year "should I stay or should I go". That's a heavy burden. I say, you make your choice and live with it. If it doesn't work out, you can always leave, but you must sit out a year, so that factors into your decision and keeps the shenanigans to a minimum. This shit is Pandora's Box, and ultimately it's not good for these kids. Think of all the scum bag coaches out there who are "recruiting" MAAC players. It's disgusting. It's very much like Predator / prey.
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Post by greengold4ever on Mar 10, 2022 15:19:11 GMT -5
To play devils advocate here….while I 100% agree that the new rules make it tougher for mid major fans like us, don’t these rules make things more fair for most? Coaches can leave for a new school without having to sit out a year. Professors can leave for a new school without having to sit out a year. Students can transfer without having to sit out a year. I can leave my job for what I think might be a better opportunity without having to sit out. Why should we hold college athletes prisoners differently than everyone else??? Let’s face it, in the major sports (football and basketball), colleges are pretty much a farm system for the pros. Of course this is far from 100% but for most D1 college players, this is just the minor leagues. Why should the institutions profit from NIL but not the actual athlete??? Unfortunately, DI college athletics in the major sports are a business. These athletes bring in a lot of money for their institutions, shoe companies, etc. Why shouldn’t the athletes be able to profit??? Bottom line, I get that the new rules hurts fans of a mid major team like Siena but I bet that all the athletes like the rules and to be honest, I think the new rules probably are not only more fair and just, but also a truer representation of what college athletics at the top level is really about…..$$$. well, because they are amateurs, not professionals..........in most cases if they stay 4 yrs, they get over $200K (just as an average) to attend that school(s), is it fair to the reg student population who actually go to class everyday to end up having huge loans to payoff for well beyond the yrs of graduation?.......some sort of "stipend" is OK, but this allowing of athletes to be "pretend" students has got to stop, you want to transfer then you should have to sit out a year and get yourself acclimated to the new school before you play your sport......rule was you get 5 yrs to play 4 yrs (which might include a transfer yr or medical red-shirt), how they moved away from that is just crazy (sure covid didn't help but life has a series of unexpected turns that we all must face, kids aren't gaining much from do-over)...no freebies from this place to that place, NCAA org is a cluster, and they really don't care about any of the kids, in as much as they say they do................and you can just simply forget the record books, with kids playing extra yrs, stats are just a joke now, piling up #'s that are really meaningless because they got to play extra yrs, ridiculous...........
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class94
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Post by class94 on Mar 10, 2022 15:21:41 GMT -5
To play devils advocate here….while I 100% agree that the new rules make it tougher for mid major fans like us, don’t these rules make things more fair for most? Coaches can leave for a new school without having to sit out a year. Professors can leave for a new school without having to sit out a year. Students can transfer without having to sit out a year. I can leave my job for what I think might be a better opportunity without having to sit out. Why should we hold college athletes prisoners differently than everyone else??? Let’s face it, in the major sports (football and basketball), colleges are pretty much a farm system for the pros. Of course this is far from 100% but for most D1 college players, this is just the minor leagues. Why should the institutions profit from NIL but not the actual athlete??? Unfortunately, DI college athletics in the major sports are a business. These athletes bring in a lot of money for their institutions, shoe companies, etc. Why shouldn’t the athletes be able to profit??? Bottom line, I get that the new rules hurts fans of a mid major team like Siena but I bet that all the athletes like the rules and to be honest, I think the new rules probably are not only more fair and just, but also a truer representation of what college athletics at the top level is really about…..$$$. Agree 100% But I really don't think this Transfer Portal business is good for the kids. For every "star" mid-major player who transfers to UNC and goes on to get his money and shine on the national spotlight, there are 10 who struggle with this situation. The "one size fits all" rule is really the problem, but I don't necessarily see a way around it. Yes, the kids should be treated fairly...but as you said, at this level for every Jalen Pickett that transfers, there is a (not to pick on him at all, just a totally random example) Donald Carey. I really don't think it's good for the vast majority to have the responsibility to have to decide after every year "should I stay or should I go". That's a heavy burden. I say, you make your choice and live with it. If it doesn't work out, you can always leave, but you must sit out a year, so that factors into your decision and keeps the shenanigans to a minimum. This shit is Pandora's Box, and ultimately it's not good for these kids. Think of all the scum bag coaches out there who are "recruiting" MAAC players. It's disgusting. It's very much like Predator / prey. Valid points but isn’t that true of anybody that is really good at something? I get job offers all the time. Yep, there will be many who make poor decisions and hopefully they learn from those while they’re still young but is it really fair to put artificial/arbitrary restrictions on them to A) “protect” them from making a mistake, and/or B) to make mid major basketball more enjoyable for fans?
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class94
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Post by class94 on Mar 10, 2022 15:27:46 GMT -5
Agree 100% But I really don't think this Transfer Portal business is good for the kids. For every "star" mid-major player who transfers to UNC and goes on to get his money and shine on the national spotlight, there are 10 who struggle with this situation. The "one size fits all" rule is really the problem, but I don't necessarily see a way around it. Yes, the kids should be treated fairly...but as you said, at this level for every Jalen Pickett that transfers, there is a (not to pick on him at all, just a totally random example) Donald Carey. I really don't think it's good for the vast majority to have the responsibility to have to decide after every year "should I stay or should I go". That's a heavy burden. I say, you make your choice and live with it. If it doesn't work out, you can always leave, but you must sit out a year, so that factors into your decision and keeps the shenanigans to a minimum. This shit is Pandora's Box, and ultimately it's not good for these kids. Think of all the scum bag coaches out there who are "recruiting" MAAC players. It's disgusting. It's very much like Predator / prey. Valid points but isn’t that true of anybody that is really good at something? I get job offers all the time. Yep, there will be many who make poor decisions and hopefully they learn from those while they’re still young but is it really fair to put artificial/arbitrary restrictions on them to A) “protect” them from making a mistake, and/or B) to make mid major basketball more enjoyable for fans? Is it ok that a smart kid gets to go to college for free but a kid of average intelligence has to pay $200k? It’s the same thing. The smartest students and the best athletes help bring recognition and ultimately $$$ to their institution. It’s capitalism. Most of you like capitalism….or rather you purport to like it when it serves your interests….but when capitalism impacts your enjoyment of a sport, all of a sudden, we turn into socialists??? For the record, personally speaking, I don’t like the new rules either, but when I look at it more objectively, I have to admit that it makes more sense.
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MikeC
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Post by MikeC on Mar 10, 2022 15:34:35 GMT -5
Agree 100% But I really don't think this Transfer Portal business is good for the kids. For every "star" mid-major player who transfers to UNC and goes on to get his money and shine on the national spotlight, there are 10 who struggle with this situation. The "one size fits all" rule is really the problem, but I don't necessarily see a way around it. Yes, the kids should be treated fairly...but as you said, at this level for every Jalen Pickett that transfers, there is a (not to pick on him at all, just a totally random example) Donald Carey. I really don't think it's good for the vast majority to have the responsibility to have to decide after every year "should I stay or should I go". That's a heavy burden. I say, you make your choice and live with it. If it doesn't work out, you can always leave, but you must sit out a year, so that factors into your decision and keeps the shenanigans to a minimum. This shit is Pandora's Box, and ultimately it's not good for these kids. Think of all the scum bag coaches out there who are "recruiting" MAAC players. It's disgusting. It's very much like Predator / prey. Valid points but isn’t that true of anybody that is really good at something? I get job offers all the time. Yep, there will be many who make poor decisions and hopefully they learn from those while they’re still young but is it really fair to put artificial/arbitrary restrictions on them to A) “protect” them from making a mistake, and/or B) to make mid major basketball more enjoyable for fans? Well, at this rate, there are going to be little to no fans left. Siena will be back playing in the ARC in 5-10 years.
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Post by hardwood on Mar 10, 2022 15:55:57 GMT -5
Valid points but isn’t that true of anybody that is really good at something? I get job offers all the time. Yep, there will be many who make poor decisions and hopefully they learn from those while they’re still young but is it really fair to put artificial/arbitrary restrictions on them to A) “protect” them from making a mistake, and/or B) to make mid major basketball more enjoyable for fans? Well, at this rate, there are going to be little to no fans left. Siena will be back playing in the ARC in 5-10 years. It won’t take that long
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Sienafan
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Post by Sienafan on Mar 10, 2022 16:26:02 GMT -5
MAAC teams SPU, Iona, Canisius, Niagara, Manhattan, and Fairfield are all on the board. Any names of significance? Not yet. Canisius - Delveion Jackson Fairfield - Tshiefu Ngalakulondi Iona - Robert Brown Manhattan - Amir Britt, E.J. Dambreville, Sean Duke Niagara - Raheem Solomon SPU - Miles Gibson
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musicman
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Post by musicman on Mar 10, 2022 16:59:01 GMT -5
Valid points but isn’t that true of anybody that is really good at something? I get job offers all the time. Yep, there will be many who make poor decisions and hopefully they learn from those while they’re still young but is it really fair to put artificial/arbitrary restrictions on them to A) “protect” them from making a mistake, and/or B) to make mid major basketball more enjoyable for fans? Is it ok that a smart kid gets to go to college for free but a kid of average intelligence has to pay $200k? It’s the same thing. The smartest students and the best athletes help bring recognition and ultimately $$$ to their institution. It’s capitalism. Most of you like capitalism….or rather you purport to like it when it serves your interests….but when capitalism impacts your enjoyment of a sport, all of a sudden, we turn into socialists??? For the record, personally speaking, I don’t like the new rules either, but when I look at it more objectively, I have to admit that it makes more sense. I really can't argue about anything you're saying on the topic of amateur student vs. capitalism other than stating the obvious. By definition, the distinction between amateur participants and professional participants has always been very simple. Professionals are paid, amateurs are not. But the rules are going to be changed a lot now. But not for all the amateurs, just for the most important ones, the ones that have tremendous talent. And not for the most talented in every sport, just the ones that make money for the schools. The dirty practices of how 18 year old superstars are recruited for football and basketball are well known. Everyone has read the stories about big time programs paying off parents, "agents" or anyone else that has influence in getting the prospects signed. Now we're going to get big business/sponsors in on this mess for recruitment as well as help to pay for this star to stay in this school. Now Siena and UAlbany can still compete evenly against each other for the same athletes. BUT, the decision won't be on who has the best major academically for the prospective student. It'll be on who offers the most money. It all sounds fair when you explain it. When my mind really thinks about it, it doesn't seem so much. Just saying.
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Post by saints15 on Mar 10, 2022 17:14:08 GMT -5
Let’s be honest, the NCAA didn’t institute the NIL and no sit rule because they wanted to be nice to the players. They did it because they already had lost some court cases, we’re about to lose more, and faced the possible elimination of their organization.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Mar 10, 2022 18:40:14 GMT -5
Look again, platek averaged about 15 minutes a game for NC and was a defensive specialist for his position. Burns and platek had the local ties and are welcome exceptions. But absent of those exceptions I'd rather look at kids who were overlooked at lower levels that have more years of eligibility remaining. The graduate bench players are not going to be the type of players that bring Siena to the top of the Maac on a consistent basis. You're not helping your case. 15 minutes a game is the very definition of a bench player. If he was happy with that he wouldn't have transferred. A MAAC school isn't going to get a high-major starter as a transfer - they transfer to other high-majors. Our realistic targets in the portal are mid-major studs who are faced with coaching change, dissatisfied with playing time, or in crappy programs (Carey, Stormo, Rogers) and high-major role players looking for a featured role at a lower level (Platek, Gaines, Burns, etc.). As a whole, Siena has done well in the portal. They've had some bombs (Tertsea, Hein, Ratliff), but they've also gotten a bunch of notable starter caliber players out of it. They've also gotten some decent role players out of it - I'd put Baer and Kellier in that category. No one is getting a class of nothing but all league starters in the transfer portal. We got two in the last class. And I'd argue that head-to-head, Stormo has been as good as any big man in the league - he just isn't rewarded for it. That's fantastic results with the portal. We'll duh, and that's the point, which you expertly made for me, thanks. If Siena wants to get to the top 100, they can't rely on high major transfers. No need to debate, just look at the results so far. Time to do something different, because clearly what has been done so far hasn't worked out.
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hankla
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Post by hankla on Mar 10, 2022 19:00:31 GMT -5
I understand in Siena basketball's real glory years on the national scene late 1940's to the early 1950's that there was no transfer sit out rule and teams almost traded players. I heard that a player could play for Manhattan one year and for Siena the next year and vice versa. I think it was part of the corruption that caused Siena to stop giving basketball scholarships. When I first started going to Siena games the team with no scholarships was playing scholarship schools and were not competitive.
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