Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Feb 22, 2018 15:25:09 GMT -5
You know, I wasn't going to say anything due to the Echo chamber nature of this board now but ...
Given the way the season has played out, I am all for giving Prince every minute he can get. Needs a lot of work on back to the basket post play (though he had 2 very nice moves last night for baskets) but he is pretty good when he gets the ball facing and moving towards the basket.
His rebounding has improved, he is the best defender of the 3 post players on the roster, has pretty good lateral movement and can seriously get off the ground. He is, simply put, the best freshman post player the Saints have had since Haddix was a freshman. I don't know that he'll develop like some of the others (Rossiter, OD, JO) but there is no reason to believe that he won't.
He absolutely needs to work on his free throw shooting, OD hit less than 40% both his freshman and soph years before improving to mid to upper 50's as an upperclassman. Nothing says that he couldn't see the same kind of improvement with continued effort.
As Tony always says, post players see the most improvement from freshman to soph year. I like the investment in the future.
As always, just my 2 cents.
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Feb 22, 2018 15:27:12 GMT -5
Little recap from view Kids gave it their all, it wasn’t good enough You can’t shoot it 45% from the line and expect good results You can’t turn the ball over 14 and give up layups You can’t coach not to lose You need to adjust, going to Prince in the flow of the offense in the 1st half worked, the last 10 minutes of the second half was poorly coached. It was obvious to all but Jimmy that trying to pound it into Prince to the point of slowing your offense to a crawl wasn’t working but yet we spent 10 minutes trying. Such a frustrating team to watch. To add insult to injury watching DArg strut around like he hasn’t a care in the world makes my skin crawl. Fishers 0 for 3 from the line (including the front end of a 1 and 1) was particularly painful (and surprising given his free thrown shooting this year) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 15:27:55 GMT -5
At this point, strategy is mostly out the window. There are only so many soldiers left in this army once a couple guys get in foul trouble. I was only half watching most of the night but I know Smithen got 3 fouls pretty early so maybe that had something to do with it? There was some logic to it, they had spent most of the game pounding it inside and getting all of the Fairfield bigs in foul trouble. Putting the three bigs in at once while they were shorthanded in terms of size created huge mismatches. Unfortunately, Evan won't even post up when he's got 8 inches on the man guarding him and Fairfield immediately took advantage of the mismatch in speed and got an open look from 3. Jimmy then wisely abandoned that experiment. Yeah, Fisher would shoot the jumper or fade away even if the guy was 4 foot 3. |
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Feb 22, 2018 15:38:30 GMT -5
There was some logic to it, they had spent most of the game pounding it inside and getting all of the Fairfield bigs in foul trouble. Putting the three bigs in at once while they were shorthanded in terms of size created huge mismatches. Unfortunately, Evan won't even post up when he's got 8 inches on the man guarding him and Fairfield immediately took advantage of the mismatch in speed and got an open look from 3. Jimmy then wisely abandoned that experiment. Yeah, Fisher would shoot the jumper or fade away even if the guy was 4 foot 3. He did make a post move and got fouled by FF's point guard. Unfortunately, he then missed the free throws.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 15:46:09 GMT -5
You know, I wasn't going to say anything due to the Echo chamber nature of this board now but ... Given the way the season has played out, I am all for giving Prince every minute he can get. Needs a lot of work on back to the basket post play (though he had 2 very nice moves last night for baskets) but he is pretty good when he gets the ball facing and moving towards the basket. His rebounding has improved, he is the best defender of the 3 post players on the roster, has pretty good lateral movement and can seriously get off the ground. He is, simply put, the best freshman post player the Saints have had since Haddix was a freshman. I don't know that he'll develop like some of the others (Rossiter, OD, JO) but there is no reason to believe that he won't. He absolutely needs to work on his free throw shooting, OD hit less than 40% both his freshman and soph years before improving to mid to upper 50's as an upperclassman. Nothing says that he couldn't see the same kind of improvement with continued effort. As Tony always says, post players see the most improvement from freshman to soph year. I like the investment in the future. As always, just my 2 cents. The only difference I'd bring up here is that guys like RyRo and Anosike didn't get the time and weighed only like 190 when the first got here. It took them time to bulk up in combination with getting more PT. However, even before putting on all that muscle they were better rebounders than Oduro...both in HS and as frosh. Anosike and RyRo were averaging like 15-17 RPG in highschool and 8 rebs per 30 min as frosh. Oduro is already bigger and stronger NOW and is getting 2 to 3 less boards per 30 min played. Also, FT shooting didn't really change much for them from HS to senior. JO was the only one who really improved significantly but I think it was mostly just that his # of attempts evened things out. He was always like a 60%+ FT shooter in HS. Prince Oduro is merely doing the same things he did in highschool. Look at his FIBA world cup stats. SAME EXACT Points per Shot as he's had all season...1.12. Unlike some of the others, Oduro needs to not only adjust to the level but always improve his actual skills. Prince has a lot to work on. But if the guy improved enough to grab 2 more boards a game and shot 55% from the FT line...he'd be a beast. |
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Feb 22, 2018 15:51:25 GMT -5
yeah, no one is saying he is a finished product but, if you want to get a feel for how good he is perceived to be, just look at how teams defend him. The next time Fisher or Friday get double teamed will be the first while a lot of teams run guys at PO and he has shown the ability to recognize and pass out of it.
RyRo had a hobbled Josh Duell in front of him and he couldn't beat him out for time.
He probably will never be as skilled as Rossiter or have the motor the OD had but, I believe, the guy will be a monster by the time he is a senior.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 16:00:21 GMT -5
yeah, no one is saying he is a finished product but, if you want to get a feel for how good he is perceived to be, just look at how teams defend him. The next time Fisher or Friday get double teamed will be the first while a lot of teams run guys at PO and he has shown the ability to recognize and pass out of it. RyRo had a hobbled Josh Duell in front of him and he couldn't beat him out for time. He probably will never be as skilled as Rossiter or have the motor the OD had but, I believe, the guy will be a monster by the time he is a senior. If he made 55% of his FTs or shot 60% from the field, he'd be a decent offensive big. Right now, the numbers say he's not very good on either side of the ball. I know he'll improve. The question is how much and how painful is it for Siena on his way to get there. Right now, the poor PPS from the front court is killing us. Even crappy offensive bigs have a 1.3 PPS. His is 1.12. That's only a handful of shots better than Maurice White was as a frosh. You could even deal with low PPS if he rebounded, blocked a lot of shots, and avoided turnovers....but he's below average in all those too right now. He needs to work hard this summer. Very hard. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 16:04:15 GMT -5
yeah, no one is saying he is a finished product but, if you want to get a feel for how good he is perceived to be, just look at how teams defend him. The next time Fisher or Friday get double teamed will be the first while a lot of teams run guys at PO and he has shown the ability to recognize and pass out of it. RyRo had a hobbled Josh Duell in front of him and he couldn't beat him out for time. He probably will never be as skilled as Rossiter or have the motor the OD had but, I believe, the guy will be a monster by the time he is a senior. He gets doubled so much because he's the starting center and so-so has put out the game plan on his twitter feed #forceitinsidebeforeanyshot |
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Quackman
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Post by Quackman on Feb 22, 2018 16:15:58 GMT -5
yeah, no one is saying he is a finished product but, if you want to get a feel for how good he is perceived to be, just look at how teams defend him. The next time Fisher or Friday get double teamed will be the first while a lot of teams run guys at PO and he has shown the ability to recognize and pass out of it. RyRo had a hobbled Josh Duell in front of him and he couldn't beat him out for time. He probably will never be as skilled as Rossiter or have the motor the OD had but, I believe, the guy will be a monster by the time he is a senior. He gets doubled so much because he's the starting center and so-so has put out the game plan on his twitter feed #forceitinsidebeforeanyshot Actually, that isn't what they are trying to do. They want to the ball to go inside to get the defense to react. That could be to a center but just as easily could be to a wing at the foul line. Once the ball is inside the perimeter defense a whole lot of good things can happen. That want to establish their bigs early to get them into the flow of the game and, hopefully, get some easy baskets. Used to be that everyone complained that the Saints (especially under Mitch) passed the ball around the perimeter too much. Oh, and Fisher and Friday have gotten plenty of post touches when the opposing team did not double. |
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$cott
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Post by $cott on Feb 22, 2018 16:44:29 GMT -5
He gets doubled so much because he's the starting center and so-so has put out the game plan on his twitter feed #forceitinsidebeforeanyshot Actually, that isn't what they are trying to do. They want to the ball to go inside to get the defense to react. That could be to a center but just as easily could be to a wing at the foul line. Once the ball is inside the perimeter defense a whole lot of good things can happen. That want to establish their bigs early to get them into the flow of the game and, hopefully, get some easy baskets. Used to be that everyone complained that the Saints (especially under Mitch) passed the ball around the perimeter too much. Oh, and Fisher and Friday have gotten plenty of post touches when the opposing team did not double. Problem is they are never getting it in to the high post. Way too often they are getting it to the low post by the baseline where a bank shot is virtually impossible and there are limited passing options. If they want to play two bigs then they need that guy they can get the ball to at the high post who can make things happen. Lavon was fantastic in that role and Brett was very good at well. There is little reason that Evan couldn't at least be competent in that role and Huerter could probably thrive there but they rarely get them the ball there. Even Shivers would probably be a lot more useful there. |
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Post by Tony on Feb 22, 2018 19:49:39 GMT -5
Stags adjusted to PO last night, in the 2nd half they tried to deny him the ball sometimes with player in back and in front .. rather than adjust Jimbo tried to force ball inside anyway - often resulting in turnover or bad shot when shot clock ran down
Penn was best freshmen this year- but no other player on roster has the "upside" Prince has - His defense has improved tremendously as year has worn on, his rebounding has improved . Very unusual for a freshmen big at this level to play min PO did. If he can get over 50% on FT line we will have something. This team has a lot of problems PO was a bright spot
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bbfan
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Post by bbfan on Feb 23, 2018 2:01:08 GMT -5
Stags adjusted to PO last night, in the 2nd half they tried to deny him the ball sometimes with player in back and in front .. rather than adjust Jimbo tried to force ball inside anyway - often resulting in turnover or bad shot when shot clock ran down Penn was best freshmen this year- but no other player on roster has the "upside" Prince has - His defense has improved tremendously as year has worn on, his rebounding has improved . Very unusual for a freshmen big at this level to play min PO did. If he can get over 50% on FT line we will have something. This team has a lot of problems PO was a bright spot Unfortunately didn't deserve all those minutes though, that's part of the problem. |
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Post by Tony on Feb 23, 2018 5:31:17 GMT -5
Stags adjusted to PO last night, in the 2nd half they tried to deny him the ball sometimes with player in back and in front .. rather than adjust Jimbo tried to force ball inside anyway - often resulting in turnover or bad shot when shot clock ran down Penn was best freshmen this year- but no other player on roster has the "upside" Prince has - His defense has improved tremendously as year has worn on, his rebounding has improved . Very unusual for a freshmen big at this level to play min PO did. If he can get over 50% on FT line we will have something. This team has a lot of problems PO was a bright spot Unfortunately didn't deserve all those minutes though, that's part of the problem. who would you play- unfortunately due to weak recruiting we dont have much- and please dont say 2 min man Sammy. |
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