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Post by MTS on Jan 22, 2019 17:24:54 GMT -5
I would of course prefer more but 67 points in a win is much better than 61 in an OT loss. What was more important to me as fan of being aggressive with both offensive and defensive hoop was that they were actually trying more often than not to look for opportunities to push the ball up the floor and looking for their shot early in the shot clock. Unless they get in to the big dance every year winning ugly, if you all think that winning no matter what (in the 50's/low 60's) will draw "new" fans, you are delusional. If they go 12-6 in MAAC play scoring 58-63 pts p/gm and make it to the MAAC final they will still draw less than 6000 actual fans per game next year. If they have that same record and reach the MAAC Final next yr scoring 75-80 pts p/gm they will avg over 6500 fans next yr. Offense and pace matters. Know many of you do not seem to give a hoot about it but it matters if you want to grow your base. I agree people want to see uptempo exciting basketball but what they want the most is wins. Most of our successful teams (really all of them) were up and down the court teams. The bottom line is we simply don't have the horses to do it this year. Jamion is trying to win games the best he can this year and that's what good coaches do. Looking at his scoring averages with KenPom tempo at MSM - 12-13: 69.8 (107) 13-14: 75.9 (39) 14-15: 63.1 (276) 15-16: 67.2 (145) 16-17: 67.9 (245) 17-18: 72.8 (325) We probably won't playing super fast but he's got a winning formula when you get some horses in here (Burns, Carey, Pickett plus Richard and the incoming frosh). I think we'll average in the mid 70's and have a tempo in the 180-220 range. The key will be getting extra turnovers through the Mayhem system. If you protect the ball well (which we already do) and create turnovers (which we don't) his system will work.
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IndianSaint
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Post by IndianSaint on Jan 22, 2019 19:47:12 GMT -5
I can’t remember if I already posted this or if it’s just what I’ve been thinking while reading this thread but I’m finding it very enjoyable watching this year’s Siena team play basketball. I have not found it “thought to watch” in the slightest bit. Maybe I’m in a minority but I really don’t think the title of this thread has much to do with how Siena’s actually playing (as a team) this season (especially with what they have injuries wise). JMO
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bigfan
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Post by bigfan on Jan 22, 2019 19:49:07 GMT -5
Whatever the tempo has been, I am really enjoying watching this team, this year.
As a whole, they don't have the firepower that we all crave, but they play hard and move the ball pretty well. They are also very disciplined, right down to putting the brakes on even the most obvious of fast break opportunities (bummer). Clearly, this year's team is well coached to limit possessions, which I agree with for this group, generally.
Losses are frustrating, as always, but there is so much to enjoy...
Pickett: What can you say - he resembles a freshman in exactly ZERO ways. Could play in any conference. I hope he stays all 4 years. Fisher: Finishing his career on a seriously upward trajectory. He should be proud and I'm thankful we have him this season. Degnan: Shooting well over 40% from three, playing surprising defense for his size at the perimeter. If you tell me you saw this coming for him, I'll tell you you're full of sh*t! Seymour: Great stroke and room to grow his game - an important piece going forward. Let it Fly Sloan! Camper: Best athlete on the team, I think. Great nose for the ball and very versatile - he can literally play every position, if needed. GREAT glue guy. Smithen: What can you say about that last game? High energy athlete who has added crucial depth to this year's team - maybe has a few more surprises in store for us this year. Darwiche: His highlights got me excited - his first appearances made me go back and look at the highlights again as I was questioning my sanity. It's nice to see him settling in and becoming an asset on both ends of the court. Tchougang: Seemingly serendipitous walk-on thrust into duty via Friday injury - fun to root for while Evan sits down and waits for his lungs to stop bleeding Ratliff: Looking forward to his return as he provides another shooting threat and adds a bit of quickness at the perimeter in relief of Degnan or Seymour.
I hope Sammy is able to come back this year; if not, maybe he gets a redshirt.
For all the guys who aren't logging a bunch of game minutes, they all seem to be engaged and I'm sure are working their butts off on a daily basis to help this team be better.
All these things combined with an overtly positive attitude infused into the players by JC and staff make this team eminently likable for me this year.
Go Saints!!
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saints22
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Post by saints22 on Jan 22, 2019 20:46:48 GMT -5
Whatever the tempo has been, I am really enjoying watching this team, this year. As a whole, they don't have the firepower that we all crave, but they play hard and move the ball pretty well. They are also very disciplined, right down to putting the brakes on even the most obvious of fast break opportunities (bummer). Clearly, this year's team is well coached to limit possessions, which I agree with for this group, generally. Losses are frustrating, as always, but there is so much to enjoy... Pickett: What can you say - he resembles a freshman in exactly ZERO ways. Could play in any conference. I hope he stays all 4 years. Fisher: Finishing his career on a seriously upward trajectory. He should be proud and I'm thankful we have him this season. Degnan: Shooting well over 40% from three, playing surprising defense for his size at the perimeter. If you tell me you saw this coming for him, I'll tell you you're full of sh*t! Seymour: Great stroke and room to grow his game - an important piece going forward. Let it Fly Sloan! Camper: Best athlete on the team, I think. Great nose for the ball and very versatile - he can literally play every position, if needed. GREAT glue guy. Smithen: What can you say about that last game? High energy athlete who has added crucial depth to this year's team - maybe has a few more surprises in store for us this year. Darwiche: His highlights got me excited - his first appearances made me go back and look at the highlights again as I was questioning my sanity. It's nice to see him settling in and becoming an asset on both ends of the court. Tchougang: Seemingly serendipitous walk-on thrust into duty via Friday injury - fun to root for while Evan sits down and waits for his lungs to stop bleeding Ratliff: Looking forward to his return as he provides another shooting threat and adds a bit of quickness at the perimeter in relief of Degnan or Seymour. I hope Sammy is able to come back this year; if not, maybe he gets a redshirt. For all the guys who aren't logging a bunch of game minutes, they all seem to be engaged and I'm sure are working their butts off on a daily basis to help this team be better. All these things combined with an overtly positive attitude infused into the players by JC and staff make this team eminently likable for me this year. Go Saints!! Well said. Can't wait to see who disagrees with all or part of it!
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gorvy
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Post by gorvy on Jan 22, 2019 20:48:51 GMT -5
I would of course prefer more but 67 points in a win is much better than 61 in an OT loss. What was more important to me as fan of being aggressive with both offensive and defensive hoop was that they were actually trying more often than not to look for opportunities to push the ball up the floor and looking for their shot early in the shot clock. Unless they get in to the big dance every year winning ugly, if you all think that winning no matter what (in the 50's/low 60's) will draw "new" fans, you are delusional. If they go 12-6 in MAAC play scoring 58-63 pts p/gm and make it to the MAAC final they will still draw less than 6000 actual fans per game next year. If they have that same record and reach the MAAC Final next yr scoring 75-80 pts p/gm they will avg over 6500 fans next yr. Offense and pace matters. Know many of you do not seem to give a hoot about it but it matters if you want to grow your base. . Wins matter, pace has nothing to do with attendance. Last year Syracuse had one of the slowest offenses in the country and ranked second in the nation in attendance.
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Post by Tony on Jan 23, 2019 6:23:34 GMT -5
Wins matter much more than pace. If this team tried to run, and increase total possessions, it would get blown out most nights. Anyone complaining about pace this year doesn’t have a clear understanding about Siena’s current talent level. I am enjoying the heck out of watching this over achieving bunch. Always easy to root for the underdog. Siena is currently the least athletic team in the MAAC and probably one of top 5 least athletic D1 teams in the country. When you are playing PL and Ivy team and they are more athletic than you, tells you all you need to know. Despite that, this staff has the team competitive most nights. That’s called good coaching!! If next year at this time we are having same conversation, then you might have a point. For now enjoy the wins and don’t sweat the losses. Help is on the way as soon as next season!!
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jan 23, 2019 7:57:51 GMT -5
☝️THIS
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mike60
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Post by mike60 on Jan 23, 2019 8:13:01 GMT -5
If this team is as unathletic and non division 1 ability wise, then Jalen is a superstar given his stats. Particularly his assist stats and assist to turn over ratio. One must realize who has to score in order for him to get an assist. A non athletic, non division 1 player. Jalen is very good, but I think some of you are quite harsh in judging the abilities of some of these players. Desire, heart, and hard work are an important part of a player along with natural ability. Maybe more important in the long run.
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Post by Tony on Jan 23, 2019 8:45:10 GMT -5
If this team is as unathletic and non division 1 ability wise, then Jalen is a superstar given his stats. Particularly his assist stats and assist to turn over ratio. One must realize who has to score in order for him to get an assist. A non athletic, non division 1 player. Jalen is very good, but I think some of you are quite harsh in judging the abilities of some of these players. Desire, heart, and hard work are an important part of a player along with natural ability. Maybe more important in the long run. Mike I dont necessarily disagree with you on a single individual player. And please note I never said every player was a non D1 kid-- Evan Fisher and Degnan are clearly having good years. But overall team athleticism is very important at College level - that's what separates high majors from mid and low majors- what separates D1 from D2 players. I've said many times on this board, kids in D2 or even D3 can really play. Do you think for 1 second D2 kids can't play? -- go watch a d3 game and watch RPI shoot 23 for 25 from the line and tell me those kids can't play - of course they can, but that doesnt mean they are D1 players, Don't kid yourself, overall team athleticism is extremely important at the D1 level. Take for example a kid that played here last year Jordan Horn-- a lot of you guys really liked him. Is a good kid, and can shoot like nobody's business- but he didnt have D1 speed, he transfers to N Dakota state and is like 9th man on a mediocre summit conference team . Did Jordan forget how to play? Of course not, he just doesnt have the athleticism to defend his position at D1 level. Trust me when I tell you this Siena team is one of the least athletic in D1. Normally when you see a MAAC team play a NEC, PL or Ivy league team warm up- just from warm ups you can tell what team is the MAAC team, or if you see a MAAC team play a high major-- you can tell what team the high major is before they even tip off the game. A team with well below avg athleticism is never going to win the MAAC.
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Post by Tony on Jan 23, 2019 8:52:52 GMT -5
And "Oh" BTW I'd be remiss if I didnt add Jalen is a superstar- he is having one of the best freshmen seasons in MAAC history and doing it surrounded by very little talent. He is doubled teamed, has a bad finger and still putting up incredible numbers . I used to give KK a hard time on stats, but if you go just by the stats, Jalen is absolutely the best player in conference, His overall numbers are mind boggling, 1st in min played, 5th in field goals made, 6th in field goal pct.9th in 3 point field goals made, 10th in offensive rebounds, 1st ( by a wide margin in assists) 2nd in steals, 9th in blocked shots, 6th in total points,9th in scoring , Player Efficiency Rating 1st, Effective Field Goal Percentage 6th, Assist Percentage 1st ( by wide margin) Points Produced 1st by large margin, Points Produced Per Game 1st, Offensive Rating 2nd Offensive Win Shares 1st by large margin, Win Shares 1st, Offensive Box Plus/Minus 1st by large margin, overall Box Plus/Minus 1st
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nolesaint
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Post by nolesaint on Jan 23, 2019 8:55:56 GMT -5
Wins matter much more than pace. If this team tried to run, and increase total possessions, it would get blown out most nights. Anyone complaining about pace this year doesn’t have a clear understanding about Siena’s current talent level. I am enjoying the heck out of watching this over achieving bunch. Always easy to root for the underdog. Siena is currently the least athletic team in the MAAC and probably one of top 5 least athletic D1 teams in the country. When you are playing PL and Ivy team and they are more athletic than you, tells you all you need to know. Despite that, this staff has the team competitive most nights. That’s called good coaching and total team buy-in to the plan!! If next year at this time we are having same conversation, then you might have a point. For now enjoy the wins and don’t sweat the losses. Help is on the way as soon as next season!! Added one nugget to your spot on post.
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mike60
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Post by mike60 on Jan 23, 2019 10:02:12 GMT -5
I wasn't criticizing you Tony or your analysis of the season. You do a great job. Nor was I not in anyway denigrating Jalen's accomplishments I was simply pointing out that there are other elements that come into play when judging the players on a team than simply athletic ability. As for the coach he is exactly my type of coach. But here again you have to have players willing to buy in to his philosophy. This team has done both that and played with desire and heart. By the way, if Jalen can do what he has done this year,I can't imagine what he will do next year.
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OneIndian
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Post by OneIndian on Jan 23, 2019 10:06:36 GMT -5
This is what I’ve been saying since JC stepped foot on campus what we’re seeing is a complete 180 and an entirely new culture.
The roster is buying in, teammates get along and they function as a cohesive unit. It all stems from hard work, preparation and leadership and this staff has it in spades.
As others have said, this team maybe lacking in certain areas but they are definitely keeping games competitive and are enjoyable to watch.
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Papi
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Post by Papi on Jan 23, 2019 12:15:25 GMT -5
I will say the games have been competitive and close due to a super slowed down version of Mayhem and Pickett is a potential great. As for enjoyable to watch I will respectfully disagree. It's painful to watch at times except for a barrage of threes made in runs. And then suffering through 5-7 minutes of not scoring. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, nothing I've seen so far has been a thing of beauty but there is always next year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 13:13:07 GMT -5
I will say the games have been competitive and close due to a super slowed down version of Mayhem and Pickett is a potential great. As for enjoyable to watch I will respectfully disagree. It's painful to watch at times except for a barrage of threes made in runs. And then suffering through 5-7 minutes of not scoring. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, nothing I've seen so far has been a thing of beauty but there is always next year. Disssmissssed!
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