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Post by saints15 on Feb 21, 2020 18:01:25 GMT -5
People, let’s get real. Do you really think if this rule was in place last year that Jalen wouldn’t have jumped at the chance to go to a top 5 power conference? Don’t you think that the feedback from the NBA included ‘we would have liked to see you against stronger competition for a full season.’ And if someone offered Carm $500k more a year he wouldn’t jump at it? We are talking about potential life changing opportunities. Would you pass them up, even if you loved where you were? Plus you have to consider that top athletes/coaches have a competitive nature and always want to prove themselves at the highest level possible. It’s what makes them so good in the first place. Personally I think this is an awful rule. If you want to make an exception for a coach that recruited you leaving, great. Otherwise you stay where you committed and if you decide to leave you pay the penalty. But if the rule goes through I don’t begrudge the players leveraging it to improve their future potential opportunities. I guess you don’t know Jalen or his family very well. I don’t believe he would have left Siena after last season regardless of this rule. Not saying he wouldn’t consider leaving but don’t think he would have. You’re right, I don’t know him. But I know top athletes and they always want to challenge themselves against the best and do whatever it takes to chase their dreams (turning pro). And if he went to a top 50 program, with better facilities, better competition and a beautiful campus, you think he wouldn’t learn to love it there too, while enhancing his chance to become a pro?
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 21, 2020 18:43:33 GMT -5
I guess you don’t know Jalen or his family very well. I don’t believe he would have left Siena after last season regardless of this rule. Not saying he wouldn’t consider leaving but don’t think he would have. You’re right, I don’t know him. But I know top athletes and they always want to challenge themselves against the best and do whatever it takes to chase their dreams (turning pro). And if he went to a top 50 program, with better facilities, better competition and a beautiful campus, you think he wouldn’t learn to love it there too, while enhancing his chance to become a pro? We haven't had the no wait rule but we have yet to have a major player leave at Siena to go to a higher level program without a coaching change. Nobody knows what will happen.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 21, 2020 18:47:44 GMT -5
Did you ever listed to Coach Christian speak? No one got you to believe in what he was saying more than that guy. And turns out it was all a bunch of lies once the money truck rolled up. Yes, I did. JC & JP both said they loved Siena but neither meant it (i.e., their actions spoke louder than their words). Coach Carm’s actions to date back his words. If you and others can’t see that then I can’t help you. Carm has done so much in the community and promoting the college in his short tenure (and is sincere) than JP & JC’s combine years at Siena. Carm, unlike the other coaches mentioned in this thread “did not graduate from Siena nor grow up in the capital district rooting for Siena” like Carm did. Of course when other coaches say they live Siena they don’t mean it as much as Carm. I tell you what, if Carm leaves “before” 5 years (which will include multiple MAAC Championships & a Sweet 16) you can say I was wrong. Otherwise, I’ll remind everyone during Carm’s 6th year coaching Siena about this thread. I hope you get that chance. In fairness to Carm should the situation warrant it I hope siena steps up and makes a renewed commitment to hoop, consistent with the times.
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 21, 2020 18:50:33 GMT -5
You’re right, I don’t know him. But I know top athletes and they always want to challenge themselves against the best and do whatever it takes to chase their dreams (turning pro). And if he went to a top 50 program, with better facilities, better competition and a beautiful campus, you think he wouldn’t learn to love it there too, while enhancing his chance to become a pro? We haven't had the no wait rule but we have yet to have a major player leave at Siena to go to a higher level program without a coaching change. Nobody knows what will happen. but we have..............Jack McClinton went to Miami-FL of the ACC, became a 1st team all league performer.....ouch................and Al Fisher left to go to Kent St of the MAC (a way better league than the MAAC), and he became POY in that conference........ugh..............
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 21, 2020 19:09:01 GMT -5
We haven't had the no wait rule but we have yet to have a major player leave at Siena to go to a higher level program without a coaching change. Nobody knows what will happen. but we have..............Jack McClinton went to Miami-FL of the ACC, became a 1st team all league performer.....ouch................and Al Fisher left to go to Kent St of the MAC (a way better league than the MAAC), and he became POY in that conference........ugh.............. Nope, read again.
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 21, 2020 19:12:01 GMT -5
but we have..............Jack McClinton went to Miami-FL of the ACC, became a 1st team all league performer.....ouch................and Al Fisher left to go to Kent St of the MAC (a way better league than the MAAC), and he became POY in that conference........ugh.............. Nope, read again. right, no coaching change involved so we lost a TON of talent in those 2 guys.....................
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 21, 2020 19:36:48 GMT -5
right, no coaching change involved so we lost a TON of talent in those 2 guys..................... Point remains... McClinton left because Lanier was fired.
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 21, 2020 19:46:43 GMT -5
right, no coaching change involved so we lost a TON of talent in those 2 guys..................... Point remains... McClinton left because Lanier was fired. those 2 guys were out the door, having the opportunity to play UP, sorry they weren't sticking around Loudonville..............
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Post by metsmcsa on Feb 22, 2020 8:23:19 GMT -5
I hate the concept but it won't kill midmajor basketball. Many of the kids at midmajors chose to go to that level to be the star rather than be a role or bench player at a bigger school. You also have a much better chance of ever reaching the NCAA tournament at a good midmajor than by going to Boston College or Fordham. Yes, Siena would lose a few stud freshman or guys that breakout as sophomores and that would be really rough. But the majority of the team would return each year and we might be able to land some guys similar to Burns that want to move down in level without having to sit out a year. I hope this isn't the future of college basketball and fear it is but it won't kill midmajors. Only way to kill midmajors would be to remove the auto bids or to use Papi's dumb idea to put all the midmajors in Division 1-AA. Exactly. I have to think that Siena would be in a better position than most to weather this storm. If not and they are still serious about hoop... time to consider the a10. Let’s face the facts - the MAAC is small potatoes. We are a mid-major team in a low major league. High major teams have been poaching our coaches for years and it could potentially be the same for our players. The only way to combat this is to raise our profile and join a better league. Then recruits are less apt to want to “move UP” because they are already in a high quality league. Although we would still lose players even in the A10, we would in theory be in a better position to attract transfer candidates from better leagues to replace whoever may leave.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 22, 2020 8:39:09 GMT -5
Exactly. I have to think that Siena would be in a better position than most to weather this storm. If not and they are still serious about hoop... time to consider the a10. Let’s face the facts - the MAAC is small potatoes. We are a mid-major team in a low major league. High major teams have been poaching our coaches for years and it could potentially be the same for our players. The only way to combat this is to raise our profile and join a better league. Then recruits are less apt to want to “move UP” because they are already in a high quality league. Although we would still lose players even in the A10, we would in theory be in a better position to attract transfer candidates from better leagues to replace whoever may leave. Agreed. The problem with the maac is that there are too many teams. When they expanded,they got like minded programs instead of ones that would raise their profile. Siena left the nac to get a better level competition, now they are basically in the nac again. However, they have to prove themselves all over again by winning the maac before thinking about moving up.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Feb 23, 2020 7:52:40 GMT -5
We haven't had the no wait rule but we have yet to have a major player leave at Siena to go to a higher level program without a coaching change. Nobody knows what will happen. but we have..............Jack McClinton went to Miami-FL of the ACC, became a 1st team all league performer.....ouch................and Al Fisher left to go to Kent St of the MAC (a way better league than the MAAC), and he became POY in that conference........ugh.............. Jack & Al left due to their coach getting fired. Does anyone have any evidence either would have left if coach not fired? I can’t remember a Star Siena player ever leaving Siena that want due to a coaching change. Burdeen (sp) left not due to coaching change to UMass but was he a star? I’m not saying other MMS won’t be impacted but the character of the players Siena recruits (especially under Carm) I just don’t see any Siena players leaving. Call me naive but I just don’t see it under Carm.
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Post by greengold4ever on Feb 23, 2020 9:13:53 GMT -5
but we have..............Jack McClinton went to Miami-FL of the ACC, became a 1st team all league performer.....ouch................and Al Fisher left to go to Kent St of the MAC (a way better league than the MAAC), and he became POY in that conference........ugh.............. Jack & Al left due to their coach getting fired. Does anyone have any evidence either would have left if coach not fired? I can’t remember a Star Siena player ever leaving Siena that want due to a coaching change. Burdeen (sp) left not due to coaching change to UMass but was he a star? I’m not saying other MMS won’t be impacted but the character of the players Siena recruits (especially under Carm) I just don’t see any Siena players leaving. Call me naive but I just don’t see it under Carm. Here’s the proof, when a kid has a chance to play at a higher level than Siena, they will do it, that’s all the proof you need.................and they can be great character kids as well.............it’s ok to be naive, just not 24/7...............
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Post by psycholojets on Feb 23, 2020 10:26:34 GMT -5
The sky isn't falling. Some would leave others will come. New challenges for coaching staffs and i have more faith in Carm and his crew the more i watch them in action. Admittedly JP would likely have left after last year but he is far from the average MAAC orfriends
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Post by psycholojets on Feb 23, 2020 10:27:56 GMT -5
Jalen is far from the average Siena or MAAC player.
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Feb 23, 2020 11:09:22 GMT -5
Another advantage not mentioned is now these players won't get the year to bulk up. I was always told that players are better with a year off. So now when Iona grabs these transfers they will only be 25 years old instead of 26.
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