saints22
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Post by saints22 on Mar 10, 2020 10:51:08 GMT -5
Where has quiet reasoning gone. It's all in your face over the top reaction and yelling both in print as well as sound. Including all of your comments about the AD!
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notomo
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Post by notomo on Mar 10, 2020 11:02:11 GMT -5
They didn't share with the community because they, in all probability, were not suppose to. I love it how people these days have the right to know everything. No wonder we have news 24/7. We would be better off knowing less. "in all probability" Since when is it improbable to simply announce that a self-referral has been made for potential violations? That would have shown real leadership and honesty.Also, since when don't we as interested and affected parties have the right to know what's going on. Put me firmly in the camp of those who want to know more, not less.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Mar 10, 2020 11:34:00 GMT -5
Who’s job was it to supervise Patsos? This was not one isolated incident. Their is now a series of reported unacceptable behavior over multi years under John’s watch. If John is saying he didn’t know he should be dismissed. If he did know he should be dismissed. That is a different question, Siena88. What neither of us knows is the extent to which D’Arg became aware of information which would cause an AD to ask questions about a coach’s behavior and what he attempted to do about it if anything. And for those who say he should have resigned rather than follow the direction he was given to hire first Mitch and then Jimmy, talk is cheap. How many individuals on this board would have done so and started filing for unemployment benefits, which probably would have been denied? There was a chance, however small, that either of those two coaches could have been successful. And self-preservation is a great motivator. KS, I agree but save your breath; it appears there’s at least 3-4 individuals who’ve already made up their mind on the subject and I don’t think there’s anything we can say to help change those minds.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Mar 10, 2020 11:38:40 GMT -5
AMEN! Basketball team wins in spite of the AD. Incompetence coupled with arrogance is a pretty bad combo. Should have been ousted many years ago. How the heck did he survive 10 years of DRECK and now this?!?!?!! Man is an embarrassment. Where was this team 10 years pre and post fran? Mediocrity....in this conference, with these facilities, at this great school. Yes, AD of this team is a job like Goodell and the NFL. set up for success. His hires have been about 1 for 3 at best . For a program cherished by many. 10 years before Fran Paul Hewitt was wining the MAAC Tournament and playing in the ncaa’s. Rob Lanier was at the helm when the team became the only MAAC school to win 4 tournament games in a row to capture the MAAC championship and beat Alcon St in ncaa’s to be one only like the 2nd team w/a losing record to win an NCAA tournament game. 10 years after Fran we had JC resurrect the program back to relevance which Carm is now taking to the next level.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Mar 10, 2020 11:42:11 GMT -5
They didn't share with the community because they, in all probability, were not suppose to. I love it how people these days have the right to know everything. No wonder we have news 24/7. We would be better off knowing less. "in all probability" Since when is it improbable to simply announce that a self-referral has been made for potential violations? That would have shown real leadership and honesty.Also, since when don't we as interested and affected parties have the right to know what's going on. Put me firmly in the camp of those who want to know more, not less. Siena’s a private institution and isn’t required to share anything with the public. Besides Siena announced the investigation into some of the alleged actions as early as Feb 2018 and hired a firm to look into even more allegations. Siena then turned over their finding yo ncaa who then performed their own investigation. During the ncaa’s investigation it’s safe to assume Siena wasn’t at liberty to discuss and even if they were allowed why should they if they’re not required to? It’s not like they’re a State college and have to provide details of investigations.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Mar 10, 2020 11:45:28 GMT -5
That is a different question, Siena88. What neither of us knows is the extent to which D’Arg became aware of information which would cause an AD to ask questions about a coach’s behavior and what he attempted to do about it if anything. And for those who say he should have resigned rather than follow the direction he was given to hire first Mitch and then Jimmy, talk is cheap. How many individuals on this board would have done so and started filing for unemployment benefits, which probably would have been denied? There was a chance, however small, that either of those two coaches could have been successful. And self-preservation is a great motivator. You aren’t wrong... And shame on Siena admin for pulling these shenanigans with key hires. Kinda reminds me of a meddling owner of a pro sports franchise... So one of 2 things here: Either they didn’t have faith in or value the opinion of the AD, who in theory one would think would be a key part of the hiring process. Or the AD didn’t command that type of respect. Maybe he’s the type of person to just go along to get along...will do anything he’s told, just keep them paychecks coming. Either way, look at the disastrous results...look at the carnage, the wasted time and wasted years. I’m mostly just sad that something truly great was lost instead of the door being answered when opportunities came a knocking. What? You mean the owner of a business (or in this case the President of a college) can’t make or isn’t allowed to make personnel (hiring decisions) they believe in even if those hires go against their employee’s (John’s) recommendations? What business do you work for where employees can overrule their owners/bosses w/out consequences?
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Mar 10, 2020 11:53:44 GMT -5
That is a different question, Siena88. What neither of us knows is the extent to which D’Arg became aware of information which would cause an AD to ask questions about a coach’s behavior and what he attempted to do about it if anything. And for those who say he should have resigned rather than follow the direction he was given to hire first Mitch and then Jimmy, talk is cheap. How many individuals on this board would have done so and started filing for unemployment benefits, which probably would have been denied? There was a chance, however small, that either of those two coaches could have been successful. And self-preservation is a great motivator. The president who was responsible for those two coaching hires was replaced. John is responsible for leading and supervising the athletic department. Once the decision was made to hire Patsos, John should have been sure he knew what was going on with the program including the boosters. The Siena athletic department has only one program that could tarnish the Siena brand and under John’s leadership that happened. If he claims he didn’t know this and all the previous documented issue’s were going on for several years he should be dismissed. If he did know he should be dismissed. This is not one incident under John it is a pattern. This is the first test of the new presidents leadership. Boosters? What are you talking about knowing what boosters were going? I thought the report only referenced 1 booster who didn’t answer ncaa’s questions (or said the booster hampered the investigation). The NCAA investigation took place after Gen 2018. I’m not following the significance of the booster comment with regards to the AD should have known or been watching more closely (assuming something bad was going on when prior to them finding out ahead of time). What’s the “pattern”? How many others Siena coaches broke NCAA rules that the AD and us should have known about? I’m sure John is willing to listen to your evidence and I’m also sure he’d turn it over to NCAA just like he/school did here. If you’re withholding info, please come forward; otherwise you’re no better off than the violators. What’s that bible story about casting stones?
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SIENA1971
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Post by SIENA1971 on Mar 10, 2020 12:00:07 GMT -5
Hiring topic gets resurrected on this board every year . . . it's very simple:
Mitch was hired hoping Fran magic would rub off on him (had player support) . . . no personality, not enough Ws
Patsos was a known entity - 9 years at Loyola (plus Maryland & NCAA run) and was a media darling . . . no known shenanigans other then Curry and coaching in stands incidents - brought $$ to program not Ws (and probably developed/groomed the offending booster)
Neither worked out and Monday morning quarterbacks have plenty of ammo to show why
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Mar 10, 2020 12:01:49 GMT -5
Look, I know none of us like what happened or reading about it. I just don’t see the need to try and place blame just to make us/you feel better.
The college took steps to investigate, correct the immediate cause and fired a coach, took actions to set up training, retraining, internal controls, monitoring, etc..
It sounds to me like they’re going everything possible to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
While this may not please everyone, can we at least try and put this behind us and focus on the immediate goal of the team trying to win a MAAC Championship.
Let’s leave the college’s handling of its employees up to the college people in charge. I have faith they can handle this even if it means not firing anyone that some fans may want fired.
Let’s Go Saints!!!
PS: I’ll stop responding to attacks on my favorite team if those who are attacking certain college employees; otherwise, you’ll force me to keep responding which I’m sure no body wants to see me post the same response Ad-nauseam.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 12:24:03 GMT -5
Ad-nauseam (sic) - very punny ….
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Mar 10, 2020 12:57:51 GMT -5
My 2 cents:
I've never heard of an AD that a fan base actually likes. Either they are out of the spotlight or take the blame for perceived faults within the athletic department. That said, I have no opinion on JD, he may well be worthy of the hatred he gets on this board.
JP's argument of "grey areas" are laughable. Who knew giving cash to players was wrong? Especially awesome about it is the allegation that his coaching staff refused to pass out per diem money at times.
Siena did the right thing. They identified a problem, self reported it (and yes, it was publicized at the time) and investigated it. While the timing sucks, the punishment clearly reflects the school/athletic department addressing the issues the right way.
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olddave
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Post by olddave on Mar 10, 2020 13:33:15 GMT -5
My 2 cents: I've never heard of an AD that a fan base actually likes. Either they are out of the spotlight or take the blame for perceived faults within the athletic department. That said, I have no opinion on JD, he may well be worthy of the hatred he gets on this board. JP's argument of "grey areas" are laughable. Who knew giving cash to players was wrong? Especially awesome about it is the allegation that his coaching staff refused to pass out per diem money at times. Siena did the right thing. They identified a problem, self reported it (and yes, it was publicized at the time) and investigated it. While the timing sucks, the punishment clearly reflects the school/athletic department addressing the issues the right way. Self admitted non fan do the AD, but I believe we should move on. The school will work out how responsible the AD is for JP discretions. Who know they might already have a plan in place. As IS states the school needs to tell us nothing. The only time I even think about this fiasco is when reading this thread. My last thoughts, if the AD had some responsibility the school will take steps to resolve the situation. oh to,have Brother Ed back. God rest his soul. Not only did he bring Siena back academically he would have resolved this situation in a more timely quieter manner.
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Post by missatomicbomb8 on Mar 10, 2020 17:50:48 GMT -5
That is a different question, Siena88. What neither of us knows is the extent to which D’Arg became aware of information which would cause an AD to ask questions about a coach’s behavior and what he attempted to do about it if anything. And for those who say he should have resigned rather than follow the direction he was given to hire first Mitch and then Jimmy, talk is cheap. How many individuals on this board would have done so and started filing for unemployment benefits, which probably would have been denied? There was a chance, however small, that either of those two coaches could have been successful. And self-preservation is a great motivator. I dont agree that "There was a chance...". There was ZERO chance Mitch would succeed. His track record followed by just speaking to him. I told D'Arg that would go down as the worst hire in siena basketball to his face and he laughed about it. To this date... its the worst by far. It set the table for the desperation that saw the eventual hire of Patsos. Mitch is NOT a head coach and how anyone with the checkbook thought otherwise brings their OWN JOB into serious question. I cancelled my season tickets of 18 years thanks to the hiring of mitch and didnt come back until this year. Well said and this needed to be said. We all liked mitch as a coach and person. Dropping this program in his lap following fran was a total kick in the onions and just, well, not smart, lazy, and flat out dumb. Not how a D1 school should operate. A leader with vision and love and a feel for the trajectory this program was on would have played that hand with a move to the future. instead of panicking and lazily handing the job over to the over aged, nervous, and out of his league coach. A team on the precipice of the A10. The players, fan momentum, school geography, academics, and a fabulous facility that would compete with the leagues best immediately! Sure, maybe we weren't being courted by the A10, but, we were for sure on the radar. With teams like the Bonnie's, Fordham, Richmond, and duquenne; I wouldn't understand why we couldn't. That said, we never pushed it. Our perfect fit when we were trending north and this conference south.we even had talented, entertaining coaches that loved the maac and after the decline, the coaching talent never followed
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 19:01:41 GMT -5
I dont agree that "There was a chance...". There was ZERO chance Mitch would succeed. His track record followed by just speaking to him. I told D'Arg that would go down as the worst hire in siena basketball to his face and he laughed about it. To this date... its the worst by far. It set the table for the desperation that saw the eventual hire of Patsos. Mitch is NOT a head coach and how anyone with the checkbook thought otherwise brings their OWN JOB into serious question. I cancelled my season tickets of 18 years thanks to the hiring of mitch and didnt come back until this year. Well said and this needed to be said. We all liked mitch as a coach and person. Dropping this program in his lap following fran was a total kick in the onions and just, well, not smart, lazy, and flat out dumb. Not how a D1 school should operate. A leader with vision and love and a feel for the trajectory this program was on would have played that hand with a move to the future. instead of panicking and lazily handing the job over to the over aged, nervous, and out of his league coach. A team on the precipice of the A10. The players, fan momentum, school geography, academics, and a fabulous facility that would compete with the leagues best immediately! Sure, maybe we weren't being courted by the A10, but, we were for sure on the radar. With teams like the Bonnie's, Fordham, Richmond, and duquenne; I wouldn't understand why we couldn't. That said, we never pushed it. Our perfect fit when we were trending north and this conference south.we even had talented, entertaining coaches that loved the maac and after the decline, the coaching talent never followed Might be the first post of yours that I agree with, in part anyway. The characterization of "lazy" for the Mitch hiring is, IMO, the best I've heard to date. It was easy and gave us an immediately available remnant, and a key one at that, from the total Fran era. Mitch deserved a chance at redeeming himself from his Fairfield days and, as often happens, history repeats itself. I for one, thought he'd serve us well.
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Post by missatomicbomb8 on Mar 10, 2020 19:10:14 GMT -5
That is a different question, Siena88. What neither of us knows is the extent to which D’Arg became aware of information which would cause an AD to ask questions about a coach’s behavior and what he attempted to do about it if anything. And for those who say he should have resigned rather than follow the direction he was given to hire first Mitch and then Jimmy, talk is cheap. How many individuals on this board would have done so and started filing for unemployment benefits, which probably would have been denied? There was a chance, however small, that either of those two coaches could have been successful. And self-preservation is a great motivator. I dont agree that "There was a chance...". There was ZERO chance Mitch would succeed. His track record followed by just speaking to him. I told D'Arg that would go down as the worst hire in siena basketball to his face and he laughed about it. To this date... its the worst by far. It set the table for the desperation that saw the eventual hire of Patsos. Mitch is NOT a head coach and how anyone with the checkbook thought otherwise brings their OWN JOB into serious question. I cancelled my season tickets of 18 years thanks to the hiring of mitch and didnt come back until this year. You have onions and I respect that and I felt the same about the way the program was handled back in 2005ish when fran left. There were many moving parts and it was dynamic setting up and requiring a sharp leader to take advantage of the momentum fran established and built and the trajectory he sent this program on. Sadly, it was all squashed and lost in the most wild fashion. We hire nick, an aged assistant with no personality, head man vibe, and wanting nothing to do with pr for the program and the responsibility of doing all the interviews involved. Not the man's fault , but the lazy move of JD and/or this Siena board we talk of. Given that hire, not one brain involved. Then, the patch up and 5 year bandaid with James patsos. Can't make this up.....
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